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1 hour ago, Brunas said:

I'm looking at ion cannon GUNBOATS at the moment, not really sure how it'll work out.

 

Linked battery is good? telling miranda I'm too good for her bombs, enjoy a range 1 fully modded kylo shot also seems good?

Linked Battery is good, not super important against Miranda, but nice against other stuff.  

Nu, Ion Cannon, Harpoon, Assault Title, Linked Batteries, Long Range Sensors = 27 points.  Two is 54, enough left for some Kylo. You could drop Linked Batteries, drop Harpoons and add Manglers to get 2 points each, or just drop the Linked for 2 points.  You could also downgrade to Flechette to get the title benefit and free up 1 point each.  Stress is almost as good as Ion against Miranda, but not as great against everyone else.  

There are options, though.  

Edited by Biophysical

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Just to go on what they were talking about in today's podcast about that guy having triple Wookies be his "casual" list.

I'm fairly new to playing and only have core sets and ships from the OT so I know they are not a competitive option but wanted to go to a game store for the first time. And what is my first ever match after telling the guy I'm new to X-wing? Miranda Nym.

I've been listening to podcasts for the past few months this and am familiar with popular lists. This was right after the most recent FAQ and his reasoning was "I just want to see if adding EI is still a viable option". Uh yeah dude that list is going to trash my PS8 Poe, Tycho, and ion Y-wing jank.

After he dumpstered me he made the comment about how he still think that list is still super good like that game was confirmation that it was. 

Not only that I had to remind him how to play the game, rules,  and how some card interactions worked. Like does he only like playing because he's winning? 

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Thanks to the Silencer there are about to be a TON of amateur  "ace" players who probably dont really know how to move last let alone move first.  There was the beginnings of hidden content buried deep deep beneath the salty ground surface layer of this weeks edition of planet Krayt. 

1. Moving First Correctly with High PS 

2. Useful Solo Practice

Uncharted territory here...but any chance of elaborating on these two topics for a couple minutes in a future episode? 

tumblr_inline_o8e3ztckZ01sufcc2_500.gif

 

Edited by Boom Owl

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13 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Thanks to the Silencer there are about to be a TON of amateur  "ace" players who probably dont really know how to move last let alone move first.  There was the beginnings of hidden content buried deep deep beneath the salty ground surface layer of this weeks edition of planet Krayt. 

1. Moving First Correctly with High PS 

2. Useful Solo Practice

Uncharted territory here...but any chance of elaborating on these two topics for a couple minutes in a future episode? 

tumblr_inline_o8e3ztckZ01sufcc2_500.gif

 

I wouldn’t even mind a “moving last at high ps with repositioners”.

 

I know I’m a scrub, but Chris and Duncan talking about 2 banks was super interesting. I never really tried Aces much, and that made me a bit interested in at least trying it. 

Edited by AEIllingworth

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9 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I wouldn’t even mind a “moving last at high ps with repositioners”.

 

I know I’m a scrub, but Chris and Duncan talking about 2 banks was super interesting. I never really tried Aces much, and that made me a bit interested in at least trying it. 

Thats probably relevant to especially with so much advanced sensors and FAA and coordinate and threat tracker and scum echo barrel rolls and other fun stuff changing the usual formula a bit.

As for moving first what I have been doing recently since mandalore is intentionally taking initiative in games I shouldnt just to practice on hard mode.

Edited by Boom Owl

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32 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Thanks to the Silencer there are about to be a TON of amateur  "ace" players who probably dont really know how to move last let alone move first.

 

The quote a couple of podcasts back about how the first couple rounds of a tournament are people jamming powerful lists they don't fully understand into each other holds true.  This is how I got my big pile of challenge coins back in waves 7-9. 

1. Fly 5 Omega Squadrons with Weapons Guidance and Crack Shot.

2. Set up to joust, and watch people fly into me (Optional step for opponent- Confusion there not being Howlrunner) 

3. Wait for your opponent to complain about my dice/their dice (fun fact, WG+Focus is 99.15% as effective than Howl+Focus on 2 dice) 

4. Repeat until end of event, collect coin.

Their main issue for Ace players back then (and I'm guessing what bad ace players now will do) was they would try to get behind my swarm by K-turning after trading shots for one turn. (Which led to failure, as they don't get to live that long) Now, I guess it will be a horde of VI Kylos that don't get what the good thing about the Silencer is. 

