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I complained about regen here ages ago but it was not deemed a real concern.....

Inb4.

Jedi should not win joust and turn. And then it seems ok, because without regen, if you catch these things, full on, or part on a few times, they die like anything else. Unless they luck greens, which happens to all 2/3ag ships.

Catching one full on 2 or even 3 times and still only ending up with half, tilts the scoreboard every single time.

I don't think it can be priced out, it's thematic and a valid tactic. I'd prefer a change to point scoring. If your turn and joust thing is worth 3 times mine and we both trade the exact same damage, I'm a bit disappointed at earning nothing.

Force is an ease of use thing, but it doesn't feel like a rampant advantage to me. I like the balance, I like the theme, I even like it as a sort of named pilot plot armour. But it's not priced according to any kind of system that has ever existed. 

Difficult to do that. With all the things it grants access to in different places, it has a very fluid value. But it could be a **** of a lot more even than it is.

FTC has some bull. Errata fully execute. 

Jedi other than Plo or Obi don't see much use because I5 and too cheap throws all the other toys out of the pram. Put them up. The others all feel fine to play against in fairly balanced squads.

Anakin is awesome and also a kind of trap. I like it. I'm not touching it.

I need to get some chopper action. I like the sound of this.

Done. **** takes complete.

Edited by Cuz05

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2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Months back I made my own **** take complaining about CLT Jedi and got scoffed at. (7B were the fear of the time.) My complaint was based on three and even four ship Jedi lists with CLT arc dodging, flanking and striking from out of arc for horrific effect.

 

Are 3 or 4 CLT Jedi lists doing very well?

I've played against numerous, with various things and not felt particularly awed. Looked but not been tempted to go there myself much. There are new flavours now, that I haven't used or come across that could obviously change things dramatically.

I am well aware of how horrific they can be individually though. 2 suits me best, I guess.

5 was clearly quite good when I played it, but delicate. I didn't think it seemed as hard to play against as some 5x Interceptor lists.

3, 4, 5 CLT lists seem balanced to me, and difficult to do consistently well with. Even with the obvious I5 too cheapness.

But I'm gonna be missing something. It's inevitable.

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9 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:Are 3 or 4 CLT Jedi lists doing very well?

I've played against numerous, with various things and not felt particularly awed. Looked but not been tempted to go there myself much. There are new flavours now, that I haven't used or come across that could obviously change things dramatically.

I am well aware of how horrific they can be individually though. 2 suits me best, I guess.

5 was clearly quite good when I played it, but delicate. I didn't think it seemed as hard to play against as some 5x Interceptor lists.

3, 4, 5 CLT lists seem balanced to me, and difficult to do consistently well with. Even with the obvious I5 too cheapness.

But I'm gonna be missing something. It's inevitable.

The various things here is just more CLT. Five ships is likely thin, since you need the high initiative pilots to arc dodge and be aces and all that. This is all just stupidly cheap arc dodging aces that just avoid getting shot at, occasional force push into position to CLT and wreck something.

This has not brought balance to the force. Three is stronger, four is on that edge, five is right out.

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7 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

The various things here is just more CLT.

Yeah, by various things, I mean that one other thing that fits with 3, whether it's a 4 and 5th Jedi or Ric or etc or etc.

And I do agree.

But currently only think Ifive is right out.

And yeah, 5xJedi is thin, but bullseye coverage is really good for a few turns. That has to count or it's downhill faster than the other varieties of 5x.

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4 hours ago, gennataos said:

More takes, of whatever adjective you'd like to attach:

  • Luminara is the best Chopper carrier
  • Anakin is underutilized
  • Spare Parts is grossly underutilized
  • Ahsoka is more grossly underutilized
  • Many (most?) Jedi players don't know how to utilize gas clouds properly
    • They're a featured upgrade of the Jedi, not an obstacle that you occasionally hide behind

Well, the clouds have 2 purposes: better defense for the disengage and allowing Jedi to pop out for attack or fleeing a la TIE Phantoms in lore. But all of that is correct.

