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Posted (edited)

@5050Saint

I mistyped. I think Maul should be at least 18-20 pts as its two force charges and it makes no sense that Fifth would be the same cost for 1 even if its correct at 12.

Keep in mind I unapologetically dislike force charges and think they all should be frustratingly expensive to access under current rules. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

(and one point more than the I3 TIE/v1?)

Was anyone one flying BotEs before they were dropped to this low? Iirc the free mod Inqs were getting all the flight time for the chassis. FFG wants people to give Barons of the Empire a try.

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22 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Keep in mind I unapologetically dislike force charges and think they all should be frustratingly expensive to access under current rules. 

Totally fine.  Only unapologetic dislike doesn't always make for the most accurate predictions.

1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

V-Wings I expect at A-Wing prices, too, but FFG has consistently overpriced named Clone prices on other ships when they release, so maybe they'll get these wrong, as well. Our model prediction thingie, put the I2 V-Wing at 29 points which is the cost of an I1 RZ-1 A-Wing (and one point more than the I3 TIE/v1?). 

Is that including the ship ability or not?  That's certainly one I'd consider to be worth 0-points.  Again, not a knock on the model.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Totally fine.  Only unapologetic dislike doesn't always make for the most accurate predictions.

True thats why I predict Yoda to be 12. Because nothing makes sense and it doesnt have to. What I think things will cost and what I wish they would cost are 2 very different things.

Edited by Boom Owl

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16 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

True thats why I predict Yoda to be 12.

I'm leaning more towards 15. Unlike Maul, the downside of Yoda's ability is just spending a recurring resource, which he increases the pool of by 2. Maul makes you easier to predict if you use his ability instead of just his single recurring force charge.

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2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Finally got around to at least partially reading the rest of the spoiled cards. Curious what people think about the 4 cards below...some thoughts to kick the bee-hive. 

Plo:

  • latest?cb=20200109183340
  • +1 Purple, Re-Enforce, and Crit Regen seems helpful for Arcs & LAATs.
  • On first pass the most useful thing about this looks like the +1 Purple?
  • LAATs have alot of Hull and the first time I proxyed one recently I took 7 Crits so maybe that Regen is pretty good. 
  • The more I invest in a LAAT though the more I expect I will ask myself "Why is this not just another End-Game Jedi pilot?" 

 

My reflex is "If he's well costed, he will see some play just because he's a force crew".  That being said, spending a force to reinforce is almost certainly a good trade against multiple attackers even if you're not repairing faceup cards or pulling strain/deplete.  He's situational force crew, but even situational force crew can see play because force.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:
  • oYKb7ky.png
  • +2 Purple, Purple Coordinate, and Purple Regen...seems pretty **** good. 
  • Random context.....Maul = 12 pts & Fifth Bro = 12 pts?
  • The only thing that makes sense about Purple Points is that none of them make any sense. 
  • Leads me to believe +2 Purple Yoda is going to be bizarrely cheap like Maul who is maybe 10 pts undercosted. 
  • "Slightly" concerned this paired with 2-4 rerolls a round will make Force Management on ETA-2s less challenging/interesting. 
  • However....anything that gets Republic using something besides Jedi copy paste is a net positive I guess. 
  • And this gets us back to the same "Just take another Jedi" puzzle if your rolling with a 60 pt LAAT/Arc.
  • I could see ETA-2 + Athersprite + LAAT + 2 V-Wings being a pretty good list around 199 without room for Crew. 
  • To get Yoda in there you probably would have to drop one of the 2 full Jedi Aces.  

 

Palp doesn't see play, Palp is also force coordinate + random other thing.  +1 force helps, but also probably upps cost.  I feel like he likely won't be well costed and we probably don't want him to be well costed.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Rex

 

  • B1ML1y0.png
  • By far the coolest newly spoiled republic card thats not an actual ship or pilot 
  • I really really like how this could interact with Besh V-Wings! 
  • Rex LAAT + i2 V-Wings with or without Besh seems like fun. 
  • Have to be able to spend a focus + have ships shooting after you + have things in bullseye. 
  • On net V-Wings seem like weird little Offense Only Force users especially paired with the LAAT. 
  • Passive mods that are board state dependent and not always on like purple are pretty cool.  

