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26 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Um, I am actually playing live X Wing, (resumed but reduced, masked and distanced). And Squadrons. And posting on both topics. All 3 occupy different time slots for me, I struggle to see how they would become mutually exclusive.

I dislike playing online X Wing, so I don't, but that doesn't make it irrelevant to me. I hope Nantex get a nerf, but I expect their current dominance will be irrelevant to me. I am interested in the meta they have created, because that probably will be relevant to me.

I'm not mad at all. 

Well, a little bit, but not in that sense. 

My favourite flagship system to target is all of them at once, as I yolo in spamming proton bombs and die in a blaze of hopeless glory.

I think that's everything.

I can’t play live x-wing yet. I’ve played maybe four table games since February, all with the same person. 
 

Xwing is a video game for me right now, and it’s maybe fourth on my list of most fun video games? I like swarms and swarm adjacent, and it seems silly to play six ships and not bring Nantex. I don’t want to do that to the people I play friendly games with, because they will stop playing friendly games with me eventually.

 

So, brrrt the targeting system it is. This thread has always been an ebb and flow of high level discussion and completely off topic memes. We just aren’t all on the same page right now. 

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38 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

You're right. 

Some of us don't have real xwing credentials. 

I guess we should just excuse ourselves from these forums for the sake of the greater good. 

They're giving out xwing credentials? Do I have to pay for the test or is it free with the class?

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1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

You're right. 

Some of us don't have real xwing credentials. 

I guess we should just excuse ourselves from these forums for the sake of the greater good. 

I don't exactly know who you're referring to.

Blatantly untrue of anyone on here ofc.

If you don't want to talk about X Wing, maybe yes?

I don't post what I post to disparage anyone and I really don't think I've posted anything that even comes close to insulting or belittling. I did spark this by asking for clarity on a couple of confusing posts that appeared to be derailment attempts. And I did so in cheeky fashion, because that seems acceptable.

It's this that I object to. I'm all for nonsense and silliness, but the derailment and disenguous comments are simply trolling, I'd love to know why the desire to do so, from credible X Wing players, is there.

After the last 3 GSPs, post tourney discussion was had. The Nantex thing, clearly well covered but decent discussion was in amongst that, plenty of it. This last cut was actually a pretty interesting development, in terms of reaction to Nantex, so I figured more interesting discussion might lead from it. I honestly am no meta junky, so not ideally prepped to contribute in any kind of leading way, but I was looking forward to seeing what everyone had to say on that reaction and what may develop from it.

But barely any traction, and what was attempted, suffered disparaging prods and pokes.

Again, I'd really love to understand the reasoning.

I assume this is because there was some defence of the Nantex as wholesome and notsobad, but with the Crait results in, the imbalance is plain as day, wholesome or otherwise, therefore the whole discussion must be poo-pooed, rather than re-trod?

There is no need to retread the Nantex thing, but there is other angles.

Seem an accurate take to anyone? Or not?

Please do not presume that I have any RAGE or inevitable disagreement with anyone's views. I am actually interested in what people have to say about X Wing, whether their views align with my own or not. I defer to those that are wisely and reasonably expressed and will happily chuckle at any interspersed nonsense that arrives without malicious intent.

So do please enlighten me as to what on earth is behind this confuse react farming?

Or just don't. I'm really very easy either way.

And again, not even a little bit cross.

...I think that's everything else....

Edited by Cuz05

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41 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I like swarms and swarm adjacent, and it seems silly to play six ships and not bring Nantex. I don’t want to do that to the people I play friendly games with, because they will stop playing friendly games with me eventually.

FAIR.

But I don't think it's silly to not play Nantex if you're not competing with Nantex. Friendly games are just about fun, no? 

 

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12 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

But barely any traction, and what was attempted, suffered disparaging prods and pokes.

Again, I'd really love to understand the reasoning.

