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7 minutes ago, Brunas said:

TL;DR hard problem, I don't have a good answer :(

I'm not sure anybody has a good solution, really, except trying to keep people happy. Yeah, the really big companies blow lots of money on it, but most gaming companies can't afford that. I doubt FFG can.

My own experience as an event organizer for <game not mentioned> were out of pocket, except the major conventions such as Origins and GenCon. These we received some hotel re-imbursement if we put in enough hours of work, and received some product at a discount. We got a t-shirt to wear so we could be identified, but only the repeats ended up with enough shirts to last the entire weekend. Later years they started introducing better shirts (bowling shirt over top/badges/yay! dice to a game.. I have never played...) but I just ran down and didn't like some of the changes to how things were run. Not saying they were bad changes, but just not something I wanted to involvement myself in further as it was becoming a job instead of fun.

Really, FFG needs to do a better job at keeping guys like @Killerardvark happy. I'm not sure what they can do financially, but a happy organizer goes a long way to coming back and doing it again. In my mind this means not leaving them in a lurch with weird rules, keeping events fun, giving them something for their time, and making sure to thank these guys directly. It's not enough, but it helps.

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1 hour ago, drjkel said:

According to the rules, spectators have to bring it up to a judge who can then act.

this doesn't answer my question.

Would you be pissed off if it was a spectator bringing up both you and your opponent forgot an Harpooned! trigger?

I like to think that the vast majority of the players would prefer to have a judge pointing out gamestate mistakes when they spot them. What's the difference if, instead of a judge, was a spectator pointing them out? Isn't it trivial compared to a forgotten harpooned! trigger?

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18 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

this doesn't answer my question.

Would you be pissed off if it was a spectator bringing up both you and your opponent forgot an Harpooned! trigger?

I like to think that the vast majority of the players would prefer to have a judge pointing out gamestate mistakes when they spot them. What's the difference if, instead of a judge, was a spectator pointing them out? Isn't it trivial compared to a forgotten harpooned! trigger?

You should be able to trust a judge to be impartial.

It is an unpleasant experience when younare playing and your opponent is talking to someone in a language you don‘t understand, for example. He might be getting tips, who knows?

Similarly, if a „random“ spectator mentions a missed trigger: how do you know he‘s not just pointing out triggers that are against you but he keeps quiet if a missed must would be against his friend?

There is some more trust towards officials because they are official, wear nametags and should be impartial.

 

edit: that being said, I believe I would welcome it, and so far I always did.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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2 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

this doesn't answer my question.

Would you be pissed off if it was a spectator bringing up both you and your opponent forgot an Harpooned! trigger?

I like to think that the vast majority of the players would prefer to have a judge pointing out gamestate mistakes when they spot them. What's the difference if, instead of a judge, was a spectator pointing them out? Isn't it trivial compared to a forgotten harpooned! trigger?

It does answer what the rules say about it. Other players are supposed to keep it to themselves, spectators are supposed to tell a judge. This allows for more impartial interventions in games, since you don't get teams covering each other while solo players are left off to fend for themselves.

I personally think that's BS, that this is just a game and everyone should aim for it to be fun and fair, but that doesn't change the rules.

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2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You should be able to trust a judge to be impartial.

It is an unpleasant experience when younare playing and your opponent is talking to someone in a language you don‘t understand, for example. He might be getting tips, who knows?

Similarly, if a „random“ spectator mentions a missed trigger: how do you know he‘s not just pointing out triggers that are against you but he keeps quiet if a missed must would be against his friend?

There is some more trust towards officials because they are official, wear nametags and should be impartial.

Nothing stops a spectator to bring to the judge only what he prefers thought, we are back at square one here.

Obviously everyone should be able to trust a judge more than a spectator, but in case of blatant game state mistake, does it really matter from where the correction come from? I'll use myself as example here, but I would always prefer to lose a corrected game rather than win an incorrect game. I know by your previous posts that you share this feeling, but I'm starting to think not so many others do.

 

I was also assuming the spectator in question would be pointing it out in a language understandable by both players, otherwise you are right that it shouldn't happen and that's bad. At international events I always ask question to my friends in english to make sure to their opponents I'm not giving them strategic info instead of asking about what were we planning to do for the launch break.

Just now, drjkel said:

It does answer what the rules say about it. Other players are supposed to keep it to themselves, spectators are supposed to tell a judge. This allows for more impartial interventions in games, since you don't get teams covering each other while solo players are left off to fend for themselves.

I personally think that's BS, that this is just a game and everyone should aim for it to be fun and fair, but that doesn't change the rules.

I wasn't asking for what the rules say, at this point I'm pretty sure everyone posting on the matter are well aware of what they do.

I also think that it doesn't even achieve what you are saying since nothing prevents a team to follow the rules and only report to the judge what they choose to

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1 minute ago, Sunitsa said:

Nothing stops a spectator to bring to the judge only what he prefers thought, we are back at square one here.

Good point.

It depends on the size of the event and stage whether a judge can stick around a bit. In my specific case he watched almost the entire game, and he was also sitting at the final table for example. Earlier rounds... yeah, no chance. But there are also far less spectators if everyone is playing.

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29 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I wasn't asking for what the rules say, at this point I'm pretty sure everyone posting on the matter are well aware of what they do.

I also think that it doesn't even achieve what you are saying since nothing prevents a team to follow the rules and only report to the judge what they choose to

As a TO, I gotta say that what the rules say is kind of important in official tournaments, however dumb they may be. At kit tournaments, I use those mistakes as teaching moments even for the next table over, in store champs and above, I don't, unless acting as TO in that moment (or if some player, for some reason, thinks that bending the rules to beat a kid is worth it).