 

He's a fun and interesting card, but the setup is really obnoxious (and will just fail if you don't roll a focus result).  My guess is that he's probably cheap, but even that will, at best, see some spotty play.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Patience:

 

  • aBs1KWd.png
  • The main reason I am excited about the ETA2 is its potentially increased Force Burn rate
    • Purple Lock
    • Purple Talon
    • Purple System Phase Repo 
    • Less HP to "trade"
  • That nets out to lead to more situations where the ETA could be on 1 Force Charge which matters a great deal for Non-Purple counter options
  • Unfortunately the ETA like Athers and Kylo/Vader/Boba still hugely benefit from opting into Bumping things. 
  • Its just as effective as staying out of arc via init kills or reposition and becomes a core part of strategy especially against fewer ships. 
  • Patience.....on paper seems to encourage ETA and Athers to opt into Bumping stuff even more. 
  • I hope this and Yoda are expensive enough to really call into question leaning on them for Force Management
  • Is Patience at least a 9 pt upgrade? Probably. If 1 force charge is worth 9 pts then Maul and Yoda should start at 18-20 pts right?  

 

Super cost dependent.  My reflex was a Rey/Finn falcon would like it and, if low enough, light side force aces use it.  I'm not a fan of "reduce offense to increase defense" cards in general and in X-Wing specifically because time is already a problem and I feel like this card reads "take target game to time" especially if well costed enough to be easily equipped to 3-4 Jedi.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Finally got around to at least partially reading the rest of the spoiled cards. Curious what people think about the 4 cards below...some thoughts to kick the bee-hive. 

Plo:

  • latest?cb=20200109183340
  • +1 Purple, Re-Enforce, and Crit Regen seems helpful for Arcs & LAATs.
  • On first pass the most useful thing about this looks like the +1 Purple?
  • LAATs have alot of Hull and the first time I proxyed one recently I took 7 Crits so maybe that Regen is pretty good. 
  • The more I invest in a LAAT though the more I expect I will ask myself "Why is this not just another End-Game Jedi pilot?" 

Yoda: 

  • oYKb7ky.png
  • +2 Purple, Purple Coordinate, and Purple Regen...seems pretty **** good. 
  • Random context.....Maul = 12 pts & Fifth Bro = 12 pts?
  • The only thing that makes sense about Purple Points is that none of them make any sense. 
  • Leads me to believe +2 Purple Yoda is going to be bizarrely cheap like Maul who is maybe 10 pts undercosted. 
  • "Slightly" concerned this paired with 2-4 rerolls a round will make Force Management on ETA-2s less challenging/interesting. 
  • However....anything that gets Republic using something besides Jedi copy paste is a net positive I guess. 
  • And this gets us back to the same "Just take another Jedi" puzzle if your rolling with a 60 pt LAAT/Arc.
  • I could see ETA-2 + Athersprite + LAAT + 2 V-Wings being a pretty good list around 199 without room for Crew. 
  • To get Yoda in there you probably would have to drop one of the 2 full Jedi Aces.  

Rex

  • B1ML1y0.png
  • By far the coolest newly spoiled republic card thats not an actual ship or pilot 
  • I really really like how this could interact with Besh V-Wings! 
  • Rex LAAT + i2 V-Wings with or without Besh seems like fun. 
  • Have to be able to spend a focus + have ships shooting after you + have things in bullseye. 
  • On net V-Wings seem like weird little Offense Only Force users especially paired with the LAAT. 
  • Passive mods that are board state dependent and not always on like purple are pretty cool.  

Patience:

  • aBs1KWd.png
  • The main reason I am excited about the ETA2 is its potentially increased Force Burn rate
    • Purple Lock
    • Purple Talon
    • Purple System Phase Repo 
    • Less HP to "trade"
  • That nets out to lead to more situations where the ETA could be on 1 Force Charge which matters a great deal for Non-Purple counter options
  • Unfortunately the ETA like Athers and Kylo/Vader/Boba still hugely benefit from opting into Bumping things. 
  • Its just as effective as staying out of arc via init kills or reposition and becomes a core part of strategy especially against fewer ships. 
  • Patience.....on paper seems to encourage ETA and Athers to opt into Bumping stuff even more. 
  • I hope this and Yoda are expensive enough to really call into question leaning on them for Force Management
  • Is Patience at least a 9 pt upgrade? Probably. If 1 force charge is worth 9 pts then Maul and Yoda should start at 18-20 pts right?  

TLDR: Rex is cool and...

tenor.gif?itemid=13971129

Patience is the only card i managed to read all the words on before i spaced out, putting that on plo pilot seems pretty dank. 

 

okay i got bored at work and decided to read some more words. Thinking about force crew for republic, one thing to factor into the costs of the crew is what chassis they can go on.  a force point on boba or whisper is worth wayyyy more than it is on on an arc and i suspect a laat is closer to an arc.