It makes me sad that Jedi make chopper so easy to use consequence-free. Crackshot Oddball [ARC] Chopper is more expensive than his wizard counterparts, even though he feels more fair and quite good fun.

2 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

The answer is simple.

Vote me for Points Dictator and I will bring an end to the Force Ace menace. (Soontir counts as a force ace)

I will bring safety and security to our new Points Empire!

IDK, man. Going too far can encourage some dumb and proven good things to double down. Pre-cog Luke. All the toys Ani. Super Kylo. They'll make room for this by using the discounts to their efficiency friends to boost their own effectiveness: same relative squad, but points where they matter more, albeit less bid. Heck, even before upgrades 7B Ani and Kylo are amazing pt fortresses.

I guess trip aces have no bid or fewer toys now, but a very good plethora of lists are helped by general moves to hurt the aces. They want to be pricey, especially when placed in good hands.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

At the very least, I think we all can agree the 2 & 3 force charge small bases are significantly more valuable than most single charge users. 

V1s being the mild exception, because they have white evades to stack. 

I think the other big thing about v1 is that very often they have Jendon.  They're solid on their own, but Turn 1 Locks make them next level.

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I wouldn't mind seeing quite a few I3 single charge generic Jedi Knights flying around with CLT and Regen. 

But make them too cheap, and then you're flying 3 or 4 generics with Obi or Ani ... Or gosh, even just Mace, and we're still in trouble. 

Lose, lose. 

😕

Edit:

I actually would love to see Mace +3 or 4 as a viable archetype. Mid-range lists interest me. 

Edited by Bucknife

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2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Ezra Tie fighter is pretty useful to.

As a sense carrier. Caption Rex is still the best typo and Rebel TIE. He and Lowhrick are still a good team.

But why bother with the Caption's Suppressive Fire when Vonreg is coming, along with missiles likely to be carried by many heightened perception Inky's and Kylo, Poe, Vader, Quickdraw, possibly even Han in all his factions, and to some degree any I5 with the slot? Lol

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6 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Well, the clouds have 2 purposes: better defense for the disengage and allowing Jedi to pop out for attack or fleeing a la TIE Phantoms in lore. But all of that is correct.

It makes me sad that Jedi make chopper so easy to use consequence-free. Crackshot Oddball [ARC] Chopper is more expensive than his wizard counterparts, even though he feels more fair and quite good fun.

IDK, man. Going too far can encourage some dumb and proven good things to double down. Pre-cog Luke. All the toys Ani. Super Kylo. They'll make room for this by using the discounts to their efficiency friends to boost their own effectiveness: same relative squad, but points where they matter more, albeit less bid. Heck, even before upgrades 7B Ani and Kylo are amazing pt fortresses.

I guess trip aces have no bid or fewer toys now, but a very good plethora of lists are helped by general moves to hurt the aces. They want to be pricey, especially when placed in good hands.

Imagine thinking that when krunch was promising to Epstein force aces he was including soontir but not Ani, kylo, and luke

Edited by jagsba

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Alright no more tournaments until point revolution.
Pick Best "List" From Each Faction That Wont Really Change Much: 

  • Rebels: Luke + Lando + `1 
  • Scum: Boba+ Something(s)
  • Resistance: Poe + Rey/Han + 1 i5 
  • Empire: Soontir + GI + Something(s)
  • Republic: 7b Ani + Obi + Plo 
  • First Order: SF + SF + SF + SF + SF + SF 
  • Separatist: (1-4) Ensnare + Squad 
Edited by Boom Owl

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45 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Alright no more tournaments until point revolution.
Pick Best "List" From Each Faction That Wont Really Change Much: 

  • Rebels: Luke + Lando + `1 
  • Scum: Boba+ Something(s)
  • Resistance: Poe + Rey/Han + 1 i5 
  • Empire: Soontir + GI + Something(s)
  • Republic: 7b Ani + Obi + Plo 
  • First Order: SF + SF + SF + SF + SF + SF 
  • Separatist: (1-4) Ensnare + Squad 

I'm looking hard at Boba plus.  I find him and Guri and Fenn unlikely to go up, and Dengar possibly ripe for a points drop.