I assume this is because there was some defence of the Nantex as wholesome and notsobad, but with the Crait results in, the imbalance is plain as day, wholesome or otherwise, therefore the whole discussion must be poo-pooed, rather than re-trod?

This is kind of where I'm at. I feel that at this point, I'd just be rehashing the same point, kind of like BoomOwl and svelok when they talk about aces being too good. I tune them out, and would expect anyone that hears me speak against Nantex again would just tune me out the same. Especially at this point, there are so few detractors to the "Nantex are bad for the game" camp, that most discussion would likely lean towards an echo chamber.

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8 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

FAIR.

But I don't think it's silly to not play Nantex if you're not competing with Nantex. Friendly games are just about fun, no? 

 

That’s true, for sure. I’m not sure I understand my own wants at the moment. I was one of the weirdos trying to make non-ensnare Nantex work before the points change, and (not to brag too much) called it the day points were released. Don’t go back and check, never scroll up. 
 

I think I’d rather build lists assuming Nantex cost an extra 4 or so right now than try to get excited about something else, but squadrons is calling and I’ve been getting into sea of thieves and I think I’m more excited for the next few releases than the ones we just got?

 

I want to try to figure out the new Resistance stuff and tri-fighters and I’m a little disappointed in hmp costs and too worried about accidentally feels-bad to play extended against my innocent e-locals. 

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6 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

This is kind of where I'm at. I feel that at this point, I'd just be rehashing the same point, kind of like BoomOwl and svelok when they talk about aces being too good. I tune them out, and would expect anyone that hears me speak against Nantex again would just tune me out the same. Especially at this point, there are so few detractors to the "Nantex are bad for the game" camp, that most discussion would likely lean towards an echo chamber.

Yeah I agree it definitely does feel very echo-chambery in here lately. I’m not sure why not being mad about nantex is an unacceptable take now but I guess I sort of understand that with the stress of the world people want something to take their anger out on.

Let’s just refrain from taking our anger out on each other please. 

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4 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

too worried about accidentally feels-bad to play extended against my innocent e-locals. 

Haha, the non-Nantex stuff in that cut actually made me feel less bad about fielding my own Extended BS....

I did take my own notsohot take to other threads, given what was going on here, but there was some real weird, wonderful and frightening Nontex things in that cut that piqued my interest in the post Nantex world. Some of it will undoubtedly pick up where they left off, but I am intrigued if the things that Nantex suppress can step up and push us towards the nicely balanced extended some of us would like.

Wookiees, Xi enabled FO, Conc bombs scare me a little bit. Much of the other may settle in nicely once the dust settles. Possibly. 

I believe I'm due to feel the force of a Xi enabled Eps swarm tomorrow...

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4 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I’m a little disappointed in hmp costs and too worried about accidentally feels-bad to play extended against my innocent e-locals.

HMPs need to be further looked into. I think they might be worth their points but folks need to figure out where they excel best. Ryuneke has some batreps in the batrep subforum, and they seem pretty good when massed against aces. The times that I've seen them perform poorly are when they were piloted into a field of obstacles. MultiMissile Pods seem a waste on them, but Ion Missiles or Conc Missiles paired with DRK-1 droids seem to greatly enable them.

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3 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

HMPs need to be further looked into. I think they might be worth their points but folks need to figure out where they excel best. Ryuneke has some batreps in the batrep subforum, and they seem pretty good when massed against aces. The times that I've seen them perform poorly are when they were piloted into a field of obstacles. MultiMissile Pods seem a waste on them, but Ion Missiles or Conc Missiles paired with DRK-1 droids seem to greatly enable them.

My first instinct is that they are now the cheapest relay carrier, but not particularly interesting without the config. I think I’d find the points for a titled ottraw instead of an hmp. They seem too expensive for a 2 dice gun, even 180 degree, and by the time you spend the points to get them a bigger gun they aren’t worth that anymore either. 
 

I’ll be happy when someone inevitably proves me wrong, but I don’t see it yet. 