I'm not really sure what the point of this rant was, but if you want to at least have a positive record at any event, fly something that is very good at jousting. 

 

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4 hours ago, Biophysical said:

On top of this, Poe is looking to be pretty solid with Advanced Optics, and Black One blunts Miranda's alpha strike hard.  With supporting ships getting the benefit of FAA, trip T70s might move up a tier.  I don't have a ton of confidence in it, but it's worth a second look with the new options, I think

I've been doing better with Black Squadron (Jess/Snap/Poe) than the aces (Wes/Wedge/Poe).  Both are fun as **** to fly, but probably entirely too wholesome.

51 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

I'm listening to the current episode. Miranda fix:

Bomblet Generator: Scurgg only. 

Fixed. 

The vastness of space is littered with the debris of destroy K-Wings. The real fix is already applied...most of us get Miranda killed all the time. 

This latest episode plus the talk about cheating...I can see how people who have been in the game a long time, particularly playing at a high level, can get down on it.  How does one reconcile the joy of winning verses the joy of playing?  It sure seems like they're mutually exclusive for a lot of folks in the podcast community.

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3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Linked Battery is good, not super important against Miranda, but nice against other stuff.  

Nu, Ion Cannon, Harpoon, Assault Title, Linked Batteries, Long Range Sensors = 27 points.  Two is 54, enough left for some Kylo. You could drop Linked Batteries, drop Harpoons and add Manglers to get 2 points each, or just drop the Linked for 2 points.  You could also downgrade to Flechette to get the title benefit and free up 1 point each.  Stress is almost as good as Ion against Miranda, but not as great against everyone else.  

There are options, though.  

Linked batteries is insane, I can't believe it's only two points honestly.  It's predator for two points, but much more importantly you can put it one whatever you want.  28 point HLC linked LRS gunboats hit harder than lone wolf dash, which is nonsense.  I'm not sure it's enough?

But man, why not just have the best of both worlds with the ion cannon and the harpoon?  That seems really good.  But yeah, I'm also looking at ion linked gunboats.  24 points seems like a bargain, and maybe more importantly, cheaper than Biggs.

3 hours ago, delrustymar said:

Just to go on what they were talking about in today's podcast about that guy having triple Wookies be his "casual" list.

I'm fairly new to playing and only have core sets and ships from the OT so I know they are not a competitive option but wanted to go to a game store for the first time. And what is my first ever match after telling the guy I'm new to X-wing? Miranda Nym.

I've been listening to podcasts for the past few months this and am familiar with popular lists. This was right after the most recent FAQ and his reasoning was "I just want to see if adding EI is still a viable option". Uh yeah dude that list is going to trash my PS8 Poe, Tycho, and ion Y-wing jank.

After he dumpstered me he made the comment about how he still think that list is still super good like that game was confirmation that it was. 

Not only that I had to remind him how to play the game, rules,  and how some card interactions worked. Like does he only like playing because he's winning? 

This is a real problem I think.  Winning is solely equated with fun.  If a new player comes in and wants a game, I have push tie advanceds ready to go.  Trip aces? Push Vader, Juno, and Maarek.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Thanks to the Silencer there are about to be a TON of amateur  "ace" players who probably dont really know how to move last let alone move first.  There was the beginnings of hidden content buried deep deep beneath the salty ground surface layer of this weeks edition of planet Krayt. 

1. Moving First Correctly with High PS 

2. Useful Solo Practice

Uncharted territory here...but any chance of elaborating on these two topics for a couple minutes in a future episode? 

tumblr_inline_o8e3ztckZ01sufcc2_500.gif

 

Listener 4 is currently in production, and hopefully hits both of those (at a higher level, not a turn by turn what to do).

 

I do want to stream some vassal games with a live twitch chat at some point, but I'm not really sure how that should work.  Seriously though the silencer is brain overload.  If I can be anywhere, where do I even want to be? It's trip jumps all over again.  I'm not sure it'll happen immediately, but I expected we see some dedicated players do things that can only be labeled degenerate eventually.

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Bomblet should've always been like Gonk. You should be extremely careful when designing a card that turns a once limited resource limitless. They sort of hit both ends of the spectrum in Wave 11. Unguided Rockets are just a tad underpowered, whereas Bomblets are way too good.

