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15 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:
  • Jaycriss 46
  • Bastian 47
  • Joph 48
  • Kare 49
  • Snap 50
  • Jess 51

Feels right.

Though, every time we do this, we get further from the Great Upcosting Utopia

180pt tournament point limits when?

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Posted (edited)

Most of T70s have situational ability and are overcosted. Only Bastian, Pava and Poe have good ability but the last 2 are still overcosted

Positional and manouver abilities are way less worth than thing that improve your dice, yet we have Ello Asty at 55...

Most of those pilots are just generics with high ps that you pay way more than what they impact the game. The whole chassis, generics and maybe Bastian excluded, is overcosted as **** and pays a ridiculous tax to supposed sfoil flexibility which is more a myth than a proper thing at tables.

Sorry but I'm very sensitive about the subject

Edited by Sunitsa

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52 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:
  • Jaycriss 46
  • Bastian 47
  • Joph 48
  • Kare 49
  • Snap 50
  • Jess 51

Snap I'd still keep up at 51, as even without Composure shenanigans, he's still a stupid fast I4 T70. The free boost action has to be worth at least 3 points, right? But other than that, it all looks good. Jaycriss, Joph, and Kare - I never see on the table, so reduction to entice using them seems nice.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

BiAtueS.png

The cycle begins anew for Republic: the release is far too cheap and demolishes even Empire in extended large tournaments. It then keeps getting nerfed to the point that doing it doing well is news.

I love the Republic ships and will buy every ship, but since I only fly them casually, I suppose I'll have to fly him quickly after release before the costs forbid shenanigans.

In what world is the TIE/rb only 33 points? That invalidates the entire chassis of the Agressor aside from Debris Gambit, side turrets, and Kestal's ability.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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Posted (edited)

Lieutenant Kestal (30)    
    Juke (7)    
    Barrage Rockets (8)    
    
Ship total: 45  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 3    
    
Captain Kagi (48)    
    Emperor Palpatine (11)    
    ST-321 (4)    
    
Ship total: 63  Half Points: 32  Threshold: 5    
    
Fifth Brother (42)    
    Homing Missiles (5)    
    
Ship total: 47  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 2    
    
"Countdown" (43)    
    Predator (2)    
    
Ship total: 45  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z187X123WW97WWWY165XWW29WWW162Y394XWW100Y209X127WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

The best I could come up with Kestal. As of now, I believe she's waiting for the full arc missiles. But if you want to out 5th Bro the enemy 5th Bro, Kagi can play Holo with lock redistribution and Countdown's ability blocks the other 5th brother.

But Jango will Jedi-slay leagues ahead of Kestal at her own game.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Jess 51

I ran Jess and the Reds back in wave 4/5 when she was 54pts, I think. 

She's not a big deal in 2e by any means. 

She's double-mods, lite, one time a turn, if you don't shoot at her first, if she has a friend still alive nearby. 

Endgame and alone, she has a blank ability. 

I'd peg her at +1 or +2 above a Red, which, as of wave 6, is costed at 44pts. 

That's 46ish points that I'd maybe be willing to pay for her now... Still barely enough to put a BB on her under or at 50. 

That's my 1 1/2 cents. 

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49 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

The best I could come up with Kestal.

I think a combination of Kestal, Hotshot, Dorsal, and Krennic on Vermeil could be interesting. Together 93. Kestal shoots out the turret on a Vermeil-locked ship, cancels the focus to remove a shield and also removes a token. Vermeil now has his ability and if necessary a lock.

It's very gimmicky, and I still haven't tried it, but I want to at least try it once.

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26 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think a combination of Kestal, Hotshot, Dorsal, and Krennic on Vermeil could be interesting. Together 93. Kestal shoots out the turret on a Vermeil-locked ship, cancels the focus to remove a shield and also removes a token. Vermeil now has his ability and if necessary a lock.

It's very gimmicky, and I still haven't tried it, but I want to at least try it once.

