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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, RStan said:

While I'll gladly play Kylo and cry "EXECUTE ORDER 66" and "LET THE PAST DIE, KILL IT IF YOU HAVE TO" to all the Jedi, I do understand Kylo is still part of the problem. I just get more triggered by Jedi because non stress double reposition, FTC through gas clouds, regen, and now people realized what Juno Eclipse is like on your best ace...

Primed thrusters makes Kylo not care about his stressful double reposition (for a little while).

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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Let the forward arc ships moving first have their pay off for successfully executing on traditional in game non-list building counter play options against Aces.  

  • Forcing Aces to Stress or Over-Reposition
  • Blocking Aces
  • Forcing Aces to choose opt outs over obstacles or be trapped next to them ( Full Throttle, Fine Tuned, and Afterburner Rules are a similar issue ) 
  • Concentrated Fire ( This is the one of the few things it seems ok for Force charges to mitigate, "I have a focus and 2 calcs so i can defend against more than 1 shot" ) 

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40 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

"Turns out glitterstim for defense even when your blocked is a good strategy"

Its been a couple pages. 

Is it time to talk about how weird and randomly forgiving Force Charge rules are again? 

I dont think the meta is a question of Pre-movement mechanics vs Killer Swarms.

Premovement is still an ever present threat but I am pretty sure the comparison point is Force Charge infinite mod aces or Big Government Beef. 

 

35 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

@RStan

I think the community isnt as mad as it should be about Force Charge Rules because they are enjoying the brokenness of it enough not to care. 

"My Force Charge Ace is fair and balanced, but that other factions Force Charge Ace is a threat to the tegrity of the game"  

Oh, I see we already answered the question.

Time to move on.

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1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo is stupid for several reasons some of the main ones are: 

  • Double Reposition Stress and Have Mods 
  • Lock Reposition and Have Calc Mods 
  • Fly over Obstacles and Have Mods 
  • Fly into other ships and have Mods ( It super matters end game in the Kylo v 2 or 3 ship situations ) 
  • K-Turn or Talon and Have Mods 

maxresdefault.jpg

Every time I win using Kylo I wonder if I'm good, if my squad was good, or if it's just Kylo.  

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1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

"Turns out glitterstim for defense even when your blocked is a good strategy"

Its been a couple pages. 

Is it time to talk about how weird and randomly forgiving Force Charge rules are again? 

I dont think the meta is a question of Pre-movement mechanics vs Killer Swarms.

Premovement is still an ever present threat but I am pretty sure the comparison point is Force Charge infinite mod aces or Big Government Beef. 

 

1 hour ago, RStan said:

While I'll gladly play Kylo and cry "EXECUTE ORDER 66" and "LET THE PAST DIE, KILL IT IF YOU HAVE TO" to all the Jedi, I do understand Kylo is still part of the problem. I just get more triggered by Jedi because non stress double reposition, FTC through gas clouds, regen, and now people realized what Juno Eclipse is like on your best ace...

 

All force users are not created equal though.  I don't think "force charge infinite mod aces" are all equal - do you all hate Luke as much as you hate aethersprites?

 

1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

This is what triggers me - you forgot to add "on a 50 point ship" to all that.

Are people mad at CLT aethersprites?

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo is stupid for several reasons some of the main ones are: 

  • Double Reposition Stress and Have Mods 
  • Lock Reposition and Have Calc Mods 
  • Fly over Obstacles and Have Mods 
  • Fly into other ships and have Mods ( It super matters end game in the Kylo v 2 or 3 ship situations ) 
  • K-Turn or Talon and Have Mods 

Fanatical also gives you all of this - leads me to believe we're mad at defensive mods, right?  Offensive mads feel less bad - at least to me.

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1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Fanatical also gives you all of this - leads me to believe we're mad at defensive mods, right?  Offensive mads feel less bad - at least to me.

I dont mind offensive mods as much because even baseline stuff gets double mods (or just max hits) fairly often.  You want to make people hurt when you effectively carry out your plans.  High defensive mods just say "lol, no".

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo is stupid for several reasons some of the main ones are: 

  • Double Reposition Stress and Have Mods 
  • Lock Reposition and Have Calc Mods 
  • Fly over Obstacles and Have Mods 
  • Fly into other ships and have Mods ( It super matters end game in the Kylo v 2 or 3 ship situations ) 
  • K-Turn or Talon and Have Mods 

maxresdefault.jpg

[Especially Supernat] Kylo is stupid, and I'll give you that; it's why I fly him. But when either self or unintentionally blocked, your mods are going to be weak compared to other blocked force users, given no regen, his pricetag, and 3 dmg to half points. It also sucks so, so, badly to reroll blanks/foci into blanks/foci *PTSD from tournaments lost on easy killshots resurge*. To overcome this plague, you can install advanced optics on him, and in my experience of my latent adopting of this tech over other listbuilding options, it has worked wonders, especially given the pre-optic versatility of focus. However:

-It raises the pricetag, which is good for pointfortressing but forces me to be more cautious

-Only works if the action is taken, so intentional bumps are now more serious and I can't red maneuver all day like primed/pattern Kylo

-Typically runs force on the dry end, so I might have to pass on showing the dark side when I would really like to or have to do it when I'd rather keep the force. I.e., tougher decisions on that end.