Having to go through a judge makes it much harder for a team to actively affect many games at once, since there's only so many things a judge can handle at once. What it does achieve is limit straight up BS spun by a group all agreeing to a stance that may not be valid without having a judge weigh in. I know I skipped going to tournaments with my son when I felt like the atmosphere was likely to turn into "in crowd" vs "not". People take their plastic spaceships really seriously...

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44 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Nothing stops a spectator to bring to the judge only what he prefers thought, we are back at square one here.

Obviously everyone should be able to trust a judge more than a spectator. 

This is definitely tricky. I was in an odd situation watching a close friend playing quad TLT in the cut of a SC. Towards the end of a game where both players were playing quickly, he only fired 7/8 tlt shots. This isn't a missed opportunity since tlt's double tap isn't a may. On the one hand I didn't want to point this out in case it would be biased. But if I'd gone to a judge, by the time he came out from behind the till and over to the table it would have likely been way too late to matter. 

In this case it probably made 0 difference (the shot was on regen auto thrusters poe) but if it were important what should I have done? 

These things often need correcting soon after they are missed but judges are so often overworked and busy, at all levels of play. 

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11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I found a new favorite build:

Jake with PTL, Outmaneuver, Cruise, Title, Autothrusters for 35points.

He can easily adjust his arc by taking a focus, then shoots a double modded 5dice missile against a target with -1 agility. So. Much. Fun!

Jake Farrell (24)
Push the Limit (3)
Proton Rockets (3)
Outmaneuver (3)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Wedge Antilles (29)
Expertise (4)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Jan Ors (25)
Adaptability (0)
Twin Laser Turret (6)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

 

the question is... Ion Cannon turret and Nein Numb instead of TLT... only because I think the extra greens are incredibly important on that crap dial. 

 

Amazing... that Jake is more expensive than Norra, who I usually have sitting in that slot. 

Edited by Wiredin

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"Snap" Wexley (28)
Intensity (2)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)

Jake Farrell (24)
Push the Limit (3)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Outmaneuver (3)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17)
Snap Shot (2)
Tactician (2)
R3-A2 (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Snap has always his 1-2 repositions and a focus. Torpedoes are just because I have the points. Maybe Low with 31pt with selflessness and Rey?

The reason I prefer cruise @Wiredin is that Jake mitigates one of the big weaknesses that other pilots have. Jake can go 4-5 straight and then cover even more ground, AND adjust his arc, eg going around a rock, and then on top get a TL to double mod his shot. Outmaneuver is just icing on the cake.

I'm not so happy with Ezra here. Gunner would probably be better, or maybe even Hera to keep up with the other two.

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14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

"Snap" Wexley (28)
Intensity (2)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)

Jake Farrell (24)
Push the Limit (3)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Outmaneuver (3)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17)
Snap Shot (2)
Tactician (2)
R3-A2 (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Snap has always his 1-2 repositions and a focus. Torpedoes are just because I have the points. Maybe Low with 31pt with selflessness and Rey?

The reason I prefer cruise @Wiredin is that Jake mitigates one of the big weaknesses that other pilots have. Jake can go 4-5 straight and then cover even more ground, AND adjust his arc, eg going around a rock, and then on top get a TL to double mod his shot. Outmaneuver is just icing on the cake.

I'm not so happy with Ezra here. Gunner would probably be better, or maybe even Hera to keep up with the other two.

nothing wrong with cruise for sure. I prefer prockets because I like getting in close and dirty. Looks like a lot of fun. I love Snap, he's such a jerk. I usually put comm relay on my intensity build with him.

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I found a new favorite build:

Jake with PTL, Outmaneuver, Cruise, Title, Autothrusters for 35points.

He can easily adjust his arc by taking a focus, then shoots a double modded 5dice missile against a target with -1 agility. So. Much. Fun!

I run Jan, Poe, Jake exactly this way (except totally different )but usually with Prockets and never thought to add Outmanuver which sounds amazing. If thats not living free I dont know what it is.

*Runs to store to try it out. 

So glad TLT maks Hwk 290s viable in purely casual games. Thanks TLT!

Edited by Boom Owl

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I probably spent too much time on this but oh well:

Well I've heard there was a secret squad
That Duncan played, and it pleased the Lord
But you don't really care for Soontir, do you?
Well it goes like this:
The Yorr, the Quiz, the Carnor Jax and the major Vynd(er)
The baffled Chris composing Palpalujah

Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah

Well your MOV was strong (Chris Allen Voice), but you needed proof
You saw her evading on the roof,
Her beauty and the k-turns outflew ya.
She tied you to her forward arc there,
She broke your kill zone, and she cut your Blair,
And from your list she drew the Palpalujah.

Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah

But baby I've been here before
I've seen this room and I've gone 0 and four,
You know, I used to fly Fat Han before I knew ya.
And I've seen your standings on the marble arch,
And skill is not a victory march,
It's a cold and it's a broken Palpalujah.

Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah

Maybe there's a Force above,
But all I've ever learned from Omicron,

Was how to shoot somebody who quickdrew ya.

And it's not a cry that you hear in flight,
It's not somebody who's seen the light,
It's a cold and it's a broken Palpalujah.

Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah
Palpalujah

Palpalujah

Edited by Mattman7306
Jendon to Omicron cuz nobody uses jendon

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