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21 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It's just how they wanted it to work from the beginning.

It's an errata, but they don't want to put out an errata, so they issued a ruling that's definitely not just an errata trust me, that doesn't eliminate the errata's need to consult the web to know how your card works but also adds a new element of making random unrelated rules confusing.

Can Quickdraw just make unlimited bonus attacks now? It doesn't say she can't. FFG please just give an errata it's fine, the forums will be angry and make a 9 page thread complaining about it but this is even worse

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18 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

In your games, was there a critical mass in having multiple copies of selfless or was just Biggs and one copy enough?

My own experiments said two selfless was better than three. Gone back to one copy to further evaluate since the game pieces have changed. Also curious whether Luke > Wedge + Torpedo in these squad configurations...

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Oh, c'mon.  That's not an intent to buff the bomber.  (Really?  And an intent to buff Deathfire?)  It's just how they wanted it to work from the beginning.  If they really wanted to buff the Resistance Bomber, you don't think there's a more straightforward way to do it?  (There is.)

I think this is probably right.

I think it's more likely they revise the rules reference entry than they reverse the ruling.

*e* and it would be preferable for FFG to do one or the other, sooner rather than later.

Edited by theBitterFig

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1 hour ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

In your games, was there a critical mass in having multiple copies of selfless or was just Biggs and one copy enough?

I only had three guns, so Biggs and Selfless -- and me rolling a crit on every attack -- was enough.  His Wedge with Swarm Tactics did work.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, svelok said:

Can Quickdraw just make unlimited bonus attacks now? It doesn't say she can't. FFG please just give an errata it's fine, the forums will be angry and make a 9 page thread complaining about it but this is even worse

There is a direct and official rule in the rules reference on page 6 that bonus attacks are limited to one per round:

Quote

A ship can perform only one bonus attack per round.

 

Edited by GreenDragoon
rule

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7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

There is a direct and official rule in the rules reference on page 6 that bonus attacks are limited to one per round:

"Each ship can drop or launch only one device per round."

Maybe that line will be omitted whenever we actually get the new rules reference? But until then, the ruling just kinda takes a line in the rulebook and says "nah".

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3 minutes ago, svelok said:

"Each ship can drop or launch only one device per round."

Maybe that line will be omitted whenever we actually get the new rules reference? But until then, the ruling just kinda takes a line in the rulebook and says "nah".

There's a difference.

The bomb rule is a general rule broken by a card.

The bonus attack rule says, "When the "one attack per ship" standard is broken by a card, it can still only be broken once."

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12 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

There is a direct and official rule in the rules reference on page 6 that bonus attacks are limited to one per round:

 

There's also a direct bit that says bombs are limited to 1/round

Does this mean SF Gunner QD can 2 die front, 2 die back, lose a shield, and then shoot 2 more times?

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3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There's a difference.

The bomb rule is a general rule broken by a card.

The bonus attack rule says, "When the "one attack per ship" standard is broken by a card, it can still only be broken once."

To play devil's advocate: the bomb rule is broken by the ruling, not directly by the card. They should have put it on the card.

But I completely agree with you and think this case is sufficiently clear.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

To play devil's advocate: the bomb rule is broken by the ruling, not directly by the card.

I disagree.  The cards that break the "one bomb rule" are just the same as those cards that break the general "one attack" rule.  The difference is that the cards that are not intended to break the "one bomb rule" say so: "if you have not already dropped or launched a device this round."  Whereas the cards that break the "one attack" rule -- the general rule, not the "bonus attack" rule -- don't need to be more specific, because the "bonus attack" rule already exists.

They could have had a "bonus bomb" rule.  But they didn't do that, probably because bonus bombs were always going to be much less common than double-taps.

What they did need to do, and didn't, is be more consistent when talking about bonus attacks.  If every attack beyond the standard one attack is intended to be a bonus attack, as they've ruled, they should have said so.  (I'm glad they ruled that way, but it's sloppy.)

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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31 minutes ago, impspy said:

For real tho; as much as I prefer HS I don't see the point to it existing if all the higher-tier events are extended.

