Jump to content
SaltMaster 5000

Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, player3010587 said:

The craziest part is how he tweaked and legitimized a meme list so many flew to ineffectivity back in the November-ish timeframes (ooh, shiny 3 I7 attacks single modded and left to die, lol). He flew it brilliantly, the absolute madman. Nobody ever would have seen the TAP as good, and he subverts all expectations.

-Edit- Forgot that the attacks of the hp meme list were double modded, but the defense was unmodded anyways.

Well see, I think they've always been good. The difference now is that you can fit the extra few toys in that make it slightly more competitive, plus the big bad wolves got neutered. So now they have FCS more or less free, for weak double mods on attack or defence, for the same price.

Notable that Matt consistently took the evade action, rather than over using the linked focus, which has always been the more effective way to fly them. And ofc, Jendon. They're at their most vulnerable when taking a lock.

Take all of that together and the surprise to me, is that more people aren't digging the ship now, and that Jendon/Conc combo especially.

I'm the only person that's put them on the table round here and pretty much every opponent has been impressed/frustrated by it, even going way back before any points changes.

It. Was. Always. Good.

When they went down by 3pt, I nearly peed myself.

Edited by Cuz05

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, TheOz said:

I mean it could just be regen is still undercosted...or needs to me limited to 1 in a list....it needs to be like all the other super strong mechanics...if your taking this then it’s gonna massively hinder your squad

This simple answer is it probably is undercosted.  Each charge acts as shield upgrade with an in-game cost and some restrictions on timing.  Of course, that in-game cost is sometimes negligible and offset by the fact you get two charges in one upgrade.   I’d guess Something like 1.25- 1.5x the cost of a single shield upgrade is the right spot for it.   So, Agi 2 would pay around 9 and Agi 3 around 12.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pink_Viking said:

This would be ideal and with only regen droids it wouldn't be that hard to keep track of dealt damage.

Problem is the wording. How do you keep track of the damage? How do you count shields regened before threshold? Remaining Shields - spent charges? And there will be this weird specific scenario where Spare Parts Canister charge is spent but both players are arguing what it was spent on.

If regen is a part of most competitive lists in six months, FFG will make it more expensive. Higher cost would make the ship itself higher pts bunker, but you wouldn't be able to afford other bells and whistles and/or a huge bid.

 

When a ship gives up half points put a crit marker on the pilot card. Any ship with a crit token on the card at the end counts as half points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

When a ship gives up half points put a crit marker on the pilot card. Any ship with a crit token on the card at the end counts as half points.

If at least one ship is giving up full or half points, that players bid is added to the other players mov...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, svelok said:

If at least one ship is giving up full or half points, that players bid is added to the other players mov...

Can some one remind me what are the downsides of:

1. Only points destroyed counts towards determining who won and tournament rankings (after wins)

Or

2. Scoring is same MoV as today, except bid is immediately given up when you start the game

?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, TheOz said:

Its like I totally  understand force is easy mode in its own way....but anything i5 or 6 with hyper mobility and regen is the same problem we have been dealing with since 1.0...and even limited it’s still a problem. Han regen is a problem too... imagine if vader or kylo could regen...

Han usually has a force point as well though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Can some one remind me what are the downsides of:

1. Only points destroyed counts towards determining who won and tournament rankings (after wins)

Or

2. Scoring is same MoV as today, except bid is immediately given up when you start the game

?

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z42X133WW87WW56W107WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs= ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In an attempt to derail the ongoing design session, the likes of which never really do anything...

My GenCon "feels" takeaways:

  • Counting is hard
  • Counting TIE fighters is super hard
  • In the 2+ years I've been playing the game, the meta has never felt more wide open and awesome
  • CIS swarms with cards that read like novellas aren't a ton of fun to play against and seem way spookier than they actually are
  • Imperials and Republic confirmed as best "I'm gunna win" bets
  • Everything else is kind of fine, too
  • X-Wing community is the best

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Polda said:

I don't quite get the point.

Under framework 1), killing 100 points and losing 80 is better than killing 40 and losing 0 running to time.  Under the rules we have, the latter is better and thus incentivizes such lists.

Under framework 2, if that Han runs a deep bid, he's starting down in points by that bid.

