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16 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Maybe that's "the rules," yet I still think it's absurd.

Yes, I agree.

I'm not sure what the judges can do differently in the moment though. After they can ask for a rule change. But that is later. There is not much room for interpretation in a practical fashion.

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So, we just learned that it was NOT about sfoils. Instead it was a relevant difference* and the game loss doubtlessly the right call.

I still think that in the case of (certain) 0pt upgrades a list adjustment should be ok and a discussion would be good. But not in this case.

*crackshot + bid vs optics and no bid

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You guys are missing the real reason why a 0 point upgrade can't be added.

FFG decided to make a broad floor rules for all its games, and while adding S-Foils into a list in X-Wing makes perfect sense when it's an auto take upgrade... that doesn't work in many (any?) FFG card games.

 

Right or wrong, could the judge have intervened, should FFG customize floor rules to individual games... more cans of worms.

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22 minutes ago, DragoonKainKatarn said:

You guys are missing the real reason why a 0 point upgrade can't be added.

FFG decided to make a broad floor rules for all its games, and while adding S-Foils into a list in X-Wing makes perfect sense when it's an auto take upgrade... that doesn't work in many (any?) FFG card games.

 

 Right or wrong, could the judge have intervened, should FFG customize floor rules to individual games... more cans of worms.

But the lack of individualization is precisely my criticism. I think it's unfortunate that the marshalls/judges can't apply their sense of proportion, can't actually judge and do their job in this question.

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

All language is, at some fundamental level, open to interpretation.  Maybe that's a little woo-woo postmodernist, and too far in the background to be relevant here in this specific case, but it shows up decently often*.

I can kinda see where the Judge is coming from.  And yet, this is S-Foils.  X-Wing equivalent of tearing the tag off a mattress.  An act that may be illegal, but at such a minor level that it's absurd for the law to act against it.  Like, the ultimate point of rules is fairness and justice.  Maybe that's "the rules," yet I still think it's absurd.

Well, that's just, like, MY opinion, man.

maxresdefault.jpg

 

* A great example is Qi'ra's ship on a rock.  Whether or not it can attack isn't a RAW vs a RAI debate, it's a question of what "while" means, and an issue of the interpretation of language.

I was thinking of the same movie, different scene regarding this whole event.  

"This is not 'Nam, there are rules."

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Posted (edited)

Moment of appreciation for this final table anecdote. Difficult to find more than one reason to be mad about this timeline. 

General Grievous — Belbullab-22 Starfighter 44
Kraken 10
Impervium Plating 4
Soulless One 6
Ship Total: 64
Half Points: 32 Threshold: 4
   
Techno Union Bomber — Hyena-Class Droid Bomber 26
Energy-Shell Charges 5
DRK-1 Probe Droids 5
Ship Total: 36
Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3
   
Trade Federation Drone — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 19
Energy-Shell Charges 5
Grappling Struts 1
Ship Total: 25
Half Points: 13 Threshold: 2
   
Trade Federation Drone — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 19
Energy-Shell Charges 5
Grappling Struts 1
Ship Total: 25
Half Points: 13 Threshold: 2
   
Trade Federation Drone — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 19
Energy-Shell Charges 5
Grappling Struts 1
Ship Total: 25
Half Points: 13 Threshold: 2
   
Trade Federation Drone — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 19
Energy-Shell Charges 5
Grappling Struts 1
Ship Total: 25
Half Points: 13 Threshold: 2

vs


Lieutenant Bastian T-70 X-wing (48)
Integrated S-foils
Jessika Pava T-70 X-wing (54)
BB Astromech + Integrated S-foils
Temmin Wexley T-70 X-wing (55)
Integrated S-foils + Composure
finn Resistance Transport Pod (43)
Perceptive Copilot + Heroic + Pattern Analyzer

 

Edited by Boom Owl

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8 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

So, we just learned that it was NOT about sfoils. Instead it was a relevant difference* and the game loss doubtlessly the right call.

I still think that in the case of (certain) 0pt upgrades a list adjustment should be ok and a discussion would be good. But not in this case.

*crackshot + bid vs optics and no bid

Then that's TOTALLY different.

