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2 hours ago, svelok said:

pictured: the core xwing gameplay loop

image0.jpg

The vast majority of players (myself included) are not good enough to execute their ideas, so in those cases we don't get to see whether the ideas/strategies themselves were good. The loop can be perfect, except that the imperfection of step nr5 was not taken into account.

Not good enough means mainly missing triggers and misjudging range and maneuvers. Largely but not only consists of unforced errors.

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5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

The vast majority of players (myself included) are not good enough to execute their ideas, so in those cases we don't get to see whether the ideas/strategies themselves were good. The loop can be perfect, except that the imperfection of step nr5 was not taken into account.

every time you decide to take a lock or barrel roll instead of focusing, you are executing the process

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11 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

LAAAAAAT/i prediction like that I'll take with a grain of salt, since I think the rerolls seem worth considerable--nearly a free lock the thing gives away per turn, and two on the first engage.  Doesn't mean the model is bad, just that it's worth understanding the limitations, etc.

Definitely. The model has limitations. Merely checking that the ship has a chassis ability, but not how strong that ability is, is one of the flaws, but it was better than not considering that ability at all. We are very interested to see how accurate the model is at predicting releases. Wave 7 will be the first test.

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20 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Speaking of lesser used tech being made relevant with more releases, the Xi might make the Mag Pulse/Vonreg ability + Thannison crew combo worth the investment.

I'm pretty sure tie bas and tie sfs are going to absoletly love hanging out with the xi shuttle

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3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

7. Ignore Steps 1-6, mumble "this day we fight" or "for Frodo" to Gandalf, and run full speed at the opponent's entire list with your Ace. 

  • DigitalParchedAttwatersprairiechicken-si

This is why Dormitz, at any cost, is bad and should not be played. He discourages you from patiently splitting enemy forces. But I'll still play pickup games with him because it's so much fun.

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16 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, it's only a 7 point difference from a Reaper.  Sure, that can make or break some lists, but it's still pretty solid.

The Reaper also struggles majorly to position itself well; not that it's too slow but that it's too fast, or else it's stressed. With most imperial crew being range-limited for their effects, it can be a significant challenge to leverage them effectively.

That said, when you can do that in a Reaper well, you can get some amazing things done.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

The Reaper also struggles majorly to position itself well; not that it's too slow but that it's too fast, or else it's stressed. With most imperial crew being range-limited for their effects, it can be a significant challenge to leverage them effectively.

That said, when you can do that in a Reaper well, you can get some amazing things done.

I'm really looking forward to Ion Limiter Overdrive for this reason. I think will make the 2 pilots that can take it much more maneuverable with 7 different red maneuvers to trigger off of. Being such an aesthetically pleasing ship, it so sad not to fly it.

Edited by 5050Saint

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1 minute ago, 5050Saint said:

I'm really looking forward to Ion Limiter Overdrive Override for this reason. I think will make the 2 pilot that can take it much more maneuverable with 7 different red maneuvers to trigger off of. Being such an aesthetically pleasing ship, it so sad not to fly it.

Slight fix and a reminder that it is a Talent and not a Modification. So Vermeil and Feroph if you're planning on taking it on a Reaper.

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1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

Slight fix and a reminder that it is a Talent and not a Modification. So Vermeil and Feroph if you're planning on taking it on a Reaper.

Appreciate it. Didn't realize that was the name.  And yeah, I mentioned that only 2 pilots could take it. The strain and ion don't super bother the Reaper either. It hurts Feroph more, but Vermeil is fairly agnostic.

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27 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Appreciate it. Didn't realize that was the name.  And yeah, I mentioned that only 2 pilots could take it. The strain and ion don't super bother the Reaper either. It hurts Feroph more, but Vermeil is fairly agnostic.

Looked like you were saying "the I2 pilot". Misunderstanding on my side. :)

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

BAs just like dying

You're not wrong. They have A Wing health with essentially Lulo's ability. But they boost at the cost of a green token, not afterwards. Them fragile for 4 hp on 3 greens.

Things that drastically increase BA longetivity:

Gas clouds. Coordinate. Holo passing a green token (or from Holo's view, throwing a lock somewhere less dangerous). Afterburners to free the action. Area denial pieces like Upsilons or Instinctive Torp Kylo. Gas clouds. The Pattern Proud Trad combo to token stack. Daredevil to knife fight better. Elusive, even without Pattern Analyzer. Mag Pulse for deplete + crit + jam. Vonreg ability to Deplete things that won't blue (albeit not all too often) and Upsilon jam (same). An argument could be made for Deuterium, but burners will keep you alive and shooting more. Gas clouds.

