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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

So what's your hopes for new points?

Aggressive increases to Passive Mod i5 and i6 pilots. 

16 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

What random thing will be raised/lowered for no reason?

Raised: Discord Missiles or Crackshot | Lowered: Anakin Athersprite or *Insert Resistance Crew Here*

16 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Will imperial aces still be one of the 2 top extended archetypes like they have been since 2.0?

Top 5 for sure 

16 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Will it be the death of droids swarms?

Unfortunately probably. If Droid Swarms get nerfed more aggressively than Passive Mod Aces mistakes were made. 

16 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

What thing will spawn the next "NPE" thread?

Whatever new average quality swarm is possible.

Edited by Boom Owl

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28 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Rey playble in HS

Not everything released in 2.0 is hyper, but all hyper is 2.0 releases.

23 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

would Targeting Computer really be any different? 

Yes!  In a list where the other two ships shoot before whisper, you get to choose whisper's lock after all her team has shot...and this added benefit costs exactly zero versus a targeting computer alone.  Not to mention that it lets her see if something higher init dodged her arc, or to get locks on i6s.

 

28 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

So what's your hopes for new points

Prockets, HLC, Crack, and predator off the ban list.

B-22s back in hyper (sear can stay out).  Nantex base cost down, ensnare up by the same.

Maul crew onto the ban list.  Slave one + boba can go up 3 or whatever but not extreme, and stays in hyper.

Provacateurs not below 42.  All named Jedi/Kylo up by 2 points.

Poe to...65?  66 maybe.  Zizi can go up I guess but 5a is sorta carrying the faction, so we'd need those points to come off of something.

B-wings up by 1 plus 1 for words.  Config becomes free.  A-wings and y-wings all down 1 point.

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9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Game still looks like the opponent blundered and was punished for it--a bit more than usual, but not anything outrageous.

The extent of the blunder is obfuscated because Phil, too, messed up the opening. He overemphasizes the use of prockets in the article when IMO that was not the mistake (Funnily enough he calls it greedy to use them. I'd call it greedy not to use them.)

By rule11:

  • Round 1:
    • Fast A-Wings go 5+1, with a boost 8 total. A Nomlumb at the forward edge can not go slower than 1, so 3 total, so 11 overall. Phil could have forced first round shots if he wanted to.
    • interesting to me that Phil chose 3 straight and Kevin 4 straight for Nom. That's a total of 10 and just out of range. That means Phil intentionally did not boost into range of Nom for first round shots even though he could have. It makes sense that he did not because he wanted the strong opening punch.
  • Round 2:
    • They moved 10 total already. Blocks happen at 18. The minimum speed for both is 3 each, so they will end up at least at 16 in range 1.
    • Phil is moving in a block, so he telegraphs already that at least something will be blocked if Kevin wants to.
    • That makes the 3 or 4 straight very reasonable choices. Anything that wants to pass Nom will end up in range1 of two Starvipers
    • Another reasonable choice is the 3 bank.
    • And even the 2 bank with a roll is pretty strong, but it looks like he might have setup too close to the edge for that option. Which is another turn 0 mistake. You need at least a vassal range ruler width to fit the forward roll, which is smaller than an actual range ruler width.
    • That means he had 3-4 good maneuvers out of 7 actual options.
    • Starvipers had 5 so far, and Awings 4. Another 3 straight blocks the 5 straight past blocking Nom. And if he moves again 4 straight with both then he gets to fire at whatever bumped into Nom. If you want to get fancy, roll right to block the 5straight past Nom for Tallie/Zizi, and go with 3 + boost with the one in the back to block the 4+5 straights past Nom there.
    • 4Lom had btw a bank into the rocks. Obviously his first round move should have been a 2-3 bank or 2hard

I think there were plenty options. The strategy of alpha strike is not reliable and only works if your opponent + dice let you get away with it.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Yes!  In a list where the other two ships shoot before whisper, you get to choose whisper's lock after all her team has shot...and this added benefit costs exactly zero versus a targeting computer alone.  Not to mention that it lets her see if something higher init dodged her arc, or to get locks on i6s.

I see that as a problem with Whisper not having to pay for the Lock in the first place.  Like, 3 points for Passive Sensors is a totally fair price on Gina Moonsong or Maarek Stele or Rexler Brath or Hera Syndulla, since they've already paid for the Lock as their ship.  I don't want to jack up the cost on something which doesn't need the cost to be jacked up.  It'd be just as easy to add an errata of the Lock requirement which should have been there in the first place.

