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11 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Rebels didn't exist competitively. It was palp aces, deadeye scouts, and attani mindlink, and the scouts won more than the others. The only list you could consider running competitively was kannan /Biggs and maybe dash+ Or miranda+ but they still weren't sure things. Jake/Han made a small showing later in the meta but it was about like RAC/ whisper, who did not have Kylo to buddy up with at the time, but was better than any rebel list because you had original palp. If you were lucky these were top 16 lists for the ones that flew them. 

This where the cheese of auto blaster accuracy corrector double tap  phantom, and other nasty jank was born out of spite because they had what felt like nothing left.

you could argue it was worse for rebels in wave 8 than it was for imps in wave 11, but to me it looked about the same, except having 11 waves instead of 8 means the imps had some more options to play with. 

Ah, I get it, and I can see where the salt comes from.  Between the FAQ and harpoon missiles, formation-flying archetypes, particularly Rebels, are pretty much in the dumpster.  If I put my own stamp on a list which gained worldwide popularity and was nuked after only two months of viability, it'd be pretty bummed, too. 

I'm far more sad about harpoon missiles than the Biggs nerf...I've used a range 1-restricted pilot in most of my lists (Ahsoka, Jess, Lowhhrick and even Airen), and they all get **** on by harpoons now. 

I'm optimistic there will still be plenty of Rebel options, though.  The tactician/breach wookies will help suppress the triumphant return of Soontir an/or RAClo dominance.  Lean bomblet/TLT Miranda is not to be trifled with and can fit with a ton of stuff (like, oh, I don't know...two Predator/Commando wookies).  I also have (false?) hope that Rey can finally make a push to the forefront.

I will tell you this, @catachanninja...you're my spirit animal on this podcast and I'd be super sad to see you go.  I hope you find the joy!

Edited by gennataos

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I'm not sure I quite grok the whole "getting attached to a list" thing.  Is this another thing, like "I only play one faction," that comes from having played other miniatures games?  (I only ever played one other miniatures game.)

One of the things that makes me shake my head, when I'm arguing for or against a nerf, is the person I'm arguing against saying I "must be a [insert faction here] player."  Nope.  I play them all, pretty much equally, and I don't stick with a list beyond one or two tournaments.  I just would like a game in which most or all of the cards are non-laughably playable.

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19 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I'm not sure I quite grok the whole "getting attached to a list" thing.

I wouldn't put words in anyone's mouth about getting attached to a list.  I wasn't really suggesting that @catachanninja's salt is because he's attached to his list.  He even said earlier that he's primarily bothered by how he sees the meta shifting.  I wouldn't blame him if he was salty about his list, though.  

I can definitely understand people being attached to an archetype, though.  Someone might excel at flying in formation and not so much flying otherwise or visa versa.

I do play only Rebels.  It's not necessarily because of loyalty to the faction.  I just picked a faction when I started and decided I'd stick with Rebels and only Rebels to help limit my spending and my list options.  I can't get to all of the Rebel lists I want to fly...it would drive me batty to have that list multiplied by three.

Edited by gennataos

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Yeah, it isn’t about getting attached to a ship, or even a faction. I think I do my best with swarms, but all my Swarm practice feels like a bit of wasted effort. 

 

All the formation flying four ship rebel skill probably became worth a bit less overnight, and that sucks. I still think it is good for the game, but some people are definitely caught in the crossfire. 

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Well, as far as junking formations (mostly Rebels), Biggs isn't a death-blow, but Harpoon Missiles are objectively terrible design.  I know playtesters -- I was one, and some of the group I led still does it -- and there is no way they didn't speak up against Harpoon Missiles.  Sometimes it just doesn't matter what playtesters say.  (To be clear, I'm stating that as opinion, rather than fact.  Per NDA, we don't discuss playtesting any longer.)

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This probably isn't ideal (what is?), but I'm thinking that to a degree, Harpoons can be mitigated by positioning.  

I won't just tritely shout "Rule of 11", but it should pretty heavily inform your planning.  Say you're flying in formation with 4 Rebel ships.  You could lead with one out in front. If the opponent goes fast, you they maybe nuke a quarter of your squad (maybe), but it's out of range of the rest of your squad, so the slash isn't in effect, the worst of the damage is done, and you're in the game.  

Alternatively, you start spread out, maybe 1.5 bands between ships.  On approach, maybe one gets nuked (or not, depending on how the squads move), but the rest converge at close range.  

This is mostly of the mindset of T70s, as that is one of the few Rebel ships I'm reasonably familiar with, but I think it could work with some preparation.  

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7 hours ago, gennataos said:

Ah, I get it, and I can see where the salt comes from.  Between the FAQ and harpoon missiles, formation-flying archetypes, particularly Rebels, are pretty much in the dumpster.  If I put my own stamp on a list which gained worldwide popularity and was nuked after only two months of viability, it'd be pretty bummed, too. 

I'm far more sad about harpoon missiles than the Biggs nerf...I've used a range 1-restricted pilot in most of my lists (Ahsoka, Jess, Lowhhrick and even Airen), and they all get **** on by harpoons now. 

I'm optimistic there will still be plenty of Rebel options, though.  The tactician/breach wookies will help suppress the triumphant return of Soontir an/or RAClo dominance.  Lean bomblet/TLT Miranda is not to be trifled with and can fit with a ton of stuff (like, oh, I don't know...two Predator/Commando wookies).  I also have (false?) hope that Rey can finally make a push to the forefront.

I will tell you this, @catachanninja...you're my spirit animal on this podcast and I'd be super sad to see you go.  I hope you find the joy!

I also think Rey( and paired with chips Miranda) will be solid until wave twirteen drops.

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Okay, I have a dumb theory. I’m not sure where you are going with listener 4, but I think playtesting problems are due to the long lead time. 

 

I have nothing to back this up, but the assumption is that not every playtester is on every product, and they may be testing with a wave at the printer. For example, the Fangs and Shadowcaster may have been tested before the Jumpmaster and its upgrades (attanni) were even available, and to luck into testing that you would have had to been a playtester on both products. 

 

Is that not the case? I really have no idea. 

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50 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

Who do I have to talk to about getting people to call the four spectrum list “Fur Ship Rebel”? It has the bonus of when somebody misspells it “Fir Ship Rebel” it is still a tree joke!

 It's cute but quad wookie is also short and sufficiently informative, which is the main goal

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