They have the tech, but it'll just be easier once Terrex drops. Or Gideon allowing them to deplete more often but still be 3 - 3 red green.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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11 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Ion Limiter Overdrive

What does this do for Imperial Black Squadrons? Is Black Swarm back in business? 

What about TIE Bombers with talents? 

Would you call it an auto include for Imps? 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

What does this do for Imperial Black Squadrons? Is Black Swarm back in business? 

What about TIE Bombers with talents? 

Would you call it an auto include for Imps? 

 

It gives Scourge an option other than Crackshot/Predator. It allows for more aggressive Striker play so long as said Striker is not Countdown. Soontir can be aggressive, but such a build is locking him out of Predator and Crackshot and probably forcing him into targeting computer--in addition to being potentially useful only on turns he did not autothruster (unless that was off a coordinate in a mimic-Supernat). Echo could be in even more places, but even Echo would rather not perform reds and instead use that 2pt Passive Sensor. You could use it on a Defender with a surprise hard 1 in tandem with HLC or Autoblasters, but is straining and going without tokens worth it, especially if you ion yourself? There are also the edge cases of being coordinated a focus for Proton Rockets.

 I'm agreeing with 5050 in thinking that this will best be used on a Reaper. You can better range control/mid base block for those crew, 2 ions will be needed to make you 1 forward, getting stressed allows you to fly more in formation with your friends (especially on top of a stop), the strain is a wash on your 1 agility unless you're Feroph, you can afford to go tokenless with B-wing health (yeah, that's not much. But it's better than a TIE/ln). Etc. The only better candidate one can ask for is a Talent on Redline.

Given its timing and that of R4-P44 and Oddball's ability, the intent is to just do your red, line up the bullseye, and get your Calculate + Lock. Empire isn't too overly-excited at repositioning after a red move. FO might find it interesting, but they already have Proud Trad and Pattern Analyzer, which are both superior to this card unless it happens to be 2pt max.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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Posted (edited)

Finally got around to at least partially reading the rest of the spoiled cards. Curious what people think about the 4 cards below...some thoughts to kick the bee-hive. 

Plo:

  • latest?cb=20200109183340
  • +1 Purple, Re-Enforce, and Crit Regen seems helpful for Arcs & LAATs.
  • On first pass the most useful thing about this looks like the +1 Purple?
  • LAATs have alot of Hull and the first time I proxyed one recently I took 7 Crits so maybe that Regen is pretty good. 
  • The more I invest in a LAAT though the more I expect I will ask myself "Why is this not just another End-Game Jedi pilot?" 

Yoda: 

  • oYKb7ky.png
  • +2 Purple, Purple Coordinate, and Purple Regen...seems pretty **** good. 
  • Random context.....Maul = 12 pts & Fifth Bro = 12 pts?
  • The only thing that makes sense about Purple Points is that none of them make any sense. 
  • Leads me to believe +2 Purple Yoda is going to be bizarrely cheap like Maul who is maybe 10 pts undercosted. 
  • "Slightly" concerned this paired with 2-4 rerolls a round will make Force Management on ETA-2s less challenging/interesting. 
  • However....anything that gets Republic using something besides Jedi copy paste is a net positive I guess. 
  • And this gets us back to the same "Just take another Jedi" puzzle if your rolling with a 60 pt LAAT/Arc.
  • I could see ETA-2 + Athersprite + LAAT + 2 V-Wings being a pretty good list around 199 without room for Crew. 
  • To get Yoda in there you probably would have to drop one of the 2 full Jedi Aces.  

Rex

  • B1ML1y0.png
  • By far the coolest newly spoiled republic card thats not an actual ship or pilot 
  • I really really like how this could interact with Besh V-Wings! 
  • Rex LAAT + i2 V-Wings with or without Besh seems like fun. 
  • Have to be able to spend a focus + have ships shooting after you + have things in bullseye. 
  • On net V-Wings seem like weird little Offense Only Force users especially paired with the LAAT. 
  • Passive mods that are board state dependent and not always on like purple are pretty cool.  