*edit*  Just to add: almost no one buys Passive Sensors on Init 5 ships which already have locks, because spending 3 points for the freedom of the late lock from PS isn't worth it.  Sure, it's a bit better than a regular lock, but not that much.  If it was a choice between 4-point Passive Sensors or 3-point Targeting Computer, I bet a lot of Whispers would take TC.

Edited by theBitterFig

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

The strategy of alpha strike is not reliable and only works if your opponent + dice let you get away with it.

 

Alphas do put a lot of weight on a handful of dice.  It's a strategy that,  alost by nature, is not fun for one player.  Either the player getting alphaed looses too many resources to recover from and spends the rest of the game marking time until they lose, or the alpha strike player doesn't get enough value out of those points due to RNG or other factors and also mostly ends up marking time until they lose.  It's rare to get that middle ground where its not crippling to the player getting alphaed or losing out on the alpha.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

Alphas do put a lot of weight on a handful of dice.  It's a strategy that,  alost by nature, is not fun for one player.  Either the player getting alphaed looses too many resources to recover from and spends the rest of the game marking time until they lose, or the alpha strike player doesn't get enough value out of those points due to RNG or other factors and also mostly ends up marking time until they lose.  It's rare to get that middle ground where its not crippling to the player getting alphaed or losing out on the alpha.

While I agree, please note that I was specifically talking about the two lists involved. An alpha strike strategy should not have worked.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I hope we get 50 point TIE Silencers, then everyone hates it, then they get nerfed back to 51.

I'd rather FFG bites the bullet and creates a ban-list and just bans them on Vader.  There's no where other than Vader where they're a problem.  Someone will say "Whisper with Fifth Brother!" but honestly, would Targeting Computer really be any different?  To that end, I'd just errata Passive Sensors to require a Lock action on the ship. :P

I definitely think Passive Sensors should require a Lock action to equip it.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Aggressive increases to Passive Mod i5 and i6 pilots. 

Raised: Discord Missiles or Crackshot | Lowered: Anakin Athersprite or *Insert Resistance Crew Here*

I'm onboard with all of this, except Rey Falcon increase (but maybe along with crew drops?)

3 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

Poe to...65?  66 maybe.  Zizi can go up I guess but 5a is sorta carrying the faction, so we'd need those points to come off of something.

Low Poe!  Don't see what Zizi has done, performance-wise, which would merit an increase, so hope she doesn't suffer too much.  

Has 5A been carrying the faction?  Seems jousting lists like the one @Flurpy has run has done better.

3 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

Poe still at 68 is one of the 2.0 mystery for me

The more I play lists without him, which historically hasn't been much until lately, the more I agree with this.

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4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

The extent of the blunder is obfuscated because Phil, too, messed up the opening. He overemphasizes the use of prockets in the article when IMO that was not the mistake (Funnily enough he calls it greedy to use them. I'd call it greedy not to use them.)

By rule11:

  • Round 1:
    • Fast A-Wings go 5+1, with a boost 8 total. A Nomlumb at the forward edge can not go slower than 1, so 3 total, so 11 overall. Phil could have forced first round shots if he wanted to.
    • interesting to me that Phil chose 3 straight and Kevin 4 straight for Nom. That's a total of 10 and just out of range. That means Phil intentionally did not boost into range of Nom for first round shots even though he could have. It makes sense that he did not because he wanted the strong opening punch.
  • Round 2:
    • They moved 10 total already. Blocks happen at 18. The minimum speed for both is 3 each, so they will end up at least at 16 in range 1.
    • Phil is moving in a block, so he telegraphs already that at least something will be blocked if Kevin wants to.
    • That makes the 3 or 4 straight very reasonable choices. Anything that wants to pass Nom will end up in range1 of two Starvipers
    • Another reasonable choice is the 3 bank.
    • And even the 2 bank with a roll is pretty strong, but it looks like he might have setup too close to the edge for that option. Which is another turn 0 mistake. You need at least a vassal range ruler width to fit the forward roll, which is smaller than an actual range ruler width.
    • That means he had 3-4 good maneuvers out of 7 actual options.
    • Starvipers had 5 so far, and Awings 4. Another 3 straight blocks the 5 straight past blocking Nom. And if he moves again 4 straight with both then he gets to fire at whatever bumped into Nom. If you want to get fancy, roll right to block the 5straight past Nom for Tallie/Zizi, and go with 3 + boost with the one in the back to block the 4+5 straights past Nom there.
    • 4Lom had btw a bank into the rocks. Obviously his first round move should have been a 2-3 bank or 2hard

I think there were plenty options. The strategy of alpha strike is not reliable and only works if your opponent + dice let you get away with it.