Of course that alone won't fix Miranda because she'll just put those points into C-3PO and become even more annoying to kill. Throw a Harpoon on her and you're good. God, could you imagine a Miranda backed by C-3PO AND Lowhhrick? The only reason people aren't doing it is because Bomblet is better.

 The problem with Miranda is sort of the problem with the Jumpmaster, she just does everything.

EDIT: Oh crap, I just realized you can fit C-3PO in the existing build. Miranda with TLT, 3PO, Harpoon, Bomblet, LRS alongside DtF Lowhhrick and R4-D6 Biggs is just barely 100 pts. Maybe that's what beats other Mirandas?

Edited by defkhan1

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5 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

 

EDIT: Oh crap, I just realized you can fit C-3PO in the existing build. Miranda with TLT, 3PO, Harpoon, Bomblet, LRS alongside DtF Lowhhrick and R4-D6 Biggs is just barely 100 pts. Maybe that's what beats other Mirandas?

I apparently don't listen hard enough, because I did a solo game last night against EgoMk3, ust to get a little more familiarity, and this is the version I built.  

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6 hours ago, Brunas said:

Linked batteries is insane, I can't believe it's only two points honestly.  It's predator for two points, but much more importantly you can put it one whatever you want.  28 point HLC linked LRS gunboats hit harder than lone wolf dash, which is nonsense.  I'm not sure it's enough?

But man, why not just have the best of both worlds with the ion cannon and the harpoon?  That seems really good.  But yeah, I'm also looking at ion linked gunboats.  24 points seems like a bargain, and maybe more importantly, cheaper than Biggs.

Harpoon is more limited than the HLC because of the engagement limitations and the fact that LRS is only on one ship.  It does seem like a nice, flexible build, though.  The Linked Batteries are nice with the Ion Cannon, because if you hit, moving to Range 1 next turn gives you a pretty solid primary shot when slow bleeding from ions isn't really optimal.

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6 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

EDIT: Oh crap, I just realized you can fit C-3PO in the existing build. Miranda with TLT, 3PO, Harpoon, Bomblet, LRS alongside DtF Lowhhrick and R4-D6 Biggs is just barely 100 pts. Maybe that's what beats other Mirandas?

I'm wondering if this is what beats other Mirandas.

Nice 3-hit missile that effectively did nothing, bruh!

Lowhhrick (28)
Draw Their Fire (1)

Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
C-3PO (3)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Fenn Rau (Sheathipede) (20)
Adaptability (0)
Weapons Engineer (3)
M9-G8 (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Edited by gennataos

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9 hours ago, gennataos said:

I've been doing better with Black Squadron (Jess/Snap/Poe) than the aces (Wes/Wedge/Poe).  Both are fun as **** to fly, but probably entirely too wholesome.

The vastness of space is littered with the debris of destroy K-Wings. The real fix is already applied...most of us get Miranda killed all the time. 

This latest episode plus the talk about cheating...I can see how people who have been in the game a long time, particularly playing at a high level, can get down on it.  How does one reconcile the joy of winning verses the joy of playing?  It sure seems like they're mutually exclusive for a lot of folks in the podcast community.

You know the reason for quoting people it to talk about their comments, right?

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19 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

You know the reason for quoting people it to talk about their comments, right?

Man, these forums are programmed... poorly. If you start a reply, close it, don’t clear your cookies, and start a new comment it tries to throw your quote from the first one on top and off the screen on mobile.  I can see a lot of nonsensical garbage that I recognize from forum hiccups that I barely avoided. 

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28 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

You know the reason for quoting people it to talk about their comments, right?

Uh...I did talk about you comment.  (I just quoted you again!)  "The vastness of space is littered with the debris of destroy[ed] K-Wings. The real fix is already applied...most of us get Miranda killed all the time."

It's true.  Most people who fly Miranda get her killed all of the time, myself included.  High level players might bemoan that there are other high level players which can keep Miranda alive forever, but for mere mortals, she's not easy mode.  Focus fire kills her.  Blocking her kills her.  Ioning her kills her.  Stressing her kills her.  Go ahead and remove the bomblet from her arsenal, then every Miranda will have C-3P0 and probably a harpoon missile.  I don't think you'd see her any less. 

I'm not sure how the last episode got on a "**** Miranda" tilt.  Was it because @Brunas tried to figure out how to kill her with a Silencer and couldn't?