Edited by Ablazoned

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Caduceus01 said:

When a ship gives up half points put a crit marker on the pilot card. Any ship with a crit token on the card at the end counts as half points.

@svelok, "If at least one ship is giving up full or half points, that players bid is added to the other players mov..."

It's not that these ideas are bad, but I can see why the devs haven't done anything like this yet. 

It's simply another complication in the scoring system that you have to "know" and remember and do correctly, etc. 

People are more error prone when there's more to mess up. 

I imagine it's their goal to cost everything in such a way as to eliminate any bidding over 5-10 points. 

...Costing up almost every "OP" list to around 220 points, for example. 

Edited by Bucknife

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, gennataos said:

In an attempt to derail the ongoing design session, the likes of which never really do anything...

 My GenCon "feels" takeaways:

  • Counting is hard
  • Counting TIE fighters is super hard
  • In the 2+ years I've been playing the game, the meta has never felt more wide open and awesome
  • CIS swarms with cards that read like novellas aren't a ton of fun to play against and seem way spookier than they actually are
  •  Imperials and Republic confirmed as best "I'm gunna win" bets
  •  Everything else is kind of fine, too
  •  X-Wing community is the best

Watching from the sidelines this weekend its really difficult to find something X-Wing related to be mad about. 

Edited by Boom Owl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Deffly said:

Just imagine if the new 2 charge upgrade card in the Vonreng tie was regen for FO... 

https://images.app.goo.gl/tb1D4X26jybBRhHb9

Heck, if Heroic, WHICH WAS KYLO'S 1 TIME USE TITLE IN 1ST ED BUT GOT A MASSIVE DISCOUNT AND FACTION LOCKING, was made into a 6 pt generic tech, I'd be happy. The power cells won't be regen given how variance-correcting it would be for TIE/vn's and TIE/ba's, but also for how it would bust Quickdraw and Tavson regardless of how limited its use would be if reasonably costed.

Edited by player3010587

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

Can some one remind me what are the downsides of:

1. Only points destroyed counts towards determining who won and tournament rankings (after wins)

Or

2. Scoring is same MoV as today, except bid is immediately given up when you start the game

?

1. Has the problem of the mutual best result is 200-199, and some perverse incentives such as flying ships off the board on purpose to inflate your opponents score with no downside (unless it causes you to then lose). Also, not every game is worth the same number of points, which apparently a problem in the nhl? I don’t really get that part. 

 

2. I like this more, but really only that it mostly starts a game not in a tied state, putting pressure on someone. I’d be a little worried about super defensive squads with no bid, trying to preserve the early lead given to them. That doesn’t sound very fun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jagsba said:

Han usually has a force point as well though...

Yeah but he often pays for Luke gunner to get it, regen still only costs him 10 points...and guess what it’s probably still worth it...also Han without regen probably doesn’t want to pay for Luke gunner

 

really though it seems regen is most degenerate when combined with great mobility...way more then agility value( the best green dice are the ones not rolled)

Edited by TheOz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

If one thinks bidding is a mechanic that is bad for the game (I do, personally), just make First Player flat-out random.

I don't think bidding is bad; bidding is a potential red flag. High bids doing well are often a sign of severely underpriced lists or abusive mechanics (eg overly consistent defense, regen); or even just super skewed matchups (huge advantage moving last, huge disadvantage moving first - game approaches rock/paper/scissors). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, svelok said:

I don't think bidding is bad; bidding is a potential red flag. High bids doing well are often a sign of severely underpriced lists or abusive mechanics (eg overly consistent defense, regen); or even just super skewed matchups (huge advantage moving last, huge disadvantage moving first - game approaches rock/paper/scissors). 

I'd agree with that.  I like the concept of a bid.

I like that I don't have to try to fill up ships with upgrades I don't want, I like getting some sort of benefit in the game from it.  But the benefit seems too strong, particularly that a very small difference in bid can have a huge impact.

Is there some way to combine bids and randomness?  Bid--with diminishing returns--slightly improving a dice roll-off for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to go to 200.  And with random First Player, there would still be a benefit.  (Namely, your last ship would be worth it's actual points, plus your bid.  Since games seem to go to time much more in 2E, that's meaningful.)

Random First Player would fix all of the problems with bidding and some of the problems with FFG's inability to figure out the true worth of hypermobile I-6 pilots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...