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39 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Thanks. I hate it.

Also I don't get it.  Its offense is pretty anemic if you don't opt in.  I remember in the cheapjumper days I played against a guy who ran 5 with prox mines, and even with the tractor stuff it wasn't that hard to avoid them.  What am I missing?

Edited by Ablazoned

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5 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Also I don't get it.  Its offense is pretty anemic if you don't opt in.  I remember in the cheapjumper days I played against a guy who ran 5 with prox mines, and even with the tractor stuff it wasn't that hard to avoid them.  What am I missing?

Maybe jump out, turn around, create a wall of bombs, come back to deployment area, turn around on rocks, wait?  It's 12 final salvo dice.  My time with torrents tells me 5 health behind 2 green dice lives longer than one would expect.  /shrug

Edited by gennataos

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4 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Also I don't get it.  Its offense is pretty anemic if you don't opt in.  I remember in the cheapjumper days I played against a guy who ran 5 with prox mines, and even with the tractor stuff it wasn't that hard to avoid them.  What am I missing?

Just joust it, through the minefield. Surprise attack 

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After fiddling around with some republic lists with no success nor particular fun achieved, I went back to resistance and won a world invite. 

I've found an extremely good core: cova with leia, just Heroic Finn and Bastian. The issue is I'm left with around 62 points that I find hard to spend on anything else actually good...

A fully loaded nien is allright at best (although it's pretty good against RAC who is very present in the current Italian meta) and is way over costed... 

I'm not sure there are better options thought, all other t70s pilots cost much more than what they are worth... Lulo might be an option that free more points for juicing the other ships, but it's not like they really need more and the other awings don't bring enough offense. 

A skinny Vennie can be considered but I would miss a ps 5 ship and I'm not sure a large base would be more painful for my opponent than to myself

 

TL;DR resistance beef is actually decent if it's not weighted by subpar pilots like pava or snap

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4 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I've found an extremely good core: cova with leia, just Heroic Finn and Bastian. The issue is I'm left with around 62 points that I find hard to spend on anything else actually good...

Rose Tico (26)

Greer Sonnel (36)
Total: 62

These guys are super underrated and happen to add to 62

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5 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Heroic Finn

Was just going to say: I don't understand why people still prefer Finn over Rose. Crackshot Rose is amazing value for the points.

But then again I also don't understand why Cova+Leia is a thing when I only see an X-wing that can stop/reverse. Just not my style I guess, but I really don't get it.

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10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Was just going to say: I don't understand why people still prefer Finn over Rose. Crackshot Rose is amazing value for the points.

But then again I also don't understand why Cova+Leia is a thing when I only see an X-wing that can stop/reverse. Just not my style I guess, but I really don't get it.

Well, considering Finn is showing some decent results, the why is rather obvious. He’s a proven value for price. He is also self-sufficient, thus can be used in a variety of lists, while Rose needs buddies in close proximity to work. 

It’s a bit like the old debate between Vessery and PTL Ryad. With the right set up, Vessery was a better option. But PTL Ryad could be dropped in with pretty much anybody and do her thing. 

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14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Was just going to say: I don't understand why people still prefer Finn over Rose. Crackshot Rose is amazing value for the points.

But then again I also don't understand why Cova+Leia is a thing when I only see an X-wing that can stop/reverse. Just not my style I guess, but I really don't get it.

Shhhhhhhh, they're funny when they sink 19 pts to turn a shuttle into an X Wing.

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7 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Well, considering Finn is showing some decent results, the why is rather obvious. He’s a proven value for price. He is also self-sufficient, thus can be used in a variety of lists, while Rose needs buddies in close proximity to work. 

Can you sell me on Heroic Finn? Not the 42-43pt version but just with heroic.

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17 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Can I hop in? He's tankier than 3 agility ships and does more damage than 3 die ships.  He doesn't do both on the same turn anymore, but also is 30 points.

He's only tankier for a single shot per turn and then pretty much explodes. You can cargue that's good for a 30pt ship to draw as much fire. But he draws about as much fire as a mid-i TIE fighter before he explodes.

And he has no access to double mods, which are (sadly again) so prevalent for other 3 attack ships. Why is that wrong? It has to be because I'm clearly missing something.

