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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

So I take these things and just win? Because that's not my experience.

 

Unironically yes. Many of those cards create auto-win scenarios at specific moments in games for me. Very consistently. Its why I bring them. Precog Vader is an example, where the game ends once you reach a specific matchup of remaining pieces, this happens in hyper but it happens sooner with greater access to premovement cards. Just out right ends with basically no decision making required on my part. In fact the fewer decisions I make the more effective it gets. You dont win at Turn 0 necessarily but the game will reach a point earlier in the game where its no-win for the opponent if both players understand whats happening. 

Alot like Slave 1 Boba. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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9 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

It's up to us as individuals to partake of things in a positive way and find the margin of joy, rather than bemoan the experience we've set ourselves up for and salt the Earth.

If Wave 4/5 Extended was Forever, I would stop playing X-Wing. So, sure, if that's what you mean.

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53 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Unironically yes. Many of those cards create auto-win scenarios at specific moments in games for me. Very consistently. Its why I bring them. Precog Vader is an example, where the game ends once you reach a specific matchup of remaining pieces, this happens in hyper but it happens sooner with greater access to premovement cards. Just out right ends with basically no decision making required on my part. In fact the fewer decisions I make the more effective it gets. You dont win at Turn 0 necessarily but the game will reach a point earlier in the game where its no-win for the opponent if both players understand whats happening. 

Alot like Slave 1 Boba. 

If you can't win with them, the response is not so much git gud as it is git basic competency

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Unironically yes. Many of those cards create auto-win scenarios at specific moments in games for me. Very consistently. Its why I bring them. Precog Vader is an example, where the game ends once you reach a specific matchup of remaining pieces, this happens in hyper but it happens sooner with greater access to premovement cards. Just out right ends with basically no decision making required on my part. In fact the fewer decisions I make the more effective it gets. You dont win at Turn 0 necessarily but the game will reach a point earlier in the game where its no-win for the opponent if both players understand whats happening. 

Alot like Slave 1 Boba. 

Good expo, and I do agree. But up to that point, it is still a contest. And I certainly face those scenarios in HS as well, even not-Boba, but ofc Extended is more of a hotbed. 

Those pieces, I tend to either avoid or attempt to employ differently, for fun.... and for the challenge. If you fly those things to win, well, what can I say, you've made a certain choice.

I'm not defending Extended as something just as nuanced and skill based as HS. I just feel like the lack of gameplay and decision making involved is being very overstated. It is clearly different, full of shortcuts and nonsense, but it is still a game that can be played. 

Good for top tier competition? Seriously, same team here. But it is what it is, if it is to be the way, may as well make the effort to find our own particular enjoyment. Because winning isn't everything.

Svelok, my friend, you enjoy what you do, and don't what you don't, I have nothing but respect for the choices you make for yourself. I just wish to note what people like and what they don't are choices, not truths.

Being miserable about something is definitely a choice. Be miserable or quit is pretty much the bottom rung of the choice ladder. Be sad, or sadder... both seem less than optimal, I advise climbing :)

Anyway, I'm not in the slightest bit passionate about HS vs Ext. There's nothing anyone here is saying that I strictly disagree with or wish to refute. I just want you all to be happy and quit pushing the misery angle, so stop quoting me and I'll shut up about it :D

To repeat some earlier philosophizng, perspective is mutable, when outside circumstances are unhappily not, that mutability is where the route to happiness and productivity lie. And this is where my passion is... and why I keep posting rubbish like this....

Edited by Cuz05

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A turn-of-phrase I just thought up:

Hyperspace exists to ensure that a competitive scene isn't a repetitive scene.

  • Extended can only shift the meta by adjusting prices.  If we acknowledge that FFG believes prices are mostly balanced where they are, adjusting prices means deliberately unbalancing stuff, so people fly more or less of it.  I think that's bad.
  • Hyperspace can shift a metagame while leaving balance alone.  If Maul or Luke or whoever is fairly priced, they can be removed from Hyperspace to keep that fair price intact, while preventing a single ship from dominating a metagame.  I think there's merit to that.

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Unrelated Note:

Last weekend was the first games in Overwatch League with the Hero pool system in effect (Randomly ban 1 tank, 1 support and 2 DPS that have at least 10% play time in OWL). It was easily the most entertaining games of Overwatch in the current season. Instead of 2 teams running mirror meta comps and seeing who does it better, we got to see a lot of interesting comps and even heroes like Soldier 76 made big appearances despite seeing little no play in past seasons. In at least 3 of the 6 games, the teams involved had zero heroes in common.

 

^ this is also a classic example of where limiting choices actually create far more vibrant metas.

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On 3/9/2020 at 8:39 AM, Boom Owl said:

Its been a couple weeks since I asked this question. What is your preferred Poe+ list? 

  • At the moment I am testing Poe R4 Optics + Zizi Optics + Tali Optics + Kaz R5 Astro. 

How many points is this list? When I tried to build it out it's over 200. 

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9 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

*tries illegal list*

Man, this is really good! It's almost like I'm just playing with more points than my opponent!

Its funny because the 202 pt version of that list is actually worse even if it was 200 pts. 

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3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Its funny because the 202 pt version of that list is actually worse even if it was 200 pts. 