I was thinking Kestal with Ion Turret, Juke, VTG and Lt. Sai with Krennic, ST-321. Sai coordinates the focus to Kestal, giving Sai focus + lock. Kestal evades and fires primary and uses the Optimized Prototype and/or Juke to put damage through. Then Kestal fires the Ion Cannon, Jukes an evade, then spends focus to remove all focus/blank results.

It's a stupid Rube Goldberg setup that makes Kestal cost more than the Grand Inq or the same as Soontir, but the one time is works will be awesome.

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Temmin is a 47pt Blace with Betterburners, on a ship you wouldn't otherwise equip Normieburners to at i4 unless it was like 3pts maybe? So call it 4pts for the extra speed and charge, and that's 51 Temmin. But that's all a wrong starting point if the Blace is too high.

Pava gets stronger the cheaper the rest of the faction gets but 5pts to give a Redspert 1+ reroll per turn seems close to fair. Again depends on Redspert being correct.

:Care:くん has daredevil but not red. Daredevil Blace is 49, Daredevil is bad on Blaces, call it a wash and leave it at 2 is 49 :Care:.

Joph is a Redspert with, uh, I guess that ability is worth a point or two? Whatever, 46 Joph.

Still support nerfs to the good over buffs to the middle, though.

1 hour ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

In what world is the TIE/rb only 33 points? That invalidates the entire chassis of the Agressor aside from Debris Gambit, side turrets, and Kestal's ability.

seven points cheaper is seven points cheaper? side turrets are very superior to front/back turrets? small base mobility? new content shouldn't be shackled because extended only conversion kit content has bland design?

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3 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I was thinking Kestal with Ion Turret, Juke, VTG and Lt. Sai with Krennic, ST-321. Sai coordinates the focus to Kestal, giving Sai focus + lock. Kestal evades and fires primary and uses the Optimized Prototype and/or Juke to put damage through. Then Kestal fires the Ion Cannon, Jukes an evade, then spends focus to remove all focus/blank results.

It's a stupid Rube Goldberg setup that makes Kestal cost more than the Grand Inq or the same as Soontir, but the one time is works will be awesome.

Too expensive, I think, for your Kestal, and Sai does not add enough. Vermeil also dishes out quite a bit.

The other allows you to add 5th brother with homings - pushing that crit onto a target that lost shields - and something else.
That last something can be GI, Soontir, but also e.g. Vynder with protons and passive. Keep in mind that the target is likely to lose a green token, so Vynder and Vermeil do more damage. And once the lock is set up, Vermeil can also toss Vynder a focus or reload action.
Could also be procket Ved Foslo (my favorite here). There are a couple of good i4s in empire, and that 4th ship should also be i4 or lower to make more use of Kestal's shield&token removal Inc. The problem with many is that they are too cheap to fit nicely together. Procket Ved leaves points for a tac officer, and that makes coordinating a focus to Ved really nice for that procket. His ability should also make lining up the bullseye much easier.

But it's a bad list because of Kestal and because it doesn't simply take Soontir+GI, again because of Kestal.

 

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5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:
  • Jaycriss 46
  • Bastian 47
  • Joph 48
  • Kare 49
  • Snap 50
  • Jess 51

Feels right.

 

Joph down to 47.  The ability just makes him annoying to focus fire unless you've already dropped his shields.  It's maybe 2 pts over a Red Squadron...maybe and I'm not even convinced on that.  Jaycriss is also pretty situational, +4 over blue squadron is really iffy for all the conditions.  Kare, Jess, Snap and Bastian probably Fine.  Ello and Nein legitimately fine as is, Tallon Rolls + Actions are super uderrated.  Poe needs a drop of 3-4. 

 

As a T-70 fan, Joph, Kare and Jaycriss are way more situational than they look and I've struggled to get any value out of them.  Whenver their pilot ability both goes off an is relevant, you have a "they finally did the thing!" moment, then they go back to being glorified generics.  Ello and Nein are at least hard to pin down I5s and generally do well.  Poe is overcosted in a way that prevents him from slotting into lists.  Bastian is easily the best value for his points with his action economy.  Pava has a droid tax, but reliable also gets value although she rarely uses her I3 for anything.  Snap is noticably over-costed after the Composure interaction nerf.

