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Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast

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6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

God no! That's where I at least draw the line, but I think the diversity of hyperspace is pretty much perfect. 35 ships is a ton!

but what about that other ship I *cant* play?

WHAT ABOUT THAT SHIP!?!?!?!?!?!

If I can't play *that* ship, is this even really a game?

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8 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

God no! That's where I at least draw the line, but I think the diversity of hyperspace is pretty much perfect. 35 ships is a ton!

Same team, but I do think the game generally gets better with less in it. Comparisons to the core box are at least directionally what I prefer.

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8 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

God no! That's where I at least draw the line, but I think the diversity of hyperspace is pretty much perfect. 35 ships is a ton!

Same team, but I do think the game generally gets better with less in it. Comparisons to the core box are at least directionally what I prefer.

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2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

but what about that other ship I *cant* play?

WHAT ABOUT THAT SHIP!?!?!?!?!?!

If I can't play *that* ship, is this even really a game?

I know that enlightened centrism is basically a curse by now, but I pledge guilty. I'm an enlightened centrist. There's something between 2 ships and 60 ships, right at about 30-35, that seems magical to me.

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1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Are you telling me that the best xwing would be core sets games of academies vs red squadron rookies?

 

59 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Pretty close yea.

I think this is where I fundamentally disagree. 

IMO, X-Wing is and should continue to be more than just FASBSMSRDOS.  New mechanics are not bad.  The pricing on them might be bad (1 point slave 1 is ridiculous), but they are not intrinsically bad.

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4 minutes ago, Something Wicked said:

IMO, X-Wing is and should continue to be more than just FASBSMSRDOS.  New mechanics are not bad.  The pricing on them might be bad (1 point slave 1 is ridiculous), but they are not intrinsically bad.

I'm ok with other stuff. It's not that I would ban everything entirely if it was up to me. (I'm mostly not ok with force but thats the exception)

Turrets and double reposition and other things are fine, they just have to be "bad" while FASBSMSRDOS are "good". Ignore Boba and Vultures, and current hyperspace Falcons seem like a good example of a turret ship that's at a healthy level relative to forward arc stuff. ARC170s are rear arcs but fine, and Vonreg (not Holo tho) seems to pack double mods but be fine. That stuff's fine, we're all fine here.

If it's illustrative, the only ship in hyperspace that I would personally remove is the RZ2. Combine that with a rules overhaul of force and I'm basically happy with the stuff in Hyper, though Boba gets a sideways glance and there are certainly some balance issues but that's separate from gameplay issues.

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29 minutes ago, svelok said:

I'm ok with other stuff. It's not that I would ban everything entirely if it was up to me. (I'm mostly not ok with force but thats the exception)

Turrets and double reposition and other things are fine, they just have to be "bad" while FASBSMSRDOS are "good". Ignore Boba and Vultures, and current hyperspace Falcons seem like a good example of a turret ship that's at a healthy level relative to forward arc stuff. ARC170s are rear arcs but fine, and Vonreg (not Holo tho) seems to pack double mods but be fine. That stuff's fine, we're all fine here.

If it's illustrative, the only ship in hyperspace that I would personally remove is the RZ2. Combine that with a rules overhaul of force and I'm basically happy with the stuff in Hyper, though Boba gets a sideways glance and there are certainly some balance issues but that's separate from gameplay issues.

If you ban the RZ2 you must also ban the Tie/SF because they're analogous.

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3 minutes ago, ccjacks3 said:

If you ban the RZ2 you must also ban the Tie/SF because they're analogous.

But boost!

I'm happy with X Wings vs TIEs, but Holy Yoda, I would run out of new lists to fly very quickly.

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Just now, Cuz05 said:

But boost!

I'm happy with X Wings vs TIEs, but Holy Yoda, I would run out of new lists to fly very quickly.

I fly Resistance and Republic so I definitely don't want RZ2s banned. I'm wondering what they'll move in and out of Hyperspace in the next go round 😟

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54 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I wish a new article would come out so you guys can be mad about something new.

"You guys" applies to whomever reads that and infers it applies to them

 it's almost like when people are mad about something and it doesn't get changed they stay mad at it 

for example, I've been mad at Boba for almost two years, and probably will remain mad at him until third edition happens 

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It feels weird to say this, but Poe is bad

 

It's like Dallas or Toronto or Overwatch, I like them, they seem like they should be good...but they aren't winning, so even being as charitable as possible, you do have to win at some point to be not bad.  And of course "bad" because we must define such things, is an element that will not produce a level of value that justifies it's cost investment in an average game in relation to other elements available to you or that are likely to appear on the other side of the table.

 

Trying to unpack why an I6 that can double mod or double repo isn't getting enough value for the majority of players is an interesting challenge because it seems like that should be enough, but as most people seem to be learning from Vonreg...not so much.  Why does not get enough value compared to Soontir?  Part of it is definitely cost as Poe is far more prohibitively expensive at 68 (a full 13pts more than any other T-70, a cost difference mostly reserved for the likes of Force Users who have the benefit of passive mods), while Soontir being 15pts less is easier to put in a list that isn't almost completely centered around him being successful.  There's also the difference in actions, both Poe and Soontir can double repo, but Soontir is just better at it.  Poe has to close his S-Foils and if he double repos, he has no mods outside of *maybe* a heroic and if does land that bullseye, he's just going back up to full attack value.  If he doesn't land the bullseye, he throwing 2 unmodded dice which is pretty egregious for a 68pt ship.  If Soontir double repos, he still gets full dice, if he lands the bullseye, he gets that plus a mod.  This points to why X-Wings have never really been arc dodgers even with access to both repos and at high initiative. 

 

Then you have to wrestle with locking yourself into blues on a ship with no blue hard turns and whose fastest blue straight is a 3.  An R4 helps that, but again, Poe loses more to repoing than Soontir (especially barrels rolls which is the best way to duck arcs at close range).  then you have to wrestle with a pilot ability that only works if you get an action and are okay being stressed which makes you easier to block.  Shifting back to Soontir, blocking Soontir in such a way that he doesn't have a focus is insanely difficult, but any block on Poe and he's no harder hitting or harder to kill than a 42pt rookie.  You could throw in Leia to help this, (at least some of it, not the getting blocked thing), but then you're investing another 17pts into an Poe, pushing him up to 85.  Anakin with 7B is 82 and has access to double repo without stress and passive mods.

 

Poe might be the most fair double repo double mod-capable I6 in the game in terms of design and pricing, but too many other elements are unfair for him to make sense at his current cost.

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