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1 minute ago, gennataos said:

Weaker than whom?

 

Better players? It's nicer than saying"bad" is basically the only reason I've defaulted to the term. I usually regard "weaker" players as ones that are below average tournament players in skill and experience. (a 1-5 or 2-4 player, maybe 3-3 on a good day with favorable pairings)

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1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I don't disagree those things will still be good, but I think that's ignoring FO improvements, 5A also got better (rip fangs) and the salads that will come out of Rebels, Empire and Resistance.  

Yes 5a is probably also good.

FO, barring the unknown new pilots, is imo still behind both scum and seps. 

Boba fenn is probably better than any salad. 

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

That allows e.g. Vader to take a shot, and then roll out of an arc when an opponent engages, or do I misunderstand you now?

It's meant to be "after an enemy ship engages".  So Vader could take it, but he can't roll out of arc until the engagement is done, and he won't easily have a lock for ATC if he does.

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Just now, Ablazoned said:

It's meant to be "after an enemy ship engages".  So Vader could take it, but he can't roll out of arc until the engagement is done, and he won't easily have a lock for ATC if he does.

My point is, giving Vader an action with the trigger of an enemy ship engaging can be abused and doesn't look like a good idea.

Here's the scenario I imagine: Vader maneuverd into a position where he is in range 3 of several, but in arc of just one at range 1. He's Vader after all and has an easier time to make this happen than many others. He takes the passives action, spends a force for focus, spends a force for a lock. Takes his shot. Another enemy ship engages, but has no shot on Vader - he made sure of that. Vader gets his extra action, pays the focus, rolls out of arc by spending a force. Doesn't get shot but was able to take a range 1 shot himself. That leaves him at 1 force for the next turn, so it clearly comes at a price if he has to do all of the above in one turn. But even if he just rolls out of one arc instead of all, that might be worth it.

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19 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

My point is, giving Vader an action with the trigger of an enemy ship engaging can be abused and doesn't look like a good idea.

Here's the scenario I imagine: Vader maneuverd into a position where he is in range 3 of several, but in arc of just one at range 1. He's Vader after all and has an easier time to make this happen than many others. He takes the passives action, spends a force for focus, spends a force for a lock. Takes his shot. Another enemy ship engages, but has no shot on Vader - he made sure of that. Vader gets his extra action, pays the focus, rolls out of arc by spending a force. Doesn't get shot but was able to take a range 1 shot himself. That leaves him at 1 force for the next turn, so it clearly comes at a price if he has to do all of the above in one turn. But even if he just rolls out of one arc instead of all, that might be worth it.

Assuming he's moving last...Vader can already do all of that with one less action anyway?  And maybe it gives him a touch more flexibility but if he has to save his BR action to do it that just leaves boost.  And it also sorta feels like a rube Goldberg machine to see that benefit at all, especially considering the initiatives that would need to be involved.

Edited by Ablazoned

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4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

So long as they keep making the events extended, kinda everyone?

Yes to a degree, but I’m wondering if Extended is being left on autopilot for now while they focus on hyperspace. Especially because it feels like the points adjustment didn’t really do anything substantial but get rid of big bids.

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Just now, Ablazoned said:

Assuming he's moving last...Vader can already do all of that with one less action anyway?

I don't see how? He can't reposition after his shot with current passives. Your suggestions sounds like a reprise of Turr but for Vader.

Haha or I'm in deep brainfart territory now ^^

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Just now, FlyingAnchors said:

Yes to a degree, but I’m wondering if Extended is being left on autopilot for now while they focus on hyperspace. Especially because it feels like the points adjustment didn’t really do anything substantial but get rid of big bids.

Worlds 2020 will be extended.

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Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I don't see how? He can't reposition after his shot with current passives. Your suggestions sounds like a reprise of Turr but for Vader.

Haha or I'm in deep brainfart territory now ^^

I edits but you're really fast!

Basically, yes there's a marginal benefit, but it only comes up when Vader can use only boost to dodge all arcs and then the enemy has a ship at higher initiative without vader in arc than the single ship that does have Vader in arc and even then he spends all his force and his focus to do it.