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3 hours ago, pheaver said:

That was when we played X-Wing.  Since a large number of the major posters in this thread don't care about online X-Wing events, they aren't exactly taking it seriously.  When we get back to playing X-Wing IRL again, I at least plan on being more serious and useful to the community.  Otherwise, I'm just in a holding pattern.

Basically, this

 

3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

You're right. 

Some of us don't have real xwing credentials. 

I guess we should just excuse ourselves from these forums for the sake of the greater good. 

There are no X-wing credentials

 

 

On 10/4/2020 at 7:42 PM, Sunitsa said:

So nantex won 4 of these online events and the only non online one, I guess they are still wholesome

Faan is 22-0 with them.

But it's ok, 1.0 was worse...

Again, it's worth noting "what won" isn't how data works, and works against the point you're trying to make. Further, comparing it to 1.0 basically detracts from it as well.

If the point is that nantexans are dominant - I (we?) agree, and the data supports it (which, you should include the top 16/32 data, not 'top 1'). 

But the other comparisons are... weird? Vultures had a similar win rate, but here we are, tearing the world down now? I think it's partially because the world itself sucks, but I still feel compelled to defend data analysis. That's not the same as defending nantexans, but the peripheral, almost histrionic statements appended to them.

The top 16/32 data alone is enough to state that something is wrong with the list - it's clearly dominant. No reason to go with further extremes, which can digress or distract from the main thesis.

Edited by Tlfj200

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14 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

 

Again, it's worth noting "what won" isn't how data works, and works against the point you're trying to make. Further, comparing it to 1.0 basically detracts from it as well.

If the point is that nantexans are dominant - I (we?) agree, and the data supports it (which, you should include the top 16/32 data, not 'top 1'). 

But the other comparisons are... weird? Vultures had a similar win rate, but here we are, tearing the world down now? I think it's partially because the world itself sucks, but I still feel compelled to defend data analysis. That's not the same as defending nantexans, but the peripheral, almost histrionic statements appended to them.

The top 16/32 data alone is enough to state that something is wrong with the list - it's clearly dominant. No reason to go with further extremes, which can digress or distract from the main thesis.

I mean, at this point the only "surprise" about nantex is that Faan is 22-0 with it and that's something that, to my knowledge, has never happened before in this game. Why should I keep pointing at top cuts since everyone not living under a rock should by now know about nantex dominance?

And regardless of Nantex: I totally agree that using the top 1 of a tournament is a skewed logic, but I was pointing at 5 different top 1. By now that's a data worth noting: even if it was just one single list in the field and not a pretty common one with crazy conversion rate, it would have been meaningful data once you get it winning 5 tournaments.

I mean, it's not Justin Phua winning worlds with a unique list, it's 5 people (actually 4 since Faan won twice) winning in a row with the same list, can you really dismissi this?

 

I'm not sure what can my comment about 1.0 detracts from this since that was just a jab at the long history of this very thread where 1.0 got shitted upon every now and then pointing out that we never had something like that happening before (although obviously we never also had such a widespread online play, I personally beleive that if we had that before we would have seem similar situation in some metas)

And to be clear: I don't play xwing online, so same team on this aspect. But I also played at the only "biggish" not only tournament and Nantex were there too. And to be even clearer: at this point I'm even somehow enjoying the challenge of facing Nantex. I think I've found a decent counter and know the matchup pretty well... I've done 7 live games vs Nantex, mostly for tournaments. I'd say that's the archetype after rebel beef I've played against the most in 2.0... Still I find amazing people are/were defending them

 

And I also complained against vulture, so that's not something you can throw back at me :P

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3 hours ago, Brunas said:

So if you haven't played squadrons yet I uhh, recommend you do.  Playing with 4 other friends for fleet battles is up there with the best games I've ever played in my life.