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Posted (edited)

Bottom line is that the devs prefer to make incremental changes over drastic "perfect" fixes, and I respect that. 

Just in case the meta proves that a small drop was actually a big deal, and thus prevent an, "oh, shoot; now we gotta hike the points back up" situation. 

 

____

Edit: 

An overcosted pilot might actually be correct depending on Faction options. 

I've advocated overcosted Resistance since very early in wave 2 backed by undercosted tech Upgrades, but I digress. 

Edited by Bucknife

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Joph down to 47.  The ability just makes him annoying to focus fire unless you've already dropped his shields.  It's maybe 2 pts over a Red Squadron...maybe and I'm not even convinced on that.  Jaycriss is also pretty situational, +4 over blue squadron is really iffy for all the conditions.  Kare, Jess, Snap and Bastian probably Fine.  Ello and Nein legitimately fine as is, Tallon Rolls + Actions are super uderrated.  Poe needs a drop of 3-4. 

Mostly, I like it because it's a pretty sequence. 46-47-48-49-50-51.

Edited by theBitterFig

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@Bucknife

Absolutely. Just make two of the arcs Obi/Plo.

Obi-Wan Kenobi — Delta-7 Aethersprite 49
Calibrated Laser Targeting 4
Ship Total: 53
Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2
   
Plo Koon — Delta-7 Aethersprite 45
Calibrated Laser Targeting 4
Ship Total: 49
Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2
   
“Wolffe” — ARC-170 Starfighter 50
Ship Total: 50
Half Points: 25 Threshold: 5
   
“Jag” — ARC-170 Starfighter 48
Ship Total: 48
Half Points: 24 Threshold: 5

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2 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

That's definitely the answer I was expecting....

 

Actual answer you could probably joust your way into cut in a Hyperspace tournament with Quad Arcs. Not sure much more than that though.

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2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Actual answer you could probably joust your way into cut in a Hyperspace tournament with Quad Arcs. Not sure much more than that though.

 

It's semi-beefy, but ends up being more of a damage sponge than a real obstacle.  Given how tight points are, I don't see room to put in more tools to put it over the top.  It also gets wrecked hard by B-Wings, but nobody plays those, so meh.

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9 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Actual answer you could probably joust your way into cut in a Hyperspace tournament with Quad Arcs. Not sure much more than that though.

That's what I'm super interested in finding out. 

Are quad T65s not competitive in top cuts either? 

Are quad T70s not too cutters? 

Why? 

If there are any "four ofs" that "deserve" to be top-table competitive worthy, aren't these the droids we're looking for?

All I can think of in real life are...

Quad Fangs. 

Barely. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

That's what I'm super interested in finding out. 

Are quad T65s not competitive in top cuts either? 

Are quad T70s not too cutters? 

Why? 

If there are any "four ofs" that "deserve" to be top-table competitive worthy, aren't these the droids we're looking for?

All I can think of in real life are...

Quad Fangs. 

Barely. 

Im not sure I follow any of the questions here so ill answer a different one I think I read instead. 

Quad T65 and Quad T70 could probably make cut at a hyper sure no problem. Quad Arcs, Quad T65, and Quad T70 all made occasional cuts even back when hyperspace was the property of  Soontir and Inertial Diapers. 

For current hyper, Poe + 3 T70 is good enough to cause trouble in cut. Luke + 3 T65....little more problematic with Boba running around, it would be better off as Luke Braylen Ten Jake and then could probably win a few games in cut. 

Even Quad B-Wings made cut at Extended events during the early days of 2.0 in the before times when Proton Torps was 9 pts and destroying the game with its friend Dash.

There are probably a couple 4 ship copy paste ship type lists you could optimize in Hyper and win a bunch of games with.

Edited by Boom Owl

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8 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Bottom line is that the devs prefer to make incremental changes over drastic "perfect" fixes, and I respect that. 

This also leads to a boiling frog situation though. Drastic changes shake up more even if they are not actually important

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You know what list is good? 4 auzitucks with intimidation sabine.

4 hours ago, Bucknife said:

If there are any "four ofs" that "deserve" to be top-table competitive worthy, aren't these the droids we're looking for?

 

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