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5 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Yeah I'm with you on this, it's not that I like that aces matchups are mostly decided by the bids, I just don't think passives sensor makes it better

Gotcha - that could be very true.  I should amend my take to "apathetic" on passive sensors, I guess!

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15 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Boba Maul cares about blocks?

In a 1-on-1 scenario, it's crucial. A Kylo that moves first is in a much better place if he can establish a lock and get a block. The block is crucial for getting double mods on Mr. Fett while not getting shot. A Slave 1 Boba, likely isn't getting blocked. There several other cases, but yes, sometimes hugging it out with Boba is the safest place to be.

Banning Maul is a solution, but as @GreenDragoon said, Boba still gets passives even without him. More to the point, Maul can be used by other pilots and other ships, but I would imagine that Slave 1 is used by Fett over 99% of the time. Taking Maul out hurts the Scum faction as a whole more than it hurts Boba. Taking out Slave 1 would only affect Boba.

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1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

You use Maul every turn.

You use Slave 1 maybe once every 2 games.

Which one is more impactful?

THe issue I have with slave 1 is that at 1 point is basically a no brain include with no opportunity cost, not slave 1 on its own

Super this. Maul saves Boba from like a damage per turn for like 3-4 turns in a row pretty often. That's a lot of health saved.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me Slave 1 saves Boba from 3-4 damage per game consistently (I can see it mattering more in some matchups than others), it's not like I'm team turret-aces-changing-their-dial-is-healthy I'm just pretty sure his winrate wouldn't be too hamstrung by its absence

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2 hours ago, TheOz said:

How amazing would hyperspace be with boba getting kicked out and ship counts getting capped at 7....

 

...best format since 2nd ed format, probably better

Boba (and/or Fenn, maybe) should not have been in hyperspace full stop, and I say that as a hardcore scum (ok, Boba) player. Slave 1/Maul Boba is glue eating easy mode with the limited format counters so restricted.

It would have the added bonus of the other firespray pilots actually getting play time.

Edited by tampermagnitude

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1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

Technically... marginally (not really).

I made a mistake in a recent game with Boba and got unnecessarily blocked, so I ended up facing four shots (I think it was 13 or 14 dice) without a Reinforce, instead of five shots, but with a Reinforce.

I took 7 damage, instead of 4  or 5 damage.  So in that respect, Boba Maul (BoMa?) cares about blocks.

OTOH, then I just stuck around the same position for a round or two and wrecked face, winning the game pretty easily.  So in that respect, BoMa doesn't really care about blocks.

All a matter of perspective.

(I really have to agree with the post immediately above this one: Fett should not be in Hyperspace.  It's not just an Extended ship, it's a 1E ship.)

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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2 hours ago, TheOz said:

How amazing would hyperspace be with boba getting kicked out and ship counts getting capped at 7....

 

...best format since 2nd ed format, probably better

Boba is fine, the mountain to climb as it were. 8 ships is slightly Concerning because at worst it’s gatekeeping the Boba counters and at best it’s beating Boba outright. But the sky isn’t falling yet. 

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4 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Until 7 ships beat ya consistently and becomes the enemy 

No It’s not that sort of a reaction, I personally have not flown against a 8 ship list in hyperspace yet(meaning many people in my area don’t play separatists lol) I think it just makes list building more interesting while keeping costs of ships where they should be. plus the usual problems like huge variance swings and game time issues( more the latter)

2 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Boba is fine, the mountain to climb as it were. 8 ships is slightly Concerning because at worst it’s gatekeeping the Boba counters and at best it’s beating Boba outright. But the sky isn’t falling yet. 