 

edit: and to compare with Rose: she is stress-immune with her passive reroll. Unlike Finn, who by now really wants his advanced optics again for the expensive version. Or, limiting to 30pt HeroicFinn, he has atrocious time on target.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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46 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

TL;DR resistance beef is actually decent if it's not weighted by subpar pilots like pava or snap

Is this you?  Resistance beef is decent in most forms.  Not tying oneself to Jess is probably helpful, but saying that Snap is bad is....something I cannot agree with.  

Wait, where are the droids?  Do you guys not have droids?  I could make Rey/Poe god tier in the meta I see from that #tinytrial.

Edited by gennataos

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47 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

TL;DR resistance beef is actually decent if it's not weighted by subpar pilots like pava or snap

I'm not with @gennataos on the Snap side, but Pava doesn't feel subpar at all. Granted I've only ran Pava next to a Fat Finn (PA/Copilot), but that seems like the correct pilot to be her wingmate anyway. Bastian just becomes the clear #1 target to clear off the board since he doesn't have any extra defensive upgrades or abilities in most cases, he will just die like any other T70. I personally think the best "Resistance Beef" starts with Cova, Jess and Fat Finn where the 4th ship could still be Bastian as a true BEEF if you want OR Greer with room for extra upgrades and bid if necessary (surprise it matters against Sear/Chertek swarms) to give you more of a tool box beef. 

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22 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

He's only tankier for a single shot per turn and then pretty much explodes. You can cargue that's good for a 30pt ship to draw as much fire. But he draws about as much fire as a mid-i TIE fighter before he explodes.

And he has no access to double mods, which are (sadly again) so prevalent for other 3 attack ships. Why is that wrong? It has to be because I'm clearly missing something.

 

edit: and to compare with Rose: she is stress-immune with her passive reroll. Unlike Finn, who by now really wants his advanced optics again for the expensive version. Or, limiting to 30pt HeroicFinn, he has atrocious time on target.

Sure, but that's most/all 3 agility ships.  And it's not really fair to say he's "only tankier for a single shot per turn".  If you end up not needing his ability the first shot, you end up being extra tanky the second shot too.

 

For reference, over 5 3 die focus attacks:

3 agility ship w/ focus: 4.9 damage

Heroic Finn (ignoring ability to add blanks and heroic): 5.7 damage

 

More realistic scenario of 2 3 die focus attacks:

3 agility focus: 1.55 damage

Heroic Finn (ignoring ability to add blanks and heroic): 1.5 damage

 

If the counter argument is "Rose does that but better" then yes, everyone agrees.  But, being stuck at two attack dice is a huge problem.  You can't hit the soontirs/whispers of the worlds.  I'm also trying to say rose is good (criminally underrated, really), but Heroic Finn is probably the best 30 points in the game

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

Was just going to say: I don't understand why people still prefer Finn over Rose. Crackshot Rose is amazing value for the points.

But then again I also don't understand why Cova+Leia is a thing when I only see an X-wing that can stop/reverse. Just not my style I guess, but I really don't get it.

I dont have anything else to say but this:

Black Squadron Ace with Hull Upgrade 54

Cova with Leia 57. 

You are paying 3 points for a different dial and the ability to help your other ships in clutch turns. Am I sold completely on Leia Cova? No. I think R4 Cova with Pattern Analyzer for 45 points is more efficient but what do I know? I got trashed by @Sunitsa at that trial, so I would trust him more. Speaking of. 

 

31 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Is this you?  Resistance beef is decent in most forms.  Not tying oneself to Jess is probably helpful, but saying that Snap is bad is....something I cannot agree with.  

Wait, where are the droids?  Do you guys not have droids?  I could make Rey/Poe god tier in the meta I see from that #tinytrial.

I can argue why Pava Bastian and Snap are good but not Great. Somebody put it very nicely a couple of pages efficiency lists are high floor/low ceiling. I've been flying Big XXX Deal/XXX Cova quite religiously the last couple months and can confirm that after going all around Europe my worst result is 3-3 but my best result is 4-1. In the end it did get me a World invite but that was more accidental than anything else. Its a list that will walk all over an unsuspecting player, but if a player is out-flying me I am very limited in how to manage that. Now I am a very limited player so a smarter player will do better but I dont see this archetype as much more than a decent B plus list.