I've been trying but haven't had a ton of success with XAAF. I think I'm 2/5 with it so far and have gone back and forth between Kaz & Yeager and Poe & Nien. 

I might return to Poe +3A but I wanna SLAMMM.

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28 minutes ago, ccjacks3 said:

I've been trying but haven't had a ton of success with XAAF. I think I'm 2/5 with it so far and have gone back and forth between Kaz & Yeager and Poe & Nien. 

I might return to Poe +3A but I wanna SLAMMM.

Might I suggest a couple rookies?  ;)

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2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Hyperspace exists to ensure that a competitive scene isn't a repetitive scene.

I actually firmly disagree.

Fort Hyperspace wasn't built because hyperspace is more balanced or less repetitive than extended. It's because hyperspace bans all the cards that undermine player agency and FASBSMSRDOS gameplay. (Front Arc Small Base Single Mod Single Reposition Dials Only Ships)

Hyperspace right now isn't particularly well balanced, and although there is a degree of variety simply from the flattened power curve, it's not like I haven't seen 19,000 Bobas. 

But I still have so much more fun playing Hyperspace even so. This is the first meta in 2.0 that hasn't been less fun than the one before it, excepting the brief period when this hyperspace basically existed until Wave 3 shot it in the face.

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37 minutes ago, svelok said:

I actually firmly disagree.

Fort Hyperspace wasn't built because hyperspace is more balanced or less repetitive than extended. It's because hyperspace bans all the cards that undermine player agency and FASBSMSRDOS gameplay. (Front Arc Small Base Single Mod Single Reposition Dials Only Ships)

Hyperspace right now isn't particularly well balanced, and although there is a degree of variety simply from the flattened power curve, it's not like I haven't seen 19,000 Bobas. 

But I still have so much more fun playing Hyperspace even so. This is the first meta in 2.0 that hasn't been less fun than the one before it, excepting the brief period when this hyperspace basically existed until Wave 3 shot it in the face.

I guess what I mean is, when the next rotation comes, they can slide the Firespray (balanced other than Boba) out of Hyperspace, add in something else, and voila, Hyperspace meta is changed.  Hyperspace, while it might get same-y within one rotation, can be kept fresh from season-to-season, as ships move in and out.

There don't need to be nerfs to generic Bounty Hunters to keep them out of the format.  If the TIE Defender were to move into Hyperspace, it'd probably see more table time, for lack of other options, without buffs it probably doesn't need.  What someone plays in February and in August might not be the same, even if there aren't nerfs or buffs, and I think that's good.

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5 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I couldnt disagree with this more. 

Extended by design reduces emphasis on good decision making. In favor of easier decision making. 

As an example: 

Hyperspace pre-movement reposition, dial changing, and dial revealing:

  • Slave 1
  • BB8  
  • Tie Strikers 
  • Tie Reapers
  • Vi Moradi 
  • Ani N1 
  • Ved Foslo
  • Passive Sensors 

Extended pre-movement reposition, dial changing, and dial revealing: 

  • Slave 1 
  • Duchess
  • BB8 
  • Tie Strikers 
  • Tie Reapers
  • Vi Moradi 
  • Ani N1 
  • Ved Foslo
  • Guri 
  • Supernatural 
  • Precognitive Reflexes 
  • Sabine 
  • Advanced Sensors
  • Sense
  • Informant 
  • Seasoned Navigator 
  • Luke Gunner
  • Hera Pilot
  • Tie Phantoms 
  • Snoke 
  • Afterburners
  • Ensnare
  • Passive Sensors 

And thats before you start to consider how many more coordinate, double reposition, and turret options there are in Extended. If you make a bad decision in Extended cards are more likely to be able to let you mitigate it. It might look like good decision making but it absolutely is not, its just reaction. In Hyperspace, you basically only have Boba and Kylo for that. The biggest threat beside Boba to hyperspace is force charges which reward incompetence at every turn. 

Nobody tell him about coordinate, let alone Muse.

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1 hour ago, svelok said:

I actually firmly disagree.

Fort Hyperspace wasn't built because hyperspace is more balanced or less repetitive than extended. It's because hyperspace bans all the cards that undermine player agency and FASBSMSRDOS gameplay. (Front Arc Small Base Single Mod Single Reposition Dials Only Ships)

Hyperspace right now isn't particularly well balanced, and although there is a degree of variety simply from the flattened power curve, it's not like I haven't seen 19,000 Bobas. 

But I still have so much more fun playing Hyperspace even so. This is the first meta in 2.0 that hasn't been less fun than the one before it, excepting the brief period when this hyperspace basically existed until Wave 3 shot it in the face.

Are you really saying that earlier 2.0 metas were better? Things like Whisper with Vader adv. Sensor Redline? Or maybe rebel beef vs phantoms (or just rebel beef vs rebel beef if you are talking strictly about HS)?

I may be repeat myself here, but sometimes I seriously don't get what kind of xwing have you guys been playing so far... Are you telling me that the best xwing would be core sets games of academies vs red squadron rookies?

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52 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I may be repeat myself here, but sometimes I seriously don't get what kind of xwing have you guys been playing so far... Are you telling me that the best xwing would be core sets games of academies vs red squadron rookies?

God no! That's where I at least draw the line, but I think the diversity of hyperspace is pretty much perfect. 35 ships is a ton!

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