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Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast

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Tried to play music... restarted the last podcast. Dang it. Well, guess I'm trapped now. It is making me want for a good strategy game vs live people.

Hey @catachanninja - I may actually have some missiles and things if you haven't found some yet. I know I have 1/144 scale sidewinders (bit large, but maybe not so comically too large) and I think I may still have the payload for a 1/256 A-10 in my scrap bin. Send me a PM if you're serious about needing payload for that T-70.

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1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:

I SAW A TLT HWK ONCE!!!!!!  THEY ARE GOOD IN THE META!!!  TLT DEFINITLY ISN"T HURTING THEM MORE THAN IT HELPS!!!!

Seriously though, that argument drives me insane.  HWKs aren't good, and nerfing TLT won't push them out of something they aren't in.  Same with Y-wings, there are other things keeping them viable, but they aren't TLT carriers.

Though to some degree I feel like to those people and the context they play in it is actually true. Because they're mediocre players flying cobbled together jank facing off against other mediocre players flying cobbled together jank a TLT Hawk probably isn't that bad simply because the reason TLT is so good is straight up geometry + math and that's invariant. When you're flying ships without reposition, without defensive stacking, without massive alpha strikes at PS11, the TLT Hawk's terrible chassis makes up for the terrible brokeness of its turret and finds a nice balance running against that Jek Porkins theme list.

TLDR: TLT Hawks are the only thing keeping Jek Porkins from dominating the meta and no one wants that so we can't nerf TLT

Edited by Makaze

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4 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Though to some degree I feel like to those people and the context they play in it is actually true. Because they're mediocre players flying cobbled together jank facing off against other mediocre players flying cobbled together jank a TLT Hawk probably isn't that bad simply because the reason TLT is so good is straight up geometry + math and that's invariant. When you're flying ships without reposition, without defensive stacking, without massive alpha strikes at PS11, the TLT Hawk's terrible chassis makes up for the terrible brokeness of its turret and finds a nice balance running against that Jek Porkins theme list.

TLDR: TLT Hawks are the only thing keeping Jek Porkins from dominating the meta and no one wants that so we can't nerf TLT

I get that, but ultimately I think that TLT is enough of a boring experience to play against to warrant changing it.  Further more, if these people do think TLT is balanced (or that it should be allowed on HWKs) then they can play that way outside of tournaments.  No one is making you play anything then except your opponent, but in a tournament, FFG has an obligation to remove something that is harming the meta (as TLT is, as far as I can tell) - regardless of what it may relegate to further obscurity.

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5 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

I get that, but ultimately I think that TLT is enough of a boring experience to play against to warrant changing it.  Further more, if these people do think TLT is balanced (or that it should be allowed on HWKs) then they can play that way outside of tournaments.  No one is making you play anything then except your opponent, but in a tournament, FFG has an obligation to remove something that is harming the meta (as TLT is, as far as I can tell) - regardless of what it may relegate to further obscurity.

Lol, I wasn't actually defending TLT or saying it's balanced in the actual meta. More saying that if you don't watch streams and don't surf Listjuggler then your definition of what the meta is, and what effects a given change will have on it, tends to be very skewed. So just telling people that TLT Hawks are bad doesn't work all that well to convince them since, not just in a single game but, across all their games and all their data points... their data shows the opposite.

Also I wanted to make a Jek Porkins meta joke

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1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Lol, I wasn't actually defending TLT or saying it's balanced in the actual meta. More saying that if you don't watch streams and don't surf Listjuggler then your definition of what the meta is, and what effects a given change will have on it, tends to be very skewed. So just telling people that TLT Hawks are bad doesn't work all that well to convince them since, not just in a single game but, across all their games and all their data points... their data shows the opposite.

Also I wanted to make a Jek Porkins meta joke

I got that from your post, I was just seeking to elaborate on the idea, and show why it shouldn't be a valid defense of TLT because the casual players can do whatever they want.

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27 minutes ago, Brunas said:

It was in our notes in some random episode, but this is worth watching:

Some random thoughts before I go to bed:

1: Luck v. Skill: Its been mentioned before, but X-wing has the appearance of luck, but enough ways to mitigate it that complete luck is almost never a factor.  The better player/list will win the majority of the time.  (The one thing I would like is the ability to re-roll a die any number of times, but only once per trigger.  allows for even more mitigation, and seems a bit more intuitive)

2: The problem is the better list is more important than the better player.  I'm sure I could beat Zach with ghost fenn if he was flying 5 HWKs with synced turrets.  IF you level the playing field, I lose.  This means the better players have to play the best list if they want to win, and sometimes, the best lists aren't fun.

