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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

What do you mean by "40% of precut data missing"?

Seems like I may have slightly misread this "The 25 most frequent ship combinations (not exactly archetypes) from the 599 lists of the recent trials (they add up to 60% of all lists)".

 

Did you mean that the other 40% of lists didn't fit one of your archetypes? 

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1 minute ago, powersink said:

Seems like I may have slightly misread this "The 25 most frequent ship combinations (not exactly archetypes) from the 599 lists of the recent trials (they add up to 60% of all lists)".

 

Did you mean that the other 40% of lists didn't fit one of your archetypes? 

I meant that I had cut it off at 25 archetypes for practical reasons. But I have all 138 different combinations, even if 25 make up 60%, and the other 113 just 40%

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6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

One example I've found without digging is GhostFenn at 22% of all rebel lists, but I don't have the number about how many rebel lists were played. I think it went as high as 40%, and that would put GhostFenn at 9% overall.

There is a local player I like and respect who told me he played Ghost/Fenn because if he didn't post enough wins his "elite player" friends mocked him really hard.  He wasn't joking about this; it clearly genuinely got to him.  I didn't really follow up much with questions, mostly because I was overcome with sadness, but one that I did ask was, " ... You're playing Ghost/Fenn to avoid mockery?"

Even at its worst -- and despite this anecdote -- 1E was not horrible with broken-list-players.  And it's better in 2E.  I'm not really sure why, but if pressed I think "social pressure not to do it" is becoming more acceptable.  (As it should be.  Gaming is a social activity.  Social pressure on behavior is important in social activities.)

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21 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There is a local player I like and respect who told me he played Ghost/Fenn because if he didn't post enough wins his "elite player" friends mocked him really hard.  He wasn't joking about this; it clearly genuinely got to him.  I didn't really follow up much with questions, mostly because I was overcome with sadness, but one that I did ask was, " ... You're playing Ghost/Fenn to avoid mockery?"

Even at its worst -- and despite this anecdote -- 1E was not horrible with broken-list-players.  And it's better in 2E.  I'm not really sure why, but if pressed I think "social pressure not to do it" is becoming more acceptable.  (As it should be.  Gaming is a social activity.  Social pressure on behavior is important in social activities.)

I find your surprise a bit amusing. It sounds to me like he was in a "win at all costs, only use the most optimum" min max circle of friends. Playing anything but the current "best" makes you less than human to them... They are disturbingly common, at least from what I've encountered.

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24 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I find your surprise a bit amusing. It sounds to me like he was in a "win at all costs, only use the most optimum" min max circle of friends. Playing anything but the current "best" makes you less than human to them... They are disturbingly common, at least from what I've encountered.

I know them, I've seen them, but I don't think they're that common, honestly.  (And I think they're less so in 2E.  So far.)

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Just now, Jeff Wilder said:

I know them, I've seen them, but I don't think they're that common, honestly.  (And I think they're less so in 2E.  So far.)

I was referring to groups like that in general, not just in X-Wing :). Any more common than extinct is too common in my book...

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32 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I find your surprise a bit amusing. It sounds to me like he was in a "win at all costs, only use the most optimum" min max circle of friends. Playing anything but the current "best" makes you less than human to them... They are disturbingly common, at least from what I've encountered.

Honestly those are B Tier players. Not to say the A tier don't bring the broken stuff, but they make no personal judgements on people not bringing them. They usually do it once to try it out and then never again (see Dash/Roark at PAX)

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5 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo is good. 

Are the people ready to believe yet?

I feel like folks are going to play Jedi, discover that the Force is good actually, then start flying older pilot they've overlooked.  I'd expect Seventh Sister and Kylo to rise in folks opinions.

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23 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I feel like folks are going to play Jedi, discover that the Force is good actually, then start flying older pilot they've overlooked.  I'd expect Seventh Sister and Kylo to rise in folks opinions.

I really want to see the hypothesis of "people are now addicted to Leia even at the old 8 points price" tested in July.

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15 minutes ago, svelok said:

I really want to see the hypothesis of "people are now addicted to Leia even at the old 8 points price" tested in July.

I mean I was using her at 8. Not as much, maybe, but she’ll still see the table after gaining a few points.

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55 minutes ago, svelok said:

I really want to see the hypothesis of "people are now addicted to Leia even at the old 8 points price" tested in July.

I definitely have been wondering about that. 6 points is a big difference in what the squad can include, but not that people know how,it works and can get the most out of it, I bet there are still some winning squads at 8.  It might be niche, but it's really not a trash level card at 8 points. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, svelok said:

I really want to see the hypothesis of "people are now addicted to Leia even at the old 8 points price" tested in July.