Same, actually.

They'll need to super buff the new factions to keep up in Extended, but I'd rather we all just be playing the same game.

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34 minutes ago, impspy said:

For real tho; as much as I prefer HS I don't see the point to it existing if all the higher-tier events are extended.

So at least some of your games are about dials instead of cards?

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1 minute ago, jagsba said:

So at least some of your games are about dials instead of cards?

I find it really funny that they even say that in the article.

Quote

 With fewer ships available than in the Extended Game Mode, the Hyperspace Game Mode makes it easier for newer players to compete on level footing, and you'll find—once again—a greater emphasis on the game's fundamental skills.

 

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I would love to see HS gone for good and point changes made more often, like every 3 months for example, while keeping open the option to do emergency fix if something silly comes out.

But for having it working, FFG needs to be good at communicating and there are few hopes on that sense sadly...

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I mean, I prefer hyperspace and I would have liked to play that at worlds, but I am not against this, and we all saw this coming too, even if we didn’t want it lol. most the worlds invites come from system opens which are extended.

I think we all looked forward to having multiple formats and In the game but saw the cancer of the original point spread, had months of it to practice, and narrowed it down to an unfun meta. So of course a simpler more balanced format like hyperspace is fun, especially after that. But One point balance already fixed many early issues and we will have a second, not to mention all 7 factions(I know the disparity is huge but there will still probably be some power lists from those factions) maybe by the time worlds comes around this year all the bugs won’t be fixed, but by next year extended could be super balanced and more fun. 

What I would like to see is a worlds level event that is hyperspace, and maybe even a qualifier event for another limited format. This is the first year of this game, I bet they are going to be open to change things up based on feed back from this year

x wing is a new game again and it may never look like the old game, it’s sad in a way but worlds may never be the same event, but maybe something better could be in the works

idk maybe I’m just having a good day and looking at the cup half full of beer

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1 hour ago, TheOz said:

I mean, I prefer hyperspace and I would have liked to play that at worlds, but I am not against this, and we all saw this coming too, even if we didn’t want it lol. most the worlds invites come from system opens which are extended.

I think we all looked forward to having multiple formats and In the game but saw the cancer of the original point spread, had months of it to practice, and narrowed it down to an unfun meta. So of course a simpler more balanced format like hyperspace is fun, especially after that. But One point balance already fixed many early issues and we will have a second, not to mention all 7 factions(I know the disparity is huge but there will still probably be some power lists from those factions) maybe by the time worlds comes around this year all the bugs won’t be fixed, but by next year extended could be super balanced and more fun. 

What I would like to see is a worlds level event that is hyperspace, and maybe even a qualifier event for another limited format. This is the first year of this game, I bet they are going to be open to change things up based on feed back from this year

x wing is a new game again and it may never look like the old game, it’s sad in a way but worlds may never be the same event, but maybe something better could be in the works

idk maybe I’m just having a good day and looking at the cup half full of beer

Balance is all well and good. But I want a game where I set better dials to win. Not pick better card combos. Hyperspace is way closer to that than extended is. 

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FFG should want Hyperspace to be their premier format because the relevance of new ships is higher. There are fewer ships in the format so the power level is lower. Highlighting new ships should be an important factor for them. In extended, the likelihood that they get lost in the crowd is much higher. For the players, Hyperspace is more level power-wise. For the most prestigious event of the game, you'd think skill should be the most determining factor. I don't understand a lot of their decision making and it seems like they just shoot from the hip.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jagsba said:

Balance is all well and good. But I want a game where I set better dials to win. Not pick better card combos. Hyperspace is way closer to that than extended is. 

I do agree and I do like hyperspace more, but remember the last system open was won by rebel beef not card combos, outside of leia who is in hyperspace. It was beef on beef in the final to be exact. And if you look at the top cut, there is a lot of hyperspace stuff In there.

we could possibly be in a post points hangover from old extended to new extended, sure it’s not perfect yet but with another points balance it could get better, I mean you can price some things way up

also remember balance means if he brought the “card combo” and you bring a bunch of ships, y’all should still have a good game? Like mAybe there is a world where both the card player and the dial guy can co-exist? And both have fun?