Edited by gennataos

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36 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Uh...I did talk about you comment.  (I just quoted you again!)  "The vastness of space is littered with the debris of destroy[ed] K-Wings. The real fix is already applied...most of us get Miranda killed all the time."

It's true.  Most people who fly Miranda get her killed all of the time, myself included.  High level players might bemoan that there are other high level players which can keep Miranda alive forever, but for mere mortals, she's not easy mode.  Focus fire kills her.  Blocking her kills her.  Ioning her kills her.  Stressing her kills her.  Go ahead and remove the bomblet from her arsenal, then every Miranda will have C-3P0 and probably a harpoon missile.  I don't think you'd see her any less. 

I'm not sure how the last episode got on a "**** Miranda" tilt.  Was it because @Brunas tried to figure out how to kill her with a Silencer and couldn't?

It's because the 'correct' strategy for the 100 pt miranda build (Miranda, Lowhrick, and [usually] biggs) is to move slow, stay in formation, and not overly commit to shots or rocks (the 'bank back to the board edge' comment).

This is because the damage the list can take in most circumstances (and I do mean most) is very low due to Miranda regen and the lowhrick evade, even with incoming ordinance, because you cannot follow up that shot with primaries because of biggs (allowing Miranda another 2 turns of regen).

You cannot follow the list due to TLT and bombs+sabine damage, you rarely can joust it due to Miranda's Harpoon and the other two shots (it doesn't matter if they're hyper accurate), and that the list will survive long enough that it is likely that the 100 pt miranda list kills enough of your list via bombs/TLT/primaries that, even *if* you kill Biggs and lowhrick, Miranda is worth more than the remaining ships in your list, and thus wins on time (catching a miranda that doesn't want to be caught is very difficult for most lists, and then you add the regenerating TLT).

So, yeah - that's what we meant.

If you break formation, or over-commit to rocks for your opponent (such as bumping or scraping rocks) so now miranda, biggs, or especially lowhrick do not have actions, your survivability drops precipitously.


All of that said, the strategy I just laid out is usually a very boring style of play for most people, and I, at least, believe that is the reason why we don't see more success of the style of list en masse: it's boring, and is not "playing x-wing" like most people envision playing x-wing. It's also why you saw people pick up FSR2, and go through the rocks and break formation: because that feels like x-wing, but was counter-productive for winning with the list.

Edited by Tlfj200
clarification

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1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

It's because the 'correct' strategy for the 100 pt miranda build (Miranda, Lowhrick, and [usually] biggs) is to move slow, stay in formation, and not overly commit to shots or rocks (the 'bank back to the board edge' comment).

This is because the damage the list can take in most circumstances (and I do mean most) is very low due to Miranda regen and the lowhrick evade, even with incoming ordinance, because you cannot follow up that shot with primaries because of biggs (allowing Miranda another 2 turns of regen).

You cannot follow the list due to TLT and bombs+sabine damage, you rarely can joust it due to Miranda's Harpoon and the other two shots (it doesn't matter if they're hyper accurate), and that the list will survive long enough that it is likely that the 100 pt miranda list kills enough of your list via bombs/TLT/primaries that, even *if* you kill Biggs and lowhrick, Miranda is worth more than the remaining ships in your list, and thus wins on time (catching a miranda that doesn't want to be caught is very difficult for most lists, and then you add the regenerating TLT).

So, yeah - that's what we meant.

If you break formation, or over-commit to rocks for your opponent (such as bumping or scraping rocks) so now miranda, biggs, or especially lowhrick do not have actions, your survivability drops precipitously.


All of that said, the strategy I just laid out is usually a very boring style of play for most people, and I, at least, believe that is the reason why we don't see more success of the style of list en masse: it's boring, and is not "playing x-wing" like most people envision playing x-wing. It's also why you saw people pick up FSR2, and go through the rocks and break formation: because that feels like x-wing, but was counter-productive for winning with the list.

So I have been experimenting alot with harpoons lately against various "hard" to hit lists like Timewalk Assaj, Double Evade Kanan, Ego, etc. 

IF Draw Their Fire was once per round they would occasionally work against Ego when targeting Miranda round 1.   
 

Any version of Ego that has selflessness on Biggs instead of R4D6 completely negates everything here since the exchange probably results in a bunch of wasted missiles. 