 

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

After fiddling around with some republic lists with no success nor particular fun achieved, I went back to resistance and won a world invite. 

I've found an extremely good core: cova with leia, just Heroic Finn and Bastian. The issue is I'm left with around 62 points that I find hard to spend on anything else actually good...

A fully loaded nien is allright at best (although it's pretty good against RAC who is very present in the current Italian meta) and is way over costed... 

I'm not sure there are better options thought, all other t70s pilots cost much more than what they are worth... Lulo might be an option that free more points for juicing the other ships, but it's not like they really need more and the other awings don't bring enough offense. 

A skinny Vennie can be considered but I would miss a ps 5 ship and I'm not sure a large base would be more painful for my opponent than to myself

 

TL;DR resistance beef is actually decent if it's not weighted by subpar pilots like pava or snap

Have you thought about slimming down Bastian to a Greer with Heroic and Advanced Optics and then replacing Nien with Poe. I noticed most of my losses come down to me not being able to close out the game once it ends up an opponents aces against my crippled list. The list desperately needs a closer and Im not sure who else could that be other than Poe.

Edited by Flurpy

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2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

More realistic scenario of 2 3 die focus attacks:

3 agility focus: 1.55 damage

Heroic Finn (ignoring ability to add blanks and heroic): 1.5 damage

Hm I don't think that's true.

I get 1.94 damage because it looks like you forgot the -1 agility on the second shot.

And accordingly, the 5 attacks end up at 6.2 damage for me. Though I would artificially pick 3 attacks as more relevant because a ship like Finn has a) no choice on how many times he gets shot, and b) pretty much every list has 3 attacks. 3 attacks with focus have a 46% chance to remove him from the board if none of them has a lock. The IMO more realistic case with 2-3 locks increases the 4damage probability to 73%-87%

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5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Hm I don't think that's true.

I get 1.94 damage because it looks like you forgot the -1 agility on the second shot.

And accordingly, the 5 attacks end up at 6.2 damage for me. Though I would artificially pick 3 attacks as more relevant because a ship like Finn has a) no choice on how many times he gets shot, and b) pretty much every list has 3 attacks. 3 attacks with focus have a 46% chance to remove him from the board if none of them has a lock. The IMO more realistic case with 2-3 locks increases the 4damage probability to 73%-87%

That's not how Finn's ability works.  You're ALWAYS taking a strain on the first attack entered that way - if you enter it the way I have, the only times Finn will add a focus (and take a strain) are when he needs it to avoid taking damage.

Edited by Brunas

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1 minute ago, Brunas said:

That's not how Finn's ability works.  You're ALWAYS taking a strain on the first attack entered that way - if you enter it the way I have, the only times Finn will add a focus (and take a strain) are when he needs it to avoid taking damage.

Cool, how do you do that?

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57 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Was just going to say: I don't understand why people still prefer Finn over Rose. Crackshot Rose is amazing value for the points.

But then again I also don't understand why Cova+Leia is a thing when I only see an X-wing that can stop/reverse. Just not my style I guess, but I really don't get it.

I haven't tried rose yet (but I will do, I like the rose + Greer suggestion), but 30 points Finn is insane value: he deal damage reliably or tanks like a mother tucker. 

He might not be the best ship to play against a swarm because when he gets 2-3 attacks he usually falls down, but aces list will waste time on target just to get his undercosted ***. If they don't, he'll force them to roll evades. 

His dial ain't that great but it's good enough and he got leia backup when played along with cova. 

Speaking of cova: she's a Bwing with 2 defense dice, that got to coordinate AND that can play tower defense. Seriously, being able to just stay put or reverse is crazy good! She's also able to speed up thanks to 4 straight and 3 banks being reds. 

Cova and Finn are probably the best non awing resistance ships by a wide margin right now. 

 

26 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Is this you?  Resistance beef is decent in most forms.  Not tying oneself to Jess is probably helpful, but saying that Snap is bad is....something I cannot agree with.  

Wait, where are the droids?  Do you guys not have droids?  I could make Rey/Poe god tier in the meta I see from that #tinytrial.

No, he's the guy I stole my list from. 

Sadly our trials average around 30 players all across the country. In the one I played there were  couple of droids swarms but I didn't face them and none made the cut. 

Snap costs too much, with composure it's the same points of naked wedge and he's far from having the same value. 