I think boba is just meta warping, I feel it really odd that other pilots like that got cut from hyperspace and he is still in, scum building is so much more interesting without him, like no wedge or QuickDraw or Sear....scum had so many awesome pilots in hyperspace but it’s hard to justify not just taking boba

not to mention I think boba listS pose problems for more interesting list archetypes in hyperspace, the sort of well if it can’t beat boba it becomes discouraging to take to a tournament...just my opinion though I do love hyperspace but those things gone make it even more interesting

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25 minutes ago, TheOz said:

No It’s not that sort of a reaction, I personally have not flown against a 8 ship list in hyperspace yet(meaning many people in my area don’t play separatists lol) I think it just makes list building more interesting while keeping costs of ships where they should be. plus the usual problems like huge variance swings and game time issues( more the latter)

I have however played against eight droid swarms, most of which are well decided before time. I personally have enjoyed lists ranging anywhere between 3-8 ships, so I guess I should advocate against two ship lists since I find list building much more interesting beyond that point. 

To be fair, we'll agree to both. Lists should be between 3-7 ships.

Actually, I expect a few people might actually like that despite me being mostly a jerk right now. Anyway, our opinions aren’t worth going to war against each other.

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1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

I have however played against eight droid swarms, most of which are well decided before time. I personally have enjoyed lists ranging anywhere between 3-8 ships, so I guess I should advocate against two ship lists since I find list building much more interesting beyond that point. 

To be fair, we'll agree to both. Lists should be between 3-7 ships.

Actually, I expect a few people might actually like that despite me being mostly a jerk right now. Anyway, our opinions aren’t worth going to war against each other.

I will say I’m more anti boba in hyperspace then 8 ship and well practiced swarms can be played in time, it is annoying when they aren’t well practiced lol. But yeah I totally agree 3-7 and wouldn’t mind them lifting the ship minimum to 3..and this comes from someone who was a big rac whisper player in the 1.0 days as well as someone who has flown boba fenn before pre hyperspace. I just think there are great swarms that can be more interesting if it isn’t 8 f/os...but I like the f/o at 25 points...and cis gets pretty creative without sear or the ability to fly 8 ships...and potentially still really powerful

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I would like a cap of a 10pt bid (hyperspace only), and everything else can stay the same. So you can build i5 lists, or i6 to counter fenn, and Boba with Slave I is only relevant 50% of the matchups, rather than trying to outbid a 16-19pt list. A cap of 10pt bid would reduce the amount of Boba lists in the meta if you are only moving second in 50% of your matchups against i5 and i6 ships, while other lists with i5 and i6 that usually have a 3-7pt bid have to drop an upgrade to get that 10pt bid for Boba/Fenn matchups.

8 ship limit is fine. What I would like to see is only limiting ships to 4 of the same non-limited pilots. So no FOcho, you can run 4 cadets maximum, then have to go up to the other higher initiative ships. 4 cartels only. 4 hyenas bombers. 4 init 1 fireballs only. Stop the spam and actually build a list. This limit could also let FFG reduce point thresholds without worrying about 5 Zealous Recruits or 6 khiraxz or Z95s bandits being only 20pts when only 80pts of a list could be bandits.

Edited by wurms

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4 minutes ago, wurms said:

I would like a cap of a 10pt bid (hyperspace only), and everything else can stay the same. So you can build i5 lists, or i6 to counter fenn, and Boba with Slave I is only relevant 50% of the matchups, rather than trying to outbid a 16-19pt list. A cap of 10pt bid would reduce the amount of Boba lists in the meta if you are only moving second in 50% of your matchups against i5 and i6 ships, while other lists with i5 and i6 that usually have a 3-7pt bid have to drop an upgrade to get that 10pt bid for Boba/Fenn matchups.

8 ship limit is fine. What I would like to see is only limiting ships to 4 of the same non-limited pilots. So no FOcho, you can run 4 cadets maximum, then have to go up to the other higher initiative ships. 4 cartels only. 4 hyenas bombers. 4 init 1 fireballs only. Stop the spam and actually build a list.

Wow great idea 👍 
 

unfortunately I think boba frost might almost be a bigger boogie man then boba fenn due to it being easier to play over a long tournament, but 10 point bid limit is non the less a fantastic idea

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why would we ever want to cap the number of ships you can take, if someone wants to fly 6 N-1s why not let them? 