Again, it's pretty much only S-Foils or Pivot Wing that I'd want a judge to just chill through.  Anything other than those--and specifically something as important as Crack Shot vs Advanced Optics--I'm 100% fine with judges handing out losses.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Im not exactly sure why but the Tie Fighter and Tie FO dials have always felt really unique. 
Lack of boost + relatively high speed moves unless your going to hard 1 turn. There dial seems to represent the movie ship very well. 
Alot of them are useful now after the point adjustment but I probably have the most table time with Scorch and Longshot. 

Both definitely can be considered "Real Ships"! 

opx02_scorch_plastic.png
Longshot_(Arthur_Adams).jpg

Both were X-Men characters to if that matters. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Im not exactly sure why but the Tie Fighter and Tie FO dials have always felt really unique. 
Lack of boost + relatively high speed moves unless your going to hard 1 turn. 
Alot of them are useful now after the point adjustment but I probably have the most table time with Scorch and Longshot. 

Both definitely can be considered "Real Ships"! 

opx02_scorch_plastic.png
Longshot_(Arthur_Adams).jpg

I love hanging Scorch just a little back so he's a bad target, but still hits hard and still has a follow up shot next turn.  

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4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I love hanging Scorch just a little back so he's a bad target, but still hits hard and still has a follow up shot next turn.  

Both Longshot and Scorch benefit a good deal from R3 followed by R1 combat. Also doesnt hurt if there is something on the table beside Kylo your opponent cant ignore. 

NVTFAHELMET002lg_grande.png?v=1447743879yp8YKrZ.jpg Set-of-2pcs-scotch-whisky-sphere-silicone-Ice-ball-maker-kotobukiya-star-wars-death-star-silicone.jpg_640x640q70.jpg   6cb5b02a6ad26f359314e755741437641506f41.jpg

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8 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Lieutenant Bastian T-70 X-wing (48)
Integrated S-foils
Jessika Pava T-70 X-wing (54)
BB Astromech + Integrated S-foils
Temmin Wexley T-70 X-wing (55)
Integrated S-foils + Composure
finn Resistance Transport Pod (43)
Perceptive Copilot + Heroic + Pattern Analyzer

 

Looks familiar... 

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Posted (edited)

"Turns out glitterstim for defense even when your blocked is a good strategy"

Its been a couple pages. 

Is it time to talk about how weird and randomly forgiving Force Charge rules are again? 

I dont think the meta is a question of Pre-movement mechanics vs Killer Swarms.

Premovement is still an ever present threat but I am pretty sure the comparison point is Force Charge infinite mod aces or Big Government Beef. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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Posted (edited)

@RStan

I think the community isnt as mad as it should be about Force Charge Rules because they are enjoying the brokenness of it enough not to care. 

"My Force Charge Ace is fair and balanced, but that other factions Force Charge Ace is a threat to the tegrity of the game"  

Edited by Boom Owl

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13 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

@RStan

I think the community isnt as mad as it should be about Force Charges because they are enjoying the brokenness of it enough not to care. 

"My Force Charge Ace is fair and balanced, but that other factions Force Charge Ace is a threat to the tegrity of the game"  

While I'll gladly play Kylo and cry "EXECUTE ORDER 66" and "LET THE PAST DIE, KILL IT IF YOU HAVE TO" to all the Jedi, I do understand Kylo is still part of the problem. I just get more triggered by Jedi because non stress double reposition, FTC through gas clouds, regen, and now people realized what Juno Eclipse is like on your best ace...

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10 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I think the community isnt as mad as it should be about Force Charge Rules because they are enjoying the brokenness of it enough not to care. 

I feel like I agree with this. It's instinctive, and not thought out to the point I can support this feeling with any kind of argument... but... yeah?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, RStan said:

While I'll gladly play Kylo and cry "EXECUTE ORDER 66" and "LET THE PAST DIE, KILL IT IF YOU HAVE TO" to all the Jedi, I do understand Kylo is still part of the problem. I just get more triggered by Jedi because non stress double reposition, FTC through gas clouds, regen, and now people realized what Juno Eclipse is like on your best ace...

Im here for the Jedi solve to many of the normal pre list building on the table counters against aces in list building argument. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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Posted (edited)

Kylo is stupid for several reasons some of the main ones are: 

  • Double Reposition Stress and Have Mods 
  • Lock Reposition and Have Calc Mods 
  • Fly over Obstacles and Have Mods 
  • Fly into other ships and have Mods ( It super matters end game in the Kylo v 2 or 3 ship situations ) 
  • K-Turn or Talon and Have Mods 

maxresdefault.jpg

Edited by Boom Owl

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