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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

No joke, significantly better. Someone get Blair Bunke to weigh in!

If Prockets are good at 6, Concussions can definitely be 5. Maybe. I guess I'll never stop griping about classic/iconic/thematic secondary weapons 😛

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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13 minutes ago, svelok said:

In third edition, all Jedi locks should be purple

In third edition, Force should just be fundamentally different.

I like the idea of a re-roll on anything (like 2.0 Han). Super easy to waste the effect and you never know if you'll get the benefit out of it, but you can use it to manipulate all kinds of things.

But you definitely need to focus if you want to get a good effect out of it.

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17 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I think the spoiled one requires lock.

It does, so I'm suspecting it will be something like Synchronized Console; you need a High-initiative pilot to get it, but he's kind of sharing his initiative with his friends for locking purposes. May or may not be worth it.

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14 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I think the spoiled one requires lock.

So a charge limited Targeting Sync that requires the carrier to hit the intended target for there to be a benefit for the squad and paints a massive bullseye on the Thread Tracer carrier. While still better than the individual ships going for their own locks I think it'll see about the same amount of play as Tar Sync does now. So probably not much influence.

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6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

The interceptor is special because it has 3 hull. Take a Bwing instead at i2. Is it still stupid to risk some shields for a great shot next turn? I don't think so

Blue Squadron Pilot (41)    
    Passive Sensors (2)    
    
Ship total: 43  Half Points: 22  Threshold: 4

Could this build be useful? B-wings still burn down fast for their points.

 

4 hours ago, jagsba said:

Very much one of few things I dislike about playing cis swarm. The thrill of deciding to lock isn't there. Calc is almost always the right action

Mixed Hyena + Vulture swarms return some of this tension in the midgame. Do you lock with that Hyena, or take calc to support the rest of the swarm? With a missile vulture swarm it might be reasonable to lock with some and calc with the others, as you can share the calcs (though I think missile vultures are too fragile to be reliable).

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What I am missing here in the TL discussion, esp for bread and butter ships with just one action: the opponent's counterplay.

You target lock, save it for turn 2, your target has boosted or double positioned away, and you target locked for nothing. 

That is another factor why you sometimes just default to focus.

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2 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

What I am missing here in the TL discussion, esp for bread and butter ships with just one action: the opponent's counterplay.

You target lock, save it for turn 2, your target has boosted or double positioned away, and you target locked for nothing. 

That is another factor why you sometimes just default to focus.

Then you TLed to scare away an ace and can bully some other ship

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6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

which reminds me, DoT vs Burst/Alpha is another topic worthy of a lot of discussion

With highly-moded defense running around (Jedi, Boba, Whisper, Soontir, etc), I'm leaning towards Alpha Strike being favored now. 2-dice attacks do almost nothing, no matter how highly modded. A quick rule of thumb for the quality of a list is how many fully-modded 3-dice attacks it can produce.

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1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

What I am missing here in the TL discussion, esp for bread and butter ships with just one action: the opponent's counterplay.

You target lock, save it for turn 2, your target has boosted or double positioned away, and you target locked for nothing. 

That is another factor why you sometimes just default to focus.

Big diff between ships that have lock + focus v just focus: you can save it for double mods. If you know the opponent will skidaddle away from a killbox: LOCKING ON.

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2 hours ago, QQMoore said:

With highly-moded defense running around (Jedi, Boba, Whisper, Soontir, etc), I'm leaning towards Alpha Strike being favored now. 2-dice attacks do almost nothing, no matter how highly modded. A quick rule of thumb for the quality of a list is how many fully-modded 3-dice attacks it can produce.

That number will never likely go above 4. Rarely does it go above 3.

Meanwhile, single- or double-modded 2-dice attacks easily reach 8. Time on target is equally important. Boba at R1 of vultures is taking 3-dice attacks. Boba at R2 of vultures isn't getting re-rolls. Maul is essential but is also only one force point. That and a focus get used up fast and re-rolls roll blanks as often as not.

The days of 2-dice attacks being useless or nearly useless have not yet returned.

Now on the other hand, Seven Procket Z-95s would have a field day with Boba. Keep a base-width of space between them and fly them sort of loosely and you'll easily get a couple of single-modded 5-dice attacks off...

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39 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That number will never likely go above 4. Rarely does it go above 3.

Meanwhile, single- or double-modded 2-dice attacks easily reach 8. Time on target is equally important. Boba at R1 of vultures is taking 3-dice attacks. Boba at R2 of vultures isn't getting re-rolls. Maul is essential but is also only one force point. That and a focus get used up fast and re-rolls roll blanks as often as not.

The days of 2-dice attacks being useless or nearly useless have not yet returned.

Now on the other hand, Seven Procket Z-95s would have a field day with Boba. Keep a base-width of space between them and fly them sort of loosely and you'll easily get a couple of single-modded 5-dice attacks off...

I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with the Z's. Single arc, single action, easy to blow, etc: just don't engage immediately with Boba and force them to split up. Have your other ship (Fenn, Bossk, Assaj, etc.) also split/wreck things. If you **** up and they catch you with their dream shots, Slave 1 away from the block and reinforce. A reinforce + reroll + 2 agi + force ship takes about 1.4 dmg from a single mod procket. Then dump on them with a payload and run.