3: X-wing doesn't really have sponsors (At least, not in the same way), so why is FFG trying to make the meta diverse?  Is it an attempt to make a fun casual game and a sleek competitive one?

4: X-wing is probably better casually, with custom formats and rules.  Maybe the idea of 100/3 is just leading us down the wrong path.

5: "Communication is key"

maybe these are wrong, but Its too late for me to care, and somehow, I think at least one in five is right.

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Oh, I don't think FFG is deliberately making the game more luck based and or easier.  It's just in note to the correlation of larger tournament turnout combined with more luck involved in winning.

Edited by Brunas

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49 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Oh, I don't think FFG is deliberately making the game more luck based and or easier.  It's just in note to the correlation of larger tournament turnout combined with more luck involved in winning.

I kinda agree. There certianly not making it more luck based. Thats for sure.

I think the games issues repeatedly just trace back to emphasizing portions of Rebel Theme that arent really consistent with the needs of Spaceship Dogfighting Gameplay.

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Nearly every release has further stripped away some component of luck and increased efficiency, at least from the offensive side of things.  Sabine, Maul + Ezra, Rey crew, Guidance chips, crack shot, linked battery, PS10 trajectory simulator, Advanced Optics, Harpoon missiles, Coordinates from Fenn @ PS11, ect.  These are all things that increase offensive output and allow better decisions to be made based on board states at the end of the activation phase.

There are a handful of defensive things (Autothrusters, com relay, sensor cluster, LWF, C3P0 crew, Latts crew, sensor jammer, Palp crew, rebel regen, ect) that boost your survival and mitigate green dice variance.  But for ships that can't equip those or for direct damage from bombs you are entirely up to squad health, positioning, luck and available tokens.

It's the direct damage and incredibly accurate burst damage that has completely changed my list building and driven me away from stuff that I used to find fun and interesting.  One of my favorite lists to fly is a 4 tie salad of various pocket aces.  But between Dash, Nym and Miranda I just got tired of trying to fly that since there wasn't a safe way to approach them.  Almost any angle of approach ended up in some form of firepower or damage that I couldn't reliably mitigate and win the damage race against them.  

 

 

 

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So there is a funny discussion on UK/EU X-wing group. Some highlights:

Good Morning

May I share with you recent Polish Community rule problem with the newest Tractor beam rules interpretation:

According to the newest SoS Judge team (drawing attention of Vince Kingston) ruling, you cannot put ship on the obstacle with tractor beam barell roll, if the manevouer template overlaps this obstacle, because rule says explicitly that only ship can overlap, but template is not mentioned.
So according to RAW tractor beam is terribly nerfed. Nobody thinks about RAI, which is commonly accepted atittude.

So my friends......WHAT ABOUT DASH?

Dash can ignore obstacles, but his manevuer template cannot!!

--------------

The important argument bought up on Polish Group was "Stunned Pilot" and ruling about it in FAQ. It clearly indicates that when card says "you" it means "Ship" not the manouver.

------------------

So for now, we got few situation to settle, and i think without help from ffg itself we are a bit hopless here. 1. Tractor beam. 2 Dash. 3 Scum Nym and his bomb. 4. If 1 is true, then what about collision detector? Can we tractor beam ship with collision detector, throug the asteroid? 5. Anything else?

-----------

Go!

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Amaimon said:

So there is a funny discussion on UK/EU X-wing group. Some highlights:

Good Morning

May I share with you recent Polish Community rule problem with the newest Tractor beam rules interpretation:

According to the newest SoS Judge team (drawing attention of Vince Kingston) ruling, you cannot put ship on the obstacle with tractor beam barell roll, if the manevouer template overlaps this obstacle, because rule says explicitly that only ship can overlap, but template is not mentioned.
So according to RAW tractor beam is terribly nerfed. Nobody thinks about RAI, which is commonly accepted atittude.

So my friends......WHAT ABOUT DASH?

Dash can ignore obstacles, but his manevuer template cannot!!

--------------

The important argument bought up on Polish Group was "Stunned Pilot" and ruling about it in FAQ. It clearly indicates that when card says "you" it means "Ship" not the manouver.