It helps that Y wings went down in cost as well (I think). 

In addition, since the most common ship she is on is a U-Wing, I don't think it's insignificant that she changed that ship's cost, and thus the minimum bar for including her, from 51 points to 45.  That also changed the value of the ship she is on from around a 15-20% increase to just around 4%, depending on which pilot she is with.    There may be something to that 25% of a list threshold (being that she is usually seen in 4 ship lists) which suddenly makes her a much more valuable target for the opponent.   That's all just theory, of course, but it does change your opponent's win condition since she goes from unlikely to being the most valuable ship in your list to one of the most valuable.

Edited by AlexW

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7 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There is a local player I like and respect who told me he played Ghost/Fenn because if he didn't post enough wins his "elite player" friends mocked him really hard.  He wasn't joking about this; it clearly genuinely got to him.  I didn't really follow up much with questions, mostly because I was overcome with sadness, but one that I did ask was, " ... You're playing Ghost/Fenn to avoid mockery?"

Even at its worst -- and despite this anecdote -- 1E was not horrible with broken-list-players.  And it's better in 2E.  I'm not really sure why, but if pressed I think "social pressure not to do it" is becoming more acceptable.  (As it should be.  Gaming is a social activity.  Social pressure on behavior is important in social activities.)

 

6 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I know them, I've seen them, but I don't think they're that common, honestly.  (And I think they're less so in 2E.  So far.)

 

6 hours ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Honestly those are B Tier players. Not to say the A tier don't bring the broken stuff, but they make no personal judgements on people not bringing them. They usually do it once to try it out and then never again (see Dash/Roark at PAX)

just quoting all of this at once because it makes me sad.

 

Personally, i'm more likely to have made more fun of a friend who played ghost/fenn and didn't win the event.  Who cares how many wins you get - someone playing whatever they want is great.  It's the "do whatever you want on the bottom tables" but for competitive play - the people going to events and having fun are the ones actually winning the most...

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4 hours ago, Brunas said:

 

 

just quoting all of this at once because it makes me sad.

 

Personally, i'm more likely to have made more fun of a friend who played ghost/fenn and didn't win the event.  Who cares how many wins you get - someone playing whatever they want is great.  It's the "do whatever you want on the bottom tables" but for competitive play - the people going to events and having fun are the ones actually winning the most...

I should caveat that I don't personally know anyone who judges people for playing what they want. We'll talk about matchups and tweaks and I love throwing together stupid squads that *may* work and I get honest feedback. But there isn't negativity, just love and honest critique.

 

Duncan would have done just as well taking a legal list to day 2 of Krayt Cup - good players are good players.

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Play what you want, don't mock others for doing the same.

Pretty simple mantra that we drive into our club. Some people will play the degenerate crap, and as a team, we decided that if we want to kick on, and start posting good results at big tournaments, we need to start playing with, and against the big bads in the meta.

That said, we are all in on hyperspace, and the big bads in that format seem much less bad than in others.  Play what you like, fly it often, and make good choices and you will see an improvement in results.

 

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8 hours ago, svelok said:

I really want to see the hypothesis of "people are now addicted to Leia even at the old 8 points price" tested in July.

For what is worth, I’m not sure 8 or correct or anything, I just think the genie is out of the bottle on leia.

like, I’ve seen suggestions of +2 points, and I think almost every squad that plays her can easily adjust to +2... so a real nerf would have to be higher, which inherently approaches the original price pointDuncan would have done just as well taking a legal list to day 2 of Krayt Cup - good players are good players.

21 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Duncan would have done just as well taking a legal list to day 2 of Krayt Cup - good players are good players.

Maybe - but I wouldn’t know. I’ve only seen him play Roark dash and double ups QD.

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2 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

The jump from 5 to 6 would be the real breakpoint for Leia: at that point she no longer fits in a 4X/b+Leia list.

Given that the cheapest Leia carrier is 43 points, you could only fit 3 Bs or Xs anyway, right?

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9 hours ago, svelok said:

I really want to see the hypothesis of "people are now addicted to Leia even at the old 8 points price" tested in July.

Having a Defender switch every third round seems good at 2 points. I think she is the starting point for Rebel builds (though I don't know from direct experience, just from indirect (4'-0" away).

Defender's pay more than two points for that ability. Pro tip: good Defender pilots don't use it more than every third round either.

7 hours ago, AlexW said:

It helps that Y wings went down in cost as well (I think).

Agreed, Vet Turret Gunner down [2] to 6 points helped too.

This must have been something they simply wanted spammed....

 

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