Edited by catachanninja

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Posted (edited)

I haven't considered the possibilities of using Patience on a Finn Rey, @MasterShake2. That sounds good if you just need to tank through a tough round or to charge your superlaser. I initially thought that it was going to be used exclusively on R2 7B Jedi aces or on Kanan Jarrus.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

True thats why I predict Yoda to be 12. Because nothing makes sense and it doesnt have to. What I think things will cost and what I wish they would cost are 2 very different things.

Hrm.  I kinda figure at least 14.  Leaving Maul aside any Maul comparisons, because he's so odd, cheapest force is Seventh Sister at 9 points.  Lumi/Saesee are 5 points more than Barriss Offee, Obi 4 points more than Plo.  That seems to be about what FFG prices a marginal force charge at, given equal-ish pilot abilities and initiatives and such, on a pilot who already has the force.  +4 to 5 points.  Adding 4-5 points to a low-effect force crew like Sev gets you to 14 as a baseline for Yoda.

I can see him being a bit more.  Not sure how much a purple Coordinate is worth, but it does seen pretty nice.  His ability shuffles force charges around, which is useful because it's more force on the Jedi than on Yoda's ship (but not so much with Aethersprites, since their pilot ability isn't a purple action!).  He's almost like Emperor Palp in that sense--the other folks get the force, not Yoda, mostly.  So that could bring up the price some, but he doesn't seem as good as Leia, I don't think.  I suppose 14-17 is my guess.

Part of this is that there isn't a crew-carrier ship in Republic which actually makes good use of Force for it's normal effect.  ARCs get expensive fast with force crew/gunners, and LAAT doesn't roll many dice.  Like, if Republic was flying something like a Firespray, I'd expect a lot more.  Republic is kind of like Empire in that their ships mostly aren't great at making use of the force *crew*.  Gunner-ships fare better (although Duchess with 5th Brother being *more* expensive than Soontir Fel is odd to me), but between Lambdas and Reapers and VT-49s, they don't really get a tonne of mileage.

Fifth Brother is priced almost entirely based on the ships which can take him.  Strikers and Phantoms are strong with the Force, and they have Gunner slots.  Based on effect, he's worse than Seventh Sister crew.  She's stronger but cheaper, but can't ride along with Whisper.  Yoda doesn't have anything like a Boba or Whisper to fly in.  He's got a slightly buffed K-Wing and an ARC.

I guess I've kinda lost the plot a bit... Maul is priced kinda silly.

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12 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

I haven't considered the possibilities of using Patience on a Finn Rey, @MasterShake2. That sounds good if you just need to tank through a tough round or to charge your superlaser. I initially thought that it was going to be used exclusively on R2 7B Jedi aces or on Kanan Jarrus.

I can see it being used sometimes, but I'm actually kinda skeptical.

Opening round, when Rey uses force more defensively, she'll be at full force, and can't really use it.  Mid-fight, it'll be trading a damage for an evade, pretty much.  With the strength of her red dice mods, taking a deplete is essentially minus 1 damage, and the extra force isn't ever going to be better than +1 Evade.

Maybe that's worth it for the right player.  But that's the trade-off: one fewer damage given, one fewer taken.  I'll leave it to each player to decide if they like that trade-off, I personally don't.

//

The more I think about it on something like an Aethersprite, however, the stronger it feels.  You'll easily be able to go into a fight at range 3 with even a purple Evade action, then recover that force.  Protect your health at range, and wait until round 2 to start knife-fighting.  Jedi just gain that much more by spending force before the fight than someone like Rey would.

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10 hours ago, Bucknife said:

What does this do for Imperial Black Squadrons? Is Black Swarm back in business? 

Whatever it costs, Black Squadron Ace pays an extra point for it, so no. Stupid talent slot premium needs to go away.

10 hours ago, Bucknife said:

What about TIE Bombers with talents? 

Tomax could like it but his blank ability is still sad. Rhymer doesn't really care since all he's ever wanted is a way to reload his APTs after a K-Turn.

Gamma Squadron Ace might be the worst-priced ship in the game, along with the Tansarii Point Veteran. Who's paying 3 points for the opportunity to pay even more points? Absolutely definitely not worth it and not close to worth it. Stupid talent slot premium needs to go away.

10 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Would you call it an auto include for Imps? 

There isn't an imperial ship that doesn't pay double for talents. If this is a 1-pt talent, you're paying 4 points for it on a Black Squadron Ace vs an Academy Pilot. You'd be paying 4 points for it on a Gamma Squadron Ace vs a Scimitar Squadron Pilot. Best case uses might be the Baron of the Empire or Saber Squadron Pilot as they don't pay extra for the talent slot, except I imagine this thing will start out priced at 4+.

So, absolutely definitely not. It will be good on reapers, some interceptors, and maybe strikers. I think that's it.