Patience:

  • aBs1KWd.png
  • The main reason I am excited about the ETA2 is its potentially increased Force Burn rate
    • Purple Lock
    • Purple Talon
    • Purple System Phase Repo 
    • Less HP to "trade"
  • That nets out to lead to more situations where the ETA could be on 1 Force Charge which matters a great deal for Non-Purple counter options
  • Unfortunately the ETA like Athers and Kylo/Vader/Boba still hugely benefit from opting into Bumping things. 
  • Its just as effective as staying out of arc via init kills or reposition and becomes a core part of strategy especially against fewer ships. 
  • Patience.....on paper seems to encourage ETA and Athers to opt into Bumping stuff even more. 
  • I hope this and Yoda are expensive enough to really call into question leaning on them for Force Management
  • Is Patience at least a 9 pt upgrade? Probably. If 1 force charge is worth 9 pts then Maul and Yoda should start at 18-20 pts right?  

TLDR: Rex is cool and...

tenor.gif?itemid=13971129

Edited by Boom Owl

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14 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Is Patience at least a 9 pt upgrade? Probably. If 1 force charge is worth 9 pts then Maul and Yoda should start at 18-20 pts right?  

I don't think that's likely.  FFG doesn't seem to hate bumping as much as you.  I almost expect this to be really cheap, 3 or less.  Mostly, it's giving up a damage to regain a force, kind of the inverse of Hate.  I'd expect a 3 point or less initial price.

Is it worth more than that?  Maybe, but I think it unlikely FFG would price it that high.

17 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I could see ETA-2 + Athersprite + LAAT + 2 V-Wings being a pretty good list around 199 without room for Crew. 

I was going to say that seems unrealistic, but it might not be...

  • V-Wings I expect in the high 20s.  They seem a bit stronger than Torrents, so 27-28 I'd guess.  If they're significantly pricier, well, Dedicated Blue Torrents are 27, and like the LAAT will help your aces.
  • LAAT I'd guess at Lambda pricing, maybe a bit higher.
  • Aethersprite, if it's a CLT and a named pilot, is mid-40s to low 50s.

We don't know the price on ETAs yet, but Seventh Sister + Omicron Group Pilot + 2 Barons of the Empire leaves 58 points for a 5th ship, and there's probably some worthwhile ETA in that price range.

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16 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

The more I invest in a LAAT though the more I expect I will ask myself "Why is this not just another End-Game Jedi pilot?" 

The Republic faction identity: 2 die primary, and take Jedi Aces or Ric.

17 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Leads me to believe +2 Purple Yoda is going to be bizarrely cheap like Maul who is maybe 10 pts undercosted.

If Yoda crew is 12 points that would be criminal. I don't know why you think Maul is worth 22 points though. He's in two factions, but is only take on 1.5 pilots (Boba and sometimes Dengar). If he's really only good on one pilot, perhaps it's the pilot that is under costed, not the upgrade.

22 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

By far the coolest newly spoiled republic card that's not an actual ship or pilot 

Agreed. Force crew are kind of bland because force is a little too strong. However, this upgrade requires planning. It would be better if there was an Oddball or other I5 LAAT pilot to take him on, to get that shot out early. 

31 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Is Patience at least a 9 pt upgrade? Probably. If 1 force charge is worth 9 pts then Maul and Yoda should start at 18-20 pts right?  

I'm thinking maximum of 6 at launch. While this encourages bumping, it doesn't encourage running away which was the greater sin of Regen Jedi.

15 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:
  • V-Wings I expect in the high 20s.  They seem a bit stronger than Torrents, so 27-28 I'd guess.  If they're significantly pricier, well, Dedicated Blue Torrents are 27, and like the LAAT will help your aces.
  • LAAT I'd guess at Lambda pricing, maybe a bit higher

V-Wings I expect at A-Wing prices, too, but FFG has consistently overpriced named Clone prices on other ships when they release, so maybe they'll get these wrong, as well. Our model prediction thingie, put the I2 V-Wing at 29 points which is the cost of an I1 RZ-1 A-Wing (and one point more than the I3 TIE/v1?). 

For the LAAT, it's harder to gauge as they have a worse stat line than the Lambda all around, but with the slightly better dial and the ship ability making every one of them is Drea Renthal lite has huge value. Reroll two dice? Great, the majority of the faction is two die attacks, so everyone has target lock, essentially.

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Just now, svelok said:

does hiding behind a cloud at r2/3 count as running away?

It can be. Did the ship run way? Then, yes. Setting up the scenario where a Jedi has a shot through a cloud will be less common than a scenario where a Jedi would just 5 straight + boost + focus/roll. Your scenario is definitely a thing, though.

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