Ensnare is going up, as are obi and plo.  GI maybe a touch but nothing disqualifying.  I'm still not convinced that SF Gunner is the interior choice without Optics, but 6 SF will survive points change.

Poe is sort of fundamentally in a tough spot.  He's priced for his ability but if he uses it becomes super predictable without BB.

Luke/Lando/+1 has always been decent.  I don't see that changing.

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55 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Alright no more tournaments until point revolution.
Pick Best "List" From Each Faction That Wont Really Change Much: 

  • Rebels: Luke + Lando + `1 
  • Scum: Boba+ Something(s)
  • Resistance: Poe + Rey/Han + 1 i5 
  • Empire: Soontir + GI + Something(s)
  • Republic: 7b Ani + Obi + Plo 
  • First Order: SF + SF + SF + SF + SF + SF 
  • Separatist: (1-4) Ensnare + Squad 

I don't even know.  I'll take a different approach, of what I'd like to see

  • Rebels: Alphabet squadron type stuff should be good.  Beef is that, but I don't like how beef has been done thus far.  I'd like to see it more of a mixed bag, instead of a block of death.  Zippy A-Wings, workhorse X-Wings and B-Wings and bombing/turreting Y-Wing.  The U-Wing is dumb as a star fighter. 
  • Scum: Any time Scum is good, I kind of hate it.  It's almost always based on some "gotcha" trick, which is thematic, but seldom feels good as an opponent.  Bounty Hunters should always be at the forefront.
  • Resistance: The pod is way more dumb as a star fighter than the U-Wing, same for the transport.  It should probably continue to be a faction of standout named X-Wing and A-Wing pilots with an occasional showing of a Falcon.
  • Empire: I'd like the see Empire get gently nuked from orbit.  They've been good in some for or another, in multiple archetypes, since the launch of 2.0.  They can go ahead and take a break for a while.  If not, ace plus fodder squad would be a nice default instead of triple aces.
  • Republic: A Jedi plus clone squad should always be good and I'd hope always be the best squad available, just like Empire.   How is Captain Rex not crew or gunner?
  • First Order: Pfft, don't know, don't care.  The faction doesn't really have a thematic identity to me outside of Kylo.  It's the most faceless faction to me, milquetoast and boring.  It's like a worse Empire.
  • Separatist: Swarms should continue to be good, but not as good as they've been.  From a thematic/fandom standpoint, I don't understand why people want to play this faction.  I can kind of understand Grievous a little, he's kind of badass sometimes.  But Dooku is a straight wuss.  He bails at the first sign of trouble.  

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Jan Point Cost Check #1 ( Currently 181 pts total ) 

Anakin Skywalker — Delta-7 Aethersprite 62
Delta-7B 20
Ship Total: 82
Half Points: 41 Threshold: 3
   
Obi-Wan Kenobi — Delta-7 Aethersprite 47
Calibrated Laser Targeting 4
Ship Total: 51
Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2
   
Plo Koon — Delta-7 Aethersprite 44
Calibrated Laser Targeting 4
Ship Total: 48
Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2

Jan Point Cost Check #2 ( Currently 178 pts total ) 

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced x1 67
Afterburners 6
Ship Total: 73
Half Points: 37 Threshold: 3
   
Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 53
Ship Total: 53
Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2
   
Grand Inquisitor — TIE Advanced v1 52
Ship Total: 52
Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

Jan Point Cost Check #3 ( Currently 183 pts total ) 

Sun Fac — Nantex-Class Starfighter 54
Ensnare 24
Ship Total: 78
Half Points: 39 Threshold: 2
   
Berwer Kret — Nantex-Class Starfighter 40
Ensnare 16
Ship Total: 56
Half Points: 28 Threshold: 2
   
Chertek — Nantex-Class Starfighter 39
Ensnare 10
Ship Total: 49
Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

 

Edited by Boom Owl

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50 minutes ago, gennataos said:

First Order: Pfft, don't know, don't care.  The faction doesn't really have a thematic identity to me outside of Kylo.  It's the most faceless faction to me, milquetoast and boring.  It's like a worse Empire.