****, I think one ship lists should be allowed, they should just be extremely extremely bad. 

I will admit I don't really want to see 10 vultures, but that's mostly due to time and scale. Would be kind of fun to experiment against though. 

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2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

why would we ever want to cap the number of ships you can take, if someone wants to fly 6 N-1s why not let them? 

****, I think one ship lists should be allowed, they should just be extremely extremely bad. 

I will admit I don't really want to see 10 vultures, but that's mostly due to time and scale. Would be kind of fun to experiment against though. 

For the same reason limited formats are interesting? We can all like having limited pilot and chassis choices in hyperspace, why would limiting numbers of generics or not allowing 2 ship lists or limiting bid amounts not be interesting in the same way?

dont get me wrong I’m talking about hyperspace or limited formats like that, I believe extended can totally be the do whatever you want man format.

but for example if you force lists to have 3 ships you totally limit super boba, he is still good and he can still be in good lists, but it auto forces you to leave some of the toys at home and make hard choices

same thing with not being able to take 8 tie f/os, they can still be dirt cheap but now you have to at least have different initiative levels or different chassis, once again forcing interesting choices. Kind of why the dotted system on vultures is so genius.

it does allow you to cost things at what their real value is without someone breaking something, sort of like why you can’t have 40 point bwing generic because 5 would be too much hp on the table, if your limited to 4 of the bottom generic anyway then you have to take something else with them

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8 hours ago, wurms said:

I would like a cap of a 10pt bid (hyperspace only), and everything else can stay the same. So you can build i5 lists, or i6 to counter fenn, and Boba with Slave I is only relevant 50% of the matchups, rather than trying to outbid a 16-19pt list. A cap of 10pt bid would reduce the amount of Boba lists in the meta if you are only moving second in 50% of your matchups against i5 and i6 ships, while other lists with i5 and i6 that usually have a 3-7pt bid have to drop an upgrade to get that 10pt bid for Boba/Fenn matchups.

8 ship limit is fine. What I would like to see is only limiting ships to 4 of the same non-limited pilots. So no FOcho, you can run 4 cadets maximum, then have to go up to the other higher initiative ships. 4 cartels only. 4 hyenas bombers. 4 init 1 fireballs only. Stop the spam and actually build a list. This limit could also let FFG reduce point thresholds without worrying about 5 Zealous Recruits or 6 khiraxz or Z95s bandits being only 20pts when only 80pts of a list could be bandits.

If you're happy to cap bids at 10 points, why not just have the player order be randomly determined at the start of the game with a 0 point bid cap...?

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6 minutes ago, svelok said:

Out of all these random ideas the only one I like is three ships minimum. What have 2-ship lists ever done for us? Steal agency, eat hot chips, and lie?

What of value would be lost? WedgeLuke, BobaFenn, GuriFenn, AniObi, VaderRAC, WhisperRAC, double Infiltrator, KyloTavson, PoeRey... hey! No!

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5 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Memes aside, i've always wondered how hard a force organization chart would be to implement in  x wing, as it could solve the issue of "when bringing one is good, often bringing the maximum is better" be it aces or generics

When you say force organization chart, do you mean for a faction or a list?

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48 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

When you say force organization chart, do you mean for a faction or a list?

both i guess? In some minis games, units are classified as things like "hq" "elite" "troop"  "fast attack" "heavy support" and stuff like that, you have a minimum and maximum on all categories. when i played 40k it was 1-2 hq, 2-6 troop, and 0-3 everything else (if memory serves.) So even though valkrie/vendettas were incredibly fair and balanced, I could only bring 3 of them, same for other fair and balanced things like hydras. I'm not sure how youd bring it to x wing though, since squad building is much more limited, and saying "you need to bring 2 tie fighters" adds up to a quarter of a list, and if a faction doesn't have a cheap ship of the line it gets more brutal (imagine if resistance had to bring 2 generic t70s as a starting point.) It might even be a "third edition" problem the more i think about it. 

Edited by catachanninja

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