 
Edited by Boom Owl

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44 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:



All of that said, the strategy I just laid out is usually a very boring style of play for most people, and I, at least, believe that is the reason why we don't see more success of the style of list en masse: it's boring, and is not "playing x-wing" like most people envision playing x-wing. It's also why you saw people pick up FSR2, and go through the rocks and break formation: because that feels like x-wing, but was counter-productive for winning with the list.

It's fortunate, perhaps, that there isn't a significant prize structure in X-wing.  It keeps the game mostly for fun, because there's a limited pool of players who:

1.)  Like winning enough to play boring stuff for 10+ hours.

2.)  Are willing to pay 100+ dollars in travel, food, and lodging expenses to do it.

If you had $1000 purses at regionals, I bet you'd see this sort of thing more.  I think, I think, most people trying hard to win want to prove something about themselves, and "not playing X-wing" doesn't really prove anything. 

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1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

It's fortunate, perhaps, that there isn't a significant prize structure in X-wing.  It keeps the game mostly for fun, because there's a limited pool of players who:

1.)  Like winning enough to play boring stuff for 10+ hours.

2.)  Are willing to pay 100+ dollars in travel, food, and lodging expenses to do it.

If you had $1000 purses at regionals, I bet you'd see this sort of thing more.  I think, I think, most people trying hard to win want to prove something about themselves, and "not playing X-wing" doesn't really prove anything. 

So no significant prize support/purses is a feature?  Well played FFG. 

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Just now, Biophysical said:

It's fortunate, perhaps, that there isn't a significant prize structure in X-wing.  It keeps the game mostly for fun, because there's a limited pool of players who:

1.)  Like winning enough to play boring stuff for 10+ hours.

2.)  Are willing to pay 100+ dollars in travel, food, and lodging expenses to do it.

If you had $1000 purses at regionals, I bet you'd see this sort of thing more.  I think, I think, most people trying hard to win want to prove something about themselves, and "not playing X-wing" doesn't really prove anything. 

I think that's exactly right.

I'm going to Pax South. I will not play 100 pt miranda for so many reasons, but high on the list is that I'm not going to travel to hate the game. Even getting the top prizes mostly just covers travel anyway if one were to sell the prizes.

I think that, usually, one can find a list that is competitive enough that they *also* enjoy playing. The game suffers when that is not true.

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1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

It's fortunate, perhaps, that there isn't a significant prize structure in X-wing.  It keeps the game mostly for fun, because there's a limited pool of players who:

1.)  Like winning enough to play boring stuff for 10+ hours.

2.)  Are willing to pay 100+ dollars in travel, food, and lodging expenses to do it.

If you had $1000 purses at regionals, I bet you'd see this sort of thing more.  I think, I think, most people trying hard to win want to prove something about themselves, and "not playing X-wing" doesn't really prove anything. 

I'm forgetting when we released what, but I think it's listener 4 we hit on this. There will always be sometime that likes winning enough to play "the best" list even if it's not fun, which means everyone is stuck playing things that are that good, regardless of whether or not it's enjoyable.

 

Obviously we aren't rational actors and favor things we'll enjoy instead anyways, but the tragedy of the commons is still there.

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2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm forgetting when we released what, but I think it's listener 4 we hit on this. There will always be sometime that likes winning enough to play "the best" list even if it's not fun, which means everyone is stuck playing things that are that good, regardless of whether or not it's enjoyable.

 

Obviously we aren't rational actors and favor things we'll enjoy instead anyways, but the tragedy of the commons is still there.

To elaborate, the things that are "competitive enough" actually need to be "competitive enough." 

If the difference between "S-tier" and "A-tier", or "A-" tier is too large, then a person can come with what normally should still be competitive "enough," but actually just gets dumpsters by some small subset of lists.

Feeling like there's nothing you can do also isn't fun (even if your list *is* fun).

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2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm forgetting when we released what, but I think it's listener 4 we hit on this. There will always be sometime that likes winning enough to play "the best" list even if it's not fun, which means everyone is stuck playing things that are that good, regardless of whether or not it's enjoyable.

 

Obviously we aren't rational actors and favor things we'll enjoy instead anyways, but the tragedy of the commons is still there.

There is a difference between "I'm a pretty good player and showed up, played well, and so played a couple triple Wookie lists over the course of the day" and "I'm a pretty good player, went 3-3, and played 4 of my games final salvoing fortressing wookies".

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