7 procket Z's look good, but 4 + Thicc friend or 5 + friend seem better. If you take 2 procket Z's + 2 naked Z's, you can fit Boba + Slave 1 + 1 or 2 upgrades (probably Fearless + payload)

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23 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I don't think the X-Wing community has discussed the target lock action in nearly enough depth. 

I am thinking maybe instead of trying to figure out lists or ships we try to actually understand how strategy related to the target lock action works first. 

Beyond the Rule of 11. 

CourteousRightHectorsdolphin-small.gif

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, gennataos said:

What's the math and positional decision on when to spend the locks?  

Plus one on what others have said. Follow up position is quite a factor. Judging the angle of approach and where the merge could go, you can vaguely map the action chain and work out the sort of mods you'll be getting and when. Things change ofc, but you can adapt if you already have some timing ideas.

The TL action is fun to play around with missile v1's, x1's, FCS. The reward for good timing is pretty big.

Example: 1 x1 sits off centre at R3, locks, 2nd goes in for a sure block, locks, 3rd focusses, probably says oops, and prays.

Next turn, those with locks focus or flip, the one without blocks/hides and locks. The continuing slow burn of very painful shots building up and rotating round is cool. 

The 2 v1s just carry PS and cheat the system.

Edited by Cuz05

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32 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

the ace engage is like 90% of my games with arcdodgers

I just use it for everything 😛

I think the trap a lot of players fall into is focusing on their first engagement rather than on how they plan on keeping the momentum up coming out of the first engagement. It's rare for an Alpha Strike to determine a match unless the opponent fully opts into it. So if you're going all in on the first round or two of shooting but not giving yourself a way to keep up the pressure, you can throw away an early advantage.

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20 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I just use it for everything 😛

I think the trap a lot of players fall into is focusing on their first engagement rather than on how they plan on keeping the momentum up coming out of the first engagement. It's rare for an Alpha Strike to determine a match unless the opponent fully opts into it. So if you're going all in on the first round or two of shooting but not giving yourself a way to keep up the pressure, you can throw away an early advantage.

I agree.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

on-topic question, I guess ultimately about how to treat an enemy flank.

Moved to the new thread. I leave it here, but want to add discussion in the dedicated thread.

(I'm rewriting because I have a hard time properly explaining what I mean, as it's a mix of topics that are imo connected)

1) I think a difference between a good flanking element and a good jousting element is their engagement+1. The good flanker can abort the flank and quickly come back. He can also follow up in the +1 turn, but in a relatively safe way. He does not have to move into range 1 of everything and eat shots. The good jouster has ideally a 1 straight to get another joust turn, or a long k-turn to get past everything and keep shooting - even without mods.
2) I also like to think about target priority. I agree that not every game has a clear 1-2-3-4 of targets. So assume for the sake of discussion that it's against a list where you do have such a clear priority. Sometimes, only one or two targets really matter in a list.
3) And to borrow from a third topic, it is generally understood that players could ignore obstacles much more often but instead they treat them as impassable walls. Sometimes, something in the game should be ignored but we don't because it's there.

So, bringing these three together:

Would your gifs lose validity if they would identify the main target and then ignore the rest of the list? When is that a good or bad approach to engagements?

My uncertain answer is that we could do that much more often - when I joust honorably and my opponent does a joust+flank, and one of my ships get focus fired at by 2-3 ships, then it does not immediately matter whether those shots include a flanking ship or only straight jousting ships. The overall direction of the game was not really changed. The flanker might as well have been in the jousting group for all I care. What does matter, however, is whether I turn my entire squad into the flanker to "scare" it off. That changes the rest of the game much more.
At the same time, when I flank with an X-wing and the rest of my Xwings jousts honorably, then it also does not matter immediately whether my opponent shoots at the flanker or focus fires one of the straight jousters. The bottom line of the engagement is that I shot with e.g. 3 ships/elements at the same target, and he shot with his 3 ships/elements at the same target. The split into flanking element and jousting element matters, but for different reasons.

So, how are they distinct?

My own answer is that it matters because of positioning, mainly in two ways:

1) your own: ensuring shot number by a better time on target, and getting high quality shots. For example, k-turns keep guns on target at the cost of a mod. A flanker, as you wrote, can achieve the same while keeping his modification. That's the essential benefit and reason to flank in the first place.
2) your opponent: at the same time decreasing shot number&quality of your opponent through blocks and arcdodges

When I look at the gif with the Ghost (representing at least in my example here a high HP brusier that will survive the initial engagement), what happens if the TIEs decide to turn into the northernmost X-Wing? They recieve the same number of shots while taking on a ship they can remove much sooner - unlike the bruiser. The cost they pay for it is that the Ghost does not have to k-turn behind them and instead can keep firing shots at higher quality.

 

With all that set up: is it sometimes feasible to just ignore enemy ships to follow your target priority, even if that comes at the cost of higher quality shots? When would or would that not be the case?

Edited by GreenDragoon

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