The bolded bit is why FO is interesting to me. Slightly more durable formationless faction with minimal synergy and more limited access to trip aces is kind of a cool theme. 
Has more in common with portions of the Rebel cardpool than Empire I think. 

Luke = Kylo
Wedge = Quickdraw
VCX = Upsilon
B-Wing = SF
FO = RZ1A

Some parallels to Resistance as well with alot fewer synergy cards: 

Poe = Kylo
RZ2A = SF 
Rey = Tavson 
FO = Pods/Fireball 

Vonreg will probably change all that and just make it Empire/Republic 2.5.  

Edited by Boom Owl

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40 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't even know.  I'll take a different approach, of what I'd like to see

  • Rebels: Alphabet squadron type stuff should be good.  Beef is that, but I don't like how beef has been done thus far.  I'd like to see it more of a mixed bag, instead of a block of death.  Zippy A-Wings, workhorse X-Wings and B-Wings and bombing/turreting Y-Wing.  The U-Wing is dumb as a star fighter. 
  • Scum: Any time Scum is good, I kind of hate it.  It's almost always based on some "gotcha" trick, which is thematic, but seldom feels good as an opponent.  Bounty Hunters should always be at the forefront.
  • Resistance: The pod is way more dumb as a star fighter than the U-Wing, same for the transport.  It should probably continue to be a faction of standout named X-Wing and A-Wing pilots with an occasional showing of a Falcon.
  • Empire: I'd like the see Empire get gently nuked from orbit.  They've been good in some for or another, in multiple archetypes, since the launch of 2.0.  They can go ahead and take a break for a while.  If not, ace plus fodder squad would be a nice default instead of triple aces.
  • Republic: A Jedi plus clone squad should always be good and I'd hope always be the best squad available, just like Empire.   How is Captain Rex not crew or gunner?
  • First Order: Pfft, don't know, don't care.  The faction doesn't really have a thematic identity to me outside of Kylo.  It's the most faceless faction to me, milquetoast and boring.  It's like a worse Empire.
  • Separatist: Swarms should continue to be good, but not as good as they've been.  From a thematic/fandom standpoint, I don't understand why people want to play this faction.  I can kind of understand Grievous a little, he's kind of badass sometimes.  But Dooku is a straight wuss.  He bails at the first sign of trouble.  

FO are Empire that sacrificed a massive load of roster-depth for higher tech. Their faction theme is supposed to be "shooting only makes them angrier/better", which does get conveyed by Fanatical, Tavson, Quickdraw, and I'll Show You the Dark Side, but you're right in your diagnosis: it's all about Kylo. The TIE/ba could fix that, given that it'll deepen the roster and offer some ace options outside of Kylo, muggle Kylo, and muggle I3/I4 Kylo, plus function as the faction's second ship with a native boost. But the faction theme will be further lost due to the fact that this thing does not want to get looked at, let alone take damage. The faction theme mess will be increased, lol.

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14 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Jan Point Cost Check #1 ( Currently 181 pts total ) 

7B Ani/CLT Obi/CLT Plo

201, please. I'll begrudgingly accept 197+. 

At least 191... please? 

I'm prepared for 183-185, unfortunately

15 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Jan Point Cost Check #2 ( Currently 178 pts total ) 

Burners Vader/TGI/Soontir

188+? Crack+TComp+FCS hitting 200 or 201 would mean 194/195, assuming none of those go up. Doesn't feel like it deserves luxury upgrades so that feels ok I guess.

22 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Jan Point Cost Check #3 ( Currently 183 pts total ) 

Sun Fac/Berwer/Chertek 3x Ensnare

I try to forget. 600?

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