My problems with current passives is that they're the opposite of thematic and are better used on high-init.  This version doesn't let Vader bone Fenn rau and Poe and other i6s, and maybe leaves one rube Goldberg situation where he gets a benefit over standard actions.

Also, it should have a lock action requirement on the card.

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7 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Yes to a degree, but I’m wondering if Extended is being left on autopilot for now while they focus on hyperspace. Especially because it feels like the points adjustment didn’t really do anything substantial but get rid of big bids.

But my point is that even if FFG wants *the players* to focus on Hyperspace and not Extended, if the big events are Extended, that's going to be a tough sell.

I think Hyperspace has a lot of potential to be a more interesting and dynamic format, where it isn't just the same stuff all the time.  I think I'd rather play mostly in Hyperspace.

But that's just me.  I might be able to exert some influence over my small local scene, but it'll be the big tournaments have to lead the way.  Small sample size of 1 with LVO in the very short window of time, so any doom and gloom over repetitive Extended might be overblown and is certainly early, but still.

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11 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Also, it should have a lock action requirement on the card.

To be sure.

11 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

My problems with current passives is that they're the opposite of thematic and are better used on high-init.  This version doesn't let Vader bone Fenn rau and Poe and other i6s, and maybe leaves one rube Goldberg situation where he gets a benefit over standard actions.

I don't like saying that it's a High-Init problem, since I think it's pretty much only Vader who is problem.

I suppose Passive Sensors could get the Composure treatment.  Errata in "can't perform additional actions after you get the Lock or Calculate action" in the engagement phase.  That does **** over the TIE/sf ever so slightly, since they couldn't Lock/Rotate, but it'd be a small price to pay.  It'd not only shut down Vader, and preempt any issues if, say, the TIE Silencer ever got a Sensors slot again, or something like that.

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41 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Worlds 2020 will be extended.

 

20 minutes ago, Revanur said:

But also after the next point update and a bunch of new releases so it much can still change before worlds.

Is there anything announced yet prior to the next points update which is extended format?  I guess the system open worlds qualifier events?  I’m not aware of anything else, so I’m really ambivalent. 
 

#tinytrial

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42 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

say, the TIE Silencer ever got a Sensors slot again, or something like that.

HP + passive as written would be an interesting Kylo (the fun, but not good PS11 FCS Threat Tracker of 1st e), but collision detector would pose far too many issues with the ship. Collision detector Blackout, collision *especially with Supernat/Precog/coordinate* Kylo, or collision Rush would not mind shelling 6 pts for the advantage it gives. A collision trick shot FOTP looks like a pricey trick, until you realize that you can fit 3 in a list, or better, 2 and neat friend. #don'tturn6hpinterceptorsintoDashfortheloveoftheforceandallthatisgood

Also, the Upsilon and the SF have both tech and sensor. It'd get boring if most FO ships had the slots.

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33 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

HP + passive as written would be an interesting Kylo (the fun, but not good PS11 FCS Threat Tracker of 1st e), but collision detector would pose far too many issues with the ship. Collision detector Blackout, collision *especially with Supernat/Precog/coordinate* Kylo, or collision Rush would not mind shelling 6 pts for the advantage it gives. A collision trick shot FOTP looks like a pricey trick, until you realize that you can fit 3 in a list, or better, 2 and neat friend. #don'tturn6hpinterceptorsintoDashfortheloveoftheforceandallthatisgood

Also, the Upsilon and the SF have both tech and sensor. It'd get boring if most FO ships had the slots.

Personally, I don't think the Silencer should get the Sensor slot.  More, it was just an example of a ship where there could be problems if Passive Sensors showed up.

//

1 hour ago, Ablazoned said:

D'oh now I see what you're saying!  Vader can't link after acquiring a lock!  It's not a lock action.

That would be a not-too-shabby errata, too.  If Passive Sensors was "acquire a lock" or "assign a Calculate Token to your ship" instead of the actions, but with essentially the same text/triggers as now, that'd work fine.

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