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1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

Drop cannons too far and we might have troublesome times.

From what? Swarmed Scyks are the only cannon carrier that I see being troublesome at any point.

1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

Anyways, imho FFG dropped the ball on both B-wing and TIE Brute, at least themewise. Both should have had 0 primary, but cannon discount. Cannon play time

0 die primary is an interesting game space to play with. You would still get a range 1 one die attack. I'd almost say remove the primary altogether, but that would make out of arc abilities like Outmaneuver very strong.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Anyways, imho FFG dropped the ball on both B-wing and TIE Brute, at least themewise. Both should have had 0 primary, but cannon discount. Cannon play time :)

But what if I want Braylen to do damage when he hits something?

To avoid double posting: Dasholes of the forums, is this a viable Dash? Or would it be better to make him self-sufficient and have a fat wingman?

Dash Rendar (85)    
    Trick Shot (4)    
    Bistan (10)    
    Perceptive Copilot (8)    
    Outrider (14)    
    
Ship total: 121  Half Points: 61  Threshold: 5    
    
AP-5 (32)    
    K-2SO (8)    
    
Ship total: 40  Half Points: 20  Threshold: 3    
    
Cavern Angels Zealot (39)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 39  Half Points: 20  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z39X133WW77W54WW157WY72XW314WWWY0XWWWW142&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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4 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Maybe we start seeing missile Scyks now, with dropped missile prices (if we get a heavy 2 big ship meta, maybe even crazy Ion missile Scyk and Dace, both points dropped), but I find it still doubtful: Ordance, esp ln the low ini Cartel, is so much points on a green die dependent single action ship, high danger of just giving your opponent easy points.

Two quick things to say on this:

First, yes a couple missiles got a discount but I don't see that as a huge deal. It's been needed for a long time. Well actually Procket Scyks might be kinda good now, but maybe not that good. More importantly, torpedoes went down a point. 5 point APTs are a really big deal. Quinn Jast really likes 5-point APTs. 5 pont Ion Torps means you can get a 4-attack for cheaper than Concussions. Torps will typically be better than Missiles, but missiles can be worthwhile at the right price, but of course, that's still something Z-95s have access to. 

Second, we see that Thread Tracers are getting a reprint with 2 charges. It's still a missile upgrade but requires a lock. I'm guessing it's something that will go very nicely on the likes of Serissu to get locks for all your Scyk buddies. Torps and Missiles should be viable upgrades, and one could argue that it's safer to have control through those than through cannons since it's more limited. Whether they are currently viable is kind of a different matter, but it's something special the Scyks get.

4 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Filler? Depends on the role of the filler. If it is just for some more hull or one gun more on the table you might go Z95 or MGT, or Nom. But if you need a versatile blocker? Scyk is faster and more survivable then these two, and also has 5K, which makes it possible to get out of the block alive by jumping over the scrum, live another day,  and maybe later do it one more time.

And this is why I'm saying that 26/28 point Scyks would still probably have a place, even without weapons (which are often but not always their main selling point).

Cannon Scyks are doing quite well right now. If cannon Scyks go down by about one point they'll be doing even better. Naked Scyks are doing okay but they're a little niche. If the naked Cartel Spacer goes up one and the naked TPV goes down one, I don't see them disappearing entirely. I guess that's my point.

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17 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Dasholes of the forums, is this a viable Dash? Or would it be better to make him self-sufficient and have a fat wingman?

Imo the first one to try is with Luke

DashLuke

(85) Dash Rendar [YT-2400 Light Freighter]
(8) Perceptive Copilot
(10) Bistan
(2) Contraband Cybernetics
(4) Trick Shot
(14) Outrider
Points: 123

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(1) Instinctive Aim
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 76

Total points: 199

There's probably a better version, but I gave it a try and it crushed 6 Strikers 200-0

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Imo the first one to try is with Luke

Why not Han?

Dash Rendar (85)    
    Lone Wolf (5)    
    Outrider (14)    
Ship total: 104
    
Han Solo (79)    
    Lando Calrissian (2)    
    Novice Technician (4)    
    Engine Upgrade (7)    
    Millennium Falcon (3)        
Ship total: 95
    
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z39X124WWWWW157WY42XWWW44W53W107WW154&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I still think Han/Title is worth more straight-up points than Dash/Title. That Han pulls way more weight than that Dash from my experience, but it could work.

Oh, regarding Lando and NovTech: Lando if you can, boost if you have to. If you don't roll a focus with Lando, re-roll. I forget the odds on Lando, I think it's 43% you'll get at least one focus, but with the re-roll it gets much better (don't remember how much)

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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If Spacers went up a point, I couldn't do 3 Spacers, 2 Bounty Hunters again and I would be sad.

I'm quite happy running Spacers with no hardpoint, it can sometimes take up room that detracts from their purpose in the list.

25pt is very neat.

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Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I disagree

That's fair and perfectly valid. Dash just gets R1'd so easily and dies every time it happens. Boost is more valuable than Roll, and Han typically punches harder anyway (free rerolls > conditional extra dice).

Maybe I'm just really bad at flying Dash, but I find I get 4-dice attacks with Han more often than I do with Dash. Everyone knows exactly what Dash wants to do every turn, and it's very hard to opt out. If you do you end up stressed and unmodded, which is almost worse, and if you don't have those handy debris clouds nearby you're pretty much screwed.