I mean even Ruthless wouldn't be autoinclude if it were free because we pay so stinking much for talented pilots. It makes no sense.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

I haven't considered the possibilities of using Patience on a Finn Rey, @MasterShake2. That sounds good if you just need to tank through a tough round or to charge your superlaser. I initially thought that it was going to be used exclusively on R2 7B Jedi aces or on Kanan Jarrus.

I want it to be cheap enough to staple to Rey so I can just sing and Axl Rose sashay to this all day long.

 

Edited by gennataos

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2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Was anyone one flying BotEs before they were dropped to this low? Iirc the free mod Inqs were getting all the flight time for the chassis. FFG wants people to give Barons of the Empire a try.

It's less a knock against the Barons, and more a WTH? for the cost of the A-wings.

34 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I want it to be cheap enough to staple to Rey so I can just sing and Axl Rose sashay to this all day long.

Can confirm. He sings quite a lot while playing. I can't complain though, because I do it almost as much as he does.

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Posted (edited)

At the risk of starting another argument over Rz-1s, I'm not really sure they can go much cheaper (images below are for ref comp, assess at leisure, adding in faction specific synergies/tools/etc where they exist). Though I'm not saying I agree with the BotE's current price, just that I understand why it was probably lowered to it. 

300?cb=20180913211852300?cb=20180914000309300?cb=20180914111220

latest?cb=20181024070640latest?cb=20181024070405latest?cb=20181024070407

Edited by Hiemfire

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Posted (edited)

card-esrUEBYTkIWsj9tZ21htWoRuKoFLsCOYSNt card-esrUEBYTkIWsj9tZ21htWoRuKoFLsCOYSNtcard-esrUEBYTkIWsj9tZ21htWoRuKoFLsCOYSNt

as a pure hypothetical - obviously any version of this card existing would foretell the end times and warrant breaking the glass to flee to gaslands - just for discussion, how many points do you think these would cost?

for comparison:

Jebi Knight: 37
Lumi: 43 (+6)

Baron: 28
Inq: 36 (+8)

Yoddball: 42
Yanakin: 55 (+13)

plo: 45
obi: 49 (+4)

Chewbacca: 70
Leia: 77 (+7)

Maul: 12
Seventh: 9
Palp: 11 
Hate: 9

Edited by svelok

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Stupid talent slot premium needs to go away.

Especially on fragile/low flexibility chassis. 

TIE/lns, Ywings/ z95.... Please no. 

Interceptors? Okay, maybe. 

Edited by Bucknife

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Posted (edited)

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/254909-carolina-krayts-is-the-best-x-wing-podcast/?do=findComment&comment=3974463

This is vaguely familiar...

Hypothetical Talent: Has no restriction on who can take it other than slot. I added the "non-limited" pilot restriction on my hypothetical Illicit for a very good reason. Really would have to be priced for Boba, Fenn, Talented Defenders, Poe, Etc...

Hypothetical Force Talent 1: +1 force pool for existing force user that doesn't stack with your hypothetical talent. Inits: 0/1/2/3/4/5/6  Cost: 4/4/4/8/32/32

Hypothetical Force Talent 2: 32 pts (force pilots with more than one force point can go **** themselves)

Edited by Hiemfire

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Force Sensitive would have to be costed super aggressively. Unless we're talking about Corran or Maarek. Then it can be only 10 pt! :)

Actually, what if they gave them "force-sensitive" squad building tags and only allowed pilots with that tag to take the talent? Cost could be somewhat lower across. Who else would get that hypothetical tag, I know Kyle Katarn at least should. 

Gand Findsmen + Zuckuss, I suppose.

Edited by CaptainJaguarShark

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

Actually, what if they gave them "force-sensitive" tags and only allowed pilots with that tag to take the talent? Cost could be somewhat lower across. Who else would get that hypothetical tag, I know Kyle Katarn at least should. 

Going from what I remember of the games, novels and movies: Katarn, Horn, Zukkus, Findsmen, Resistance Han, and Finn come to mind. Probably more.

Edited by Hiemfire

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  • Force Sensitive (Talent): 2 points over Squad Leader (10 points at Init 3, 16 at Init 6), maybe more.  Just too many potential synergies which could be nasty.
  • Force Sensitiver (force talent): 6 points.  That's a bit more than what often seems to be the difference on cards, but it's kind of the Shield/Hull upgrade kinda things.  Adding the upgrade is often more expensive than when baseline on a ship.
  • Soontir Bias: 8 points.  Regen faster seems pretty good on the right pilots, almost as good as a new force point entirely, so 8 points is nearly what Seventh Sister costs.

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