I used to play rey, i found the omnipresence of ps 5 sense to be a bigger issue than the droids (which weren't good either) 

8 minutes ago, RStan said:

I'm not with @gennataos on the Snap side, but Pava doesn't feel subpar at all. Granted I've only ran Pava next to a Fat Finn (PA/Copilot), but that seems like the correct pilot to be her wingmate anyway. Bastian just becomes the clear #1 target to clear off the board since he doesn't have any extra defensive upgrades or abilities in most cases, he will just die like any other T70. I personally think the best "Resistance Beef" starts with Cova, Jess and Fat Finn where the 4th ship could still be Bastian as a true BEEF if you want OR Greer with room for extra upgrades and bid if necessary (surprise it matters against Sear/Chertek swarms) to give you more of a tool box beef. 

I don't think Finn needs anything more than Heroic, him being cheap is one of his strongest point. 

Pava cost too much and force you to stick together to use her power. Bastian being target #1 is actually good: the fewer attacks on cova, the better, having pava on board will work against that. 

IMO bastian is the best t70 by far

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Just now, GreenDragoon said:

Cool, how do you do that?

Just entering the pilot ability as Finn does everything you want.  Since using his ability gives you a strain, the rest happens automatically.

@punkUser triggering Finn's ability currently doesn't give you a strain you monkey.  

https://github.com/punkUser/xwing_math/issues/24

 

@GreenDragoon thanks for the double check.  Let's punt till we make Andrew do free labor (if we're really lucky he'll make Finn pilot one option and it can do everything for us including adding blanks for heroic ;) )

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9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

He's only tankier for a single shot per turn and then pretty much explodes. You can cargue that's good for a 30pt ship to draw as much fire. But he draws about as much fire as a mid-i TIE fighter before he explodes.

And he has no access to double mods, which are (sadly again) so prevalent for other 3 attack ships. Why is that wrong? It has to be because I'm clearly missing something.

Part of my argument is the same as @Brunas, so I’m going to build on that and answer these points.

I think you are a little too fixated on the add focus part of his ability. I have found his add blank option to also be a reasonable aid in defense. It’s not an automatic thing like the Focus, but it can mean one more turn or even no damage, with luck. That plus his one “mega tank” turn means he can take longer to burn down than expected. Comparing to Rose, she does have more consistent rerolls, IF she has a friendly in the right arc. Even in formation, a squirrelly flanker can catch just Rose in arc and she has nothing. Rose is only Rose when she’s got friends in the right places. Heroic Finn is always Heroic Finn. Even with a Strain.

I also tend to have a higher opinion of the “Finn is bait” view of the pilot. If they’re pouring multiple shots into my little filler and not my big boys, I’m okay with that. Now, you don’t just throw him away. You want to last as long as possible to draw fire, so you have to get lay him smart. And if they ignore him, he can add a focus to his attack and potentially hit harder then anything in his “weight class”. Again, comparing to Rose, she has more consistent dice with friends, but a lower damage ceiling. I don’t mean to knock the consistency, that’s a good thing. But it requires more set up for less dice.

Your point about Finn not getting double mods compared to others begs a question: what ship can do that for the same or similar price point? Sure, Poe or Snap can get double mods, no problem. They are also more expensive than Finn. Another valuable thing to consider is even if you can find a three dice, double modded ship out there for 30, it isn’t in Resistance. I honestly think your dislike of viewing things along faction lines blinds you to realities of the game. If I could take say Wampa in my Resistance list, then I might not be so hot on Finn. But I can’t. If I want a filler ship that can do some damage in Resistance, the options are Finn and Rose. If I’m not flying formation, then Rose’s value goes down. Finn with Heroic always has some options. Maybe the dice gods frown and he dies in one shot. Happens to TIE fighters too. 

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53 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Can you sell me on Heroic Finn? Not the 42-43pt version but just with heroic.

As a guy who uses Rivas instead of the stock FO fighter: he's insane value that few factions can match at that filler price point. Heck, the disparity between his value and Blount's is laughable.

Can turtle on that 1 token if shot at, and could pump the aggro if not shot at. He's like Wampa, but with higher defense, potentially higher offense, and a shield. Not the best blocker, but you probably want to be using his gun most of its available time.

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