2 hours ago, AceWing said:

FFG should want Hyperspace to be their premier format because the relevance of new ships is higher. There are fewer ships in the format so the power level is lower. Highlighting new ships should be an important factor for them. In extended, the likelihood that they get lost in the crowd is much higher. For the players, Hyperspace is more level power-wise. For the most prestigious event of the game, you'd think skill should be the most determining factor. I don't understand a lot of their decision making and it seems like they just shoot from the hip.

I do agree hyperspace does make more sense with these new factions and ease of balance...obviously ffg is still trying to figure out how to do things right in 2.0,

I say we shouldn’t freak out if they don’t get it right the first time. As disappointing as it is, this is the first time with multiple formats. I am sure they want to please everyone as much as possible, that’s why they should have a qualifier for both, kind of a worlds for extended and a worlds for hyperspace, and extended is connected to system opens, and hyperspace is connected to regionals. 

stay vocal about your feelings so they can hear it, but maybe things will get better without necessarily being what you would do(hypothetical “you”, not calling anyone out)

 

but to be clear I would have loved hyperspace worlds...I’m just staying positive because we really only have one data point for extended post points and it actually resembles hyperspace results in archetypes for sure

Edited by TheOz

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4 hours ago, AceWing said:

FFG should want Hyperspace to be their premier format because the relevance of new ships is higher. There are fewer ships in the format so the power level is lower. Highlighting new ships should be an important factor for them. In extended, the likelihood that they get lost in the crowd is much higher. For the players, Hyperspace is more level power-wise. For the most prestigious event of the game, you'd think skill should be the most determining factor. I don't understand a lot of their decision making and it seems like they just shoot from the hip.

a Isn't it then at least positive to see them not driven by corporate greed?

b) I also think Hyperpsace is the better format for competitive events. But I acknowledge that there are reasons speaking for extended. So to call it "shoot[ing] from the hip" is a bit much imo.

 

Here's how I'd justify it, even though that doesn't reflect my opinion:

Who goes to worlds? Only good players, nobody else. There is no raffle this year where little Timmy is suddenly staring down the best of the world. No, this time all the players going to worlds are top. Switching to extended has several effects:

1) The worlds meta will be extremely different from their qualifying event, even if they got the ticket in a System Open
2) There is barely any (large) event to practice extended beforehand
3) They can't be too open about their lists because only few will attend, and most hard data will be from hyperspace events
-> 4) No or at least much less netlisting
-> 5)  All skills in the game, including list building, are now tested

And so on. To make it short, the switch to extended really tests those players who want to be world champ, and forces them out of their comfort zone to earn the title. They have to be more innovative, swifter in their thinking and rely more on general experience, as opposed to relying on their meta-specific experience with a certain list against certain lists.

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34 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

a Isn't it then at least positive to see them not driven by corporate greed?

b) I also think Hyperpsace is the better format for competitive events. But I acknowledge that there are reasons speaking for extended. So to call it "shoot[ing] from the hip" is a bit much imo.

 

Here's how I'd justify it, even though that doesn't reflect my opinion:

Who goes to worlds? Only good players, nobody else. There is no raffle this year where little Timmy is suddenly staring down the best of the world. No, this time all the players going to worlds are top. Switching to extended has several effects:

1) The worlds meta will be extremely different from their qualifying event, even if they got the ticket in a System Open
2) There is barely any (large) event to practice extended beforehand
3) They can't be too open about their lists because only few will attend, and most hard data will be from hyperspace events
-> 4) No or at least much less netlisting
-> 5)  All skills in the game, including list building, are now tested

And so on. To make it short, the switch to extended really tests those players who want to be world champ, and forces them out of their comfort zone to earn the title. They have to be more innovative, swifter in their thinking and rely more on general experience, as opposed to relying on their meta-specific experience with a certain list against certain lists.

That's a great idea and all but we have just one problem.... 

Phantoms 

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