Just read the blog and I feel like both of them deployed their ships poorly and both followed up with poor maneuver choices afterwards.  I love Phil's blog, but I don't think this is a "good" game.  I also think Cova with three A-Wings ends up with Cova on an island, dead, a lot...but kudos to him for doing his own thing.

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2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

How similar is her ability to a force point?

It does everything force does except guarantee double mods on offense, and can do something force can't with the evade.  So pretty similar, which is why I think she can stand to go up, but I still think resistance needs something to come down to balance cheap zizi getting fair.

 

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

Don't see what Zizi has done, performance-wise, which would merit an increase, so hope she doesn't suffer too much.  

Has 5A been carrying the faction?  Seems jousting lists like the one @Flurpy has run has done better.

5A (or 5 ships with at least Zizi +2A), at least in vassal x-wing tournaments, people who make resistance lists choose 5A.  I chose a cova/Jess/Bastian/Kaz squad but I'm in the great minority, it seems.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Fearless is the "default" choice on one ship in the faction, unlike the other 2...

I'm waiting for the Scum only, "Desperate" talent...

1 pt. 

"After you partially execute a maneuver, you may gain 1 STRAIN to perform an action, even while stressed. 

EDIT: Non-limited pilots only.

....straight broken at 1pt on any scum aces...

Edited by Bucknife

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21 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

I think it's fine that faction-specific talents are more efficient than generic ones.  I love that fanatical, fearless, and heroic are often default choices in their faction.  Faction flavor is tasty to me!

Wonder if Ruthless can get in on that action?

 I’d be super okay with seeing that in most imp lists. It’s not good but it’s fun and fluffy.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

5A (or 5 ships with at least Zizi +2A), at least in vassal x-wing tournaments, people who make resistance lists choose 5A.  I chose a cova/Jess/Bastian/Kaz squad but I'm in the great minority, it seems.

Ah, can’t say I pay much attention to the online events. Aside from @kenoslaw, I don’t recall 5A at live events in the last points update. 

Edited by gennataos

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40 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Wonder if Ruthless can get in on that action?

 I’d be super okay with seeing that in most imp lists. It’s not good but it’s fun and fluffy.

Ruthless could be a reasonable default, but what imperial ships are getting flown again these days?  Vader...duchess...uh... academy pilots?  Maybe tempests?  Vermeil...maybe rac.  There's some room for ruthless in there, I guess, just not much.

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43 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Ah, can’t say I pay much attention to the online events.

What...what are you going off of then I guess?  GSP had four 100ish player extended events, and vassal is running leagues and tournaments in hyper.  Lots of good data, that.

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8 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

What...what are you going off of then I guess?  GSP had four 100ish player extended events, and vassal is running leagues and tournaments in hyper.  Lots of good data, that.

In person events I paid attention to, after the January points update and prior to all the shut down.  I guess I could have done a meta-wing search and see T-70 heavy lists in higher numbers, with better performance, along with some Rey lists (in much smaller numbers).

If people are running a bunch of 5A in online events, okay, I'll take your word for it.  It doesn't look like it's propping up the faction, though.  

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

 GSP had four 100ish player extended events, and vassal is running leagues and tournaments in hyper.  Lots of good data, that.

698206512794828841.png
online play generally suffers from the meme list effect, where everyone intentionally plays “jank”.

Additionally, a couple thousand competitive games seems like a lot but given the number of cards in the pool for extended that’s actually not enough data points per card to be even close to statistically relevant 

Edited by Kyle Ren

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kyle Ren said:

online play generally suffers from the meme list effect, where everyone intentionally plays “jank”.

This is an interesting point, because while you can look at a lot of lists and call 'em jank fairly, it's also quite clear that the not-that filters upwards in performance, even at those events.

 

1 hour ago, Kyle Ren said:

Additionally, a couple thousand competitive games seems like a lot but given the number of cards in the pool for extended that’s actually not enough data points per card to be even close to statistically relevant 

I mean, you could say something similar about pretty much any given x-wing 2.0 "season".  But you don't need to establish non-overlapping confidence intervals on a cards win rate at 0.9 power, or a pilot's WAR to draw some helpful and confident conclusions.  Depending on your priors vis a vis how people build lists, it's at least obvious, for example, that CIS 8-droid swarms, specifically those that include hyenas, have a cluster of win rates that doesn't come close to overlapping anyone else's.

As for 5A specifically and online data, I guess I could assemble numbers...one moment....okay so just under half of the current VXT's resistance lists is 5A (or like 3A+2, 4A+1) it looks like.  I don't have performances yet, though.

Edited by Ablazoned

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