------------------

So for now, we got few situation to settle, and i think without help from ffg itself we are a bit hopless here. 1. Tractor beam. 2 Dash. 3 Scum Nym and his bomb. 4. If 1 is true, then what about collision detector? Can we tractor beam ship with collision detector, throug the asteroid? 5. Anything else?

-----------

Go!

Sounds like Vince ruled it correctly. Comparing tractor beam to collision detector you see the distinction. Yes, I agree this is stupid and it's on my list to force the marshal at Worlds to answer. 

Dash isn't a great comparison because he just says "you may ignore obstacles..." leaving it vague and open to application to all things Dash during that phase including his templates he uses for actions, measuring range for snapshot, movement, debris gambit, etc.

Stunned pilot refers to the final position of the maneuver so no templates are involved. See the endless arguments between X7 and Stunned pilot about present tense being after maneuver final position and past being during maneuver. This is why I like math more than English.

Bonus: Scum Nym and his bomb is also on my Worlds list.

 

Super Bonus: Six naked HWKs won a game at Adepticon. The meta is wide open!!! You're argument is invalid!!! #AllTheDataINeed

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8 minutes ago, sirjorj said:

So if im flying dash and when moving, i just slide the ship into position and it pushes an obstacle with it, thats fine because i am ignoring it!

Dash is like a ghost (Casper, not Kanan) he can try to push the obstacle, but he'll just ignore it and it'll pass right through the base. If you try and the obstacle moves then you clearly weren't ignoring it enough and you'll take the asteroid effect as well as implement the "you done screwed up the board state" rules which your opponent gets to put it back and flog you three times. If you cry, he can take all your official FFG OP swag.

X-Wing Tournament Regulations - Page 2 - Column 2 - Paragraph 3 - Sentence 2

Edited by Killerardvark

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11 hours ago, Brunas said:

Oh, I don't think FFG is deliberately making the game more luck based and or easier.  It's just in note to the correlation of larger tournament turnout combined with more luck involved in winning.

Probably not - they have enough cards designed to mitigate luck in there - but by making the list of viable lists so similar, it does come down to luck (as weird as that is) in the mirror match.  Turrets mean that either both of you are shooting or neither of you are, and initiative matters a lot.  Additionally, FFG made it easy to attribute loss to luck - regardless of reality.  High variance lists also happen to be high skill, and low variance is the opposite because a good player can mitigate the variance while a bad player will/can/should avoid it.

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The whole Tractor Beam thing is the kind of madness that makes me want to run away from the game. It's a rabbit-hole of rules-lawyering based on badly written rules.

If we pretend that the Tractor Beam effect is like the action and that the omission of "the template can overlap obstacle" is meaningful, it quickly becomes hard to pretend it's not like the action when it comes to stressed targets or a target that performed that action already this turn (or Tractor Beams preventing an action from being selected later if they happened in activation).

OTOH, if we accept that it was intended to be "something else," we get rid of most of the madness, which is easy since the reference card nicely points out that "this is not an action or maneuver", e.g. it is something else, albeit a badly defined something else, since the missing part may be on purpose or "it's so obvious, no need to write it, right?".

The whole applicability to Dash is just the cherry on top of the madness. I took over as TO to ensure that X-wing would survive for our community and to help people parse the sane questions they may have, not to get into the nitty gritty of RAI v RAW when the words were not even designed to support that analysis. I get paid good money to interpret and write laws and regulations in my day job, I will not be doing that for free as a hobby.

I wasn't a wargamer before X-wing and I likely never will be again.

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15 minutes ago, drjkel said:

I took over as TO to ensure that X-wing would survive for our community and to help people parse the sane questions they may have, not to get into the nitty gritty of RAI v RAW when the words were not even designed to support that analysis. I get paid good money to interpret and write laws and regulations in my day job, I will not be doing that for free as a hobby.

I wasn't a wargamer before X-wing and I likely never will be again.

It's very frustrating.  I would have never dove into rules madness/hilarity had I known anyone would take literally any of it seriously.  The rules of this game are not tight enough to justify ruling strict RAW.  Continuing down this path leads to even uglier things.

 

EDIT: I should add, I don't blame anyone for following RAW.  It's not the Euro guy's fault we're in this mess.

Edited by Brunas

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8 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

giphy.gif

 

I'll bet $50 right here I can guess the way the marshal at worlds will rule tractors:

Templates can overlap obstacles.


Any counterbets?
 

I would hope so, otherwise, tractors got a whole lot more confusing to use and one of their best uses spectacularly nerfed. 

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