Given how you can choose the stupidity of how good Kylo is at the expense of other options and thus not merely taking everything, I wouldn't equate him to regening force sensitive X Wings with double repo and 2-3 shields of regen (sometimes at I6). Kylo is typically "choose x number of cheats from y number options." I6 3 force Anakin's like "well, I already have my built-in pattern analyzer on top of Nien's ability on a very slightly worse version of autothrusters, so I guess I'll take regen and the obstacles that let me and not you act when running over them, give me my missing 3rd green and a passive evade, lol".

Not calling for nerfs. Just saying that Dark Side force users are not quite as powerful than Jedi. I guess the ultimate solution is take debris and Fac everyone in the Black Sun Assassin once the Nantec rolls up, ushering in the age in which all fly large base to avoid nasty tricks.

Edited by player3010587

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I'm mad at defensive mods.

Defensive mods are a BIG DEAL (Hi Finn). 

 

EDITED:

@Brunas the chassis of the force user is definitely a high contributing factor to certain force users feeling worse to deal with. Aethersprite just has a combination of great dial, great slots (Regen or Dial casual), and great ship ability on top of the force charges plus the user's own abilities. Silencer does have a lot of that as well, except the astromech slot...maybe that's the straw that broke it from my perspective on top of FTC feeling worse to play against than Autothrusters. 

Edited by RStan

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8 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Are people mad at CLT aethersprites?

Some people, and situational.

It's bad when you have three named aethersprites with CLT (all 2+ force charges and I4 and greater), supported by something else that hits hard. It's strange, but somehow double reposition allows for a lot of bulls eye attacks... which also coincidentally becomes an auto-hit. Unless you only run aces and huge tanks (I see you Kylo/Ups)

Generally, no, CLT isn't that annoying. It may not be unbalanced, but it certainly feels bad to have 'basically' multiple Soontir Fel's running around with a number of upgrades bolted on.

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4 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Not calling for nerfs. Just saying that Dark Side force users are not quite as powerful than Jedi

That's a really strange and meaningless artificial group...

13 minutes ago, Brunas said:

All force users are not created equal though.  I don't think "force charge infinite mod aces" are all equal - do you all hate Luke as much as you hate aethersprites?

It's the combination with good (read: double) reposition. That's why Vader is also only strong without going into NPE territory: you get frequent shots on him and the dice fail eventually.

Aethersprites and Kylo get both. Kylo is at least locked into blue maneuvers and somewhat predictable (even though he's not), but Aethersprite Jedi are not locked into blues, get double repo, and on top even regen. They get the best and regen on top. And Anakin doesn't even care about the eventual red maneuver if he wants to.

Other force users are mostly fine (tm). I still think the mechanic is too good and the game would be better without it. But in most cases it is still ok

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Posted (edited)

Force Charges should not work like always available expertise style mods. 

Change Force Charges to function like Purple Calculate "Actions" that can be taken multiple times in addition to your normal action and I will move on to being internet mad about something else. 

Game is about as good as its ever been so its a good time to take a look at the subtle stuff that can probably be improved. 

Full Thruttle, Fine Tuned, Afterburners, and Gas Clouds are next. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Force Charges should not work like always available expertise style mods. 

Change Force Charges to function like Purple Calculate "Actions" that can be taken multiple times in addition to your normal action and I will move on to being internet mad about something else. 

Game is about as good as its ever been so its a good time to take a look at the subtle stuff that can probably be improved. 

Full Thruttle, Fine Tuned, Afterburners, and Gas Clouds are next. 

What's worse,  Expertise Force or Boost/Roll after going over a rock Force?

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18 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't care about redesign sessions, but I have fully come around to force being a problem, as currently implemented.  

I’m still not sold that the force alone is a problem.

Aetherprites come with built in card combos

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I’m still not sold that the force alone is a problem.

Aetherprites come with built in card combos

It's always on passive mods that don't have to be earned aside from paying the cost of the pilot or upgrade and cannot be denied by my opponent in any way.  That's in direct opposition to what I thought the original design philosophy of 2.0 was, but I might just being inferring that.  

Edited by gennataos

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