I have successfully beat a Kimogila Swarm with a Super-Dash/AP-5 list once, mainly because I knew my game plan and my opponent played right onto my hand. It's just so easy to leave Dash in a bad place and he's way more fragile than a 7B Jedi for a lot more points.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Oh, regarding Lando and NovTech: Lando if you can, boost if you have to. If you don't roll a focus with Lando, re-roll. I forget the odds on Lando, I think it's 43% you'll get at least one focus, but with the re-roll it gets much better (don't remember how much)

I just don't like Lando crew.  I think the only positive outcome on Lando is Focus and another token.  Focus only is neutral, and Evade when I want a focus is a bad outcome (since I could just use a focus action).

  • Focus/Focus or Focus/Evade will happen: (4/64 + 12/64) + (1 - 16/64)*(16/64) = 43.75%
  • A single focus token will happen if you don't get focus plus on the first role, then roll focus/blank: (1 - 16/64)*(12/64) = 14.06%
  • Zero focus tokens will happen when you don't get focus plus, then roll no eyes: (1 - 16/64) * ( 1 - 16/64 - 12/64) = 42.19%

So as often as not, you'll wind up with no focus tokens as a focus-token-plus something.  I guess that comes out in the wash, but I'd rather have a focus token that works 100% of the time every time, than spend 2 points for a 42% chance to miss.

To each their own.  I'm never going to equip him.

Edited by theBitterFig

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Maybe I'm just really bad at flying Dash, but I find I get 4-dice attacks with Han more often than I do with Dash. Everyone knows exactly what Dash wants to do every turn, and it's very hard to opt out. If you do you end up stressed and unmodded, which is almost worse, and if you don't have those handy debris clouds nearby you're pretty much screwed.

This is why I never take Dash without Lone Wolf/Kanan.  I can reposition with double mods.  I just don't think Outlander is reliable enough for clearing stress, and having a wide-open dial without trying to fly over rocks makes you a lot less predictable.

Meanwhile, Bistan kinda works with just a single Focus token, if you've got Force + LW.  Just be sure your less important attack goes first.

//

Han might just be better, tho.... or Leia, or Lando...  Boosts and/or double mods are really good.

*edit* Why haven't see seen more Bistan on Han/Lando?  Seems like it's been pretty rare, but probably pretty good...

Edited by theBitterFig

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1 hour ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

 

To avoid double posting: Dasholes of the forums, is this a viable Dash? Or would it be better to make him self-sufficient and have a fat wingman?

 

Unnamed Squadron (200)

Dash Rendar — YT-2400 Light Freighter 85
Bistan 10
Perceptive Copilot 8
Ship Total: 103
 
   
Wedge Antilles — T-65 X-Wing 55
Afterburners 6
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 61
 
   
Jake Farrell — RZ-1 A-Wing 36

Ship Total: 36

 

 

 

The one with wedge is usually the answer to any rebel list question

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, svelok said:

you think dash should be 68 points???

ABSOLUTELY NOT! What gave you that crazy idea? I think Han should be 85ish, and Outrider probably shouldn't be more than 12. I think Dash might be at just the right price now. I guess we'll see.

I think underpriced Han is the current problem more than overpriced Dash. Maybe the list above should work, but the point distribution seems off.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Yes, but only in four to five ship lists, minimal upgrades. Just treat them like heavy X-Wings.

Is an agility and 1 free lock worth 9 points?  Or, to put a finger point on it, are they worth dropping to 4 ships max versus 5?

Edited by Ablazoned

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5 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Yes, but only in four to five ship lists, minimal upgrades. Just treat them like heavy X-Wings.

I personally see Knaves as the Torp boats and Rogues as the dogfighters. 

Double Torp R3 Knaves seem like a messy situation vs a lot of spam lists.

I wouldn't want any of my generics anywhere near those Knaves. 

Even just two R3 Knaves threatening double modded range 1s would be just a nasty problem to face. 

I vote yes on viable, but probably in pairs backed by a closer. 

Double Rogues make that third piece a little trickier to solve, but I think we'll see both. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Han might just be better, tho.... or Leia, or Lando...  Boosts and/or double mods are really good.

Han is not the better choice than Dash if the question is about a list with Dash

If you want an optimized extended list, why even talk about rebels?

Edited by GreenDragoon

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8 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Is an agility and 1 free lock worth 9 points?  Or, to put a finger point on it, are they worth dropping to 4 ships max versus 5?

It can be. Why four ships max? A Knave is only 49 points, leaving 151 points for 4 other ships. You can fit Wedge, Blount, Jake, and a Bandit with room to spare there. Unless you meant 4 E's together, which is the wrong call, I think. Rebels strength is their diversity, and should often be leaned into.

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I still think Han/Title is worth more straight-up points than Dash/Title.

I'd rather just take Han naked, rather than either of those options.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

It can be. Why four ships max? A Knave is only 49 points, leaving 151 points for 4 other ships. You can fit Wedge, Blount, Jake, and a Bandit with room to spare there. Unless you meant 4 E's together, which is the wrong call, I think. Rebels strength is their diversity, and should often be leaned into.

I don't know the answer to my question.  I've had some success with ten/braylenn/Jake/Luke in hyper with 4.  I don't have a sense of extended in the least.  But to address your suggestion, for example, downgrading the knave to a blue squadron escort let's you upgrade the bandit to a CAZ.  And a lot of my squad building adventures end with e-wings either end up downgrading them to buy a better 5th, or settling for 4.

Edited by Ablazoned

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