Drifting is by far my favorite mechanic. Just drifting around the first A-wing campaign levels not shooting anything has been enough to keep me entertained. Seeing how fast/close I can get to stuff without hitting it. The flight model is excellent, still just messing with that and haven’t really tried to sort out combat much.

My early impression is its one of those games that could become like FIFA or F1 with close to yearly updates for like the next 10 years. Which for me would be ideal since I like minor refinements to a good formula over the long haul without dramatic changes. 

I hope its successful enough to become its own “genre” again. 

Personally playing it like I have the conversion kits. Slowly working through all the ridiculous little nuances it has to offer. Haven’t even thought about Multiplayer yet.

For now there is only Drift. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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Shaak Ti seems a healthy way of introducing Advanced Optics (1st edition) into the game. You need to range control and spend force for it (and with the ability queue, you are hard-capped at 2, regardless how much Yoda you have in your squad). But it still offers some flexibility in alpha-striking with munitions or just freeing up your Jedi Generals' actions. It's like an alternate Delta-7 Obi, and I like that.

Now for a hot take: Eta-2 Obi > Eta-2 Anakin.

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7 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Now for a hot take: Eta-2 Obi > Eta-2 Anakin.

Obi is super good. Works on blocks, red maneuvers. Can easily have focus/evade every turn, since the only stipulation, assuming I'm reading correctly, is having more enemy ships than other friendly ships after you execute a maneuver.

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3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Drifting is by far my favorite mechanic. Just drifting around the first A-wing campaign levels not shooting anything has been enough to keep me entertained. Seeing how fast/close I can get to stuff without hitting it. The flight model is excellent, still just messing with that and haven’t really tried to sort out combat much.

My early impression is its one of those games that could become like FIFA or F1 with close to yearly updates for like the next 10 years. Which for me would be ideal since I like minor refinements to a good formula over the long haul without dramatic changes. 

I hope its successful enough to become its own “genre” again. 

Personally playing it like I have the conversion kits. Slowly working through all the ridiculous little nuances it has to offer. Haven’t even thought about Multiplayer yet.

For now there is only Drift. 

 

My only complaint about the combat is all of the player ships have too much hp.  Average DPS is 400-500 range with a primary and a basic TIE has 1550 hp, so about a full 3 seconds of just pounding a TIE fighter in the back of the head and landing every shot won't kill it unless you're overcharging your weapons or you have help.  TIE Bombers have 2500 hp because...reasons?  So have fun with that unless your team is focus firing (all of the TIE Bombers I face off against in fleet battles, literally come to a complete stop in front the MC75 and just shoot it becuase they know it takes forever to kill them).  I think the game would have a much better and more satisfying feel with about a 20% hp drop on everything.

Edited by MasterShake2

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43 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Shaak Ti seems a healthy way of introducing Advanced Optics (1st edition) into the game. You need to range control and spend force for it (and with the ability queue, you are hard-capped at 2, regardless how much Yoda you have in your squad). But it still offers some flexibility in alpha-striking with munitions or just freeing up your Jedi Generals' actions. It's like an alternate Delta-7 Obi, and I like that.

Now for a hot take: Eta-2 Obi > Eta-2 Anakin.

I agree. I like Shaak Ti's ability. I think she is definitely going to take some learning to fly correctly(definitely a different way of approach if you want to burn force in the end phase), but maybe that's where Yoda will come in handy, making sure she has the 2 force available to spend.

reply to your hot take: Well of course, Obi-Wan has the high ground! (Although I really like Anakin's ability paired with R2-D2 even if it's going to cost an arm and a leg.)

my Hot take:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/b4/8d/b48d787d-96db-4955-9a58-5c8aa3ab9035/swz79_jedi-general.pngT

Another I-4 Generic.

Pepe Mad GIFs | Tenor

Maybe this one will cost more than 30 points.

 

Another hot take before I forget what to be made about: (Also RIP Luke being able to take Extreme Maneuvers. Why FFG hate rebels?)

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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