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52 minutes ago, RStan said:

Also, can we discuss WHY this FO List won the AZ Trial? HOW it works and moves. What makes it all come together to win games? What advantages does it have over current popular lists? Does the 2 pt bid matter that much for QD or should that Epsilon Cadet be Lt. Rivas? Ignore the potential "It's just a trial against and not a big event. Just a fluke!" for now, what are thoughts about this? 

Evan, the winner, is crazy good with 5+ ship lists.  I don't expect many average people to be able to pick up his list and consistently win with it.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

Evan, the winner, is crazy good with 5+ ship lists.  I don't expect many average people to be able to pick up his list and consistently win with it.

While that obviously helps, why choose this combination of 5+ ships over any other 5+ ship list available in hyperspace? 5+ ship in Hyperspace includes Sinker Swarms, TIE Swarms (granted it's one giant ship), Imperial i5x5, CIS Droid combinations, 5As, and Chewie 4Pods are all there to potentially tryout/use instead. Why this set of FO ships is more of the question. 

Edited by RStan

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, gennataos said:

Soooo...what counters Jedi?

Focusing fire and overwhelming them into running out of force & regen charges early. 
Being able to switch targets "logically" while one full disengages.
Not letting them flank your entire list while you try to chase the partially damaged Obi Wan/Anakin. 
Building traps and getting some spike damage in. 
Panic Pilot crits help alot. 
Taking things that are able to k-turn or sloop and have mods so the Jedi dont get more and better shots against you after sloops and 5 ks. 
Jam helps considerably to prevent the R1 Lock 2 Charge Alpha Strikes. 
Running i5 & i6 is baseline helpful so they dont init kill you constantly. 
Don't shoot Ric Oli if hes got a token and agility stack. Kill the other stuff. 
Debri seem weirdly helpful to prevent the Fly over Rock and Boost Anyway Run Away because Mace is nervous crap.
Good players opt 100% out of scary engagements often. Flying over rocks and repositioning is actually part of the engagement strategy. 

As much as I complain about Force Charges, its actually achievable to force them to "over spend" their charges and "fully" disengage while you either chase or start making progress with the other parts of their list. 

Also side note but alot of Jedi Players are very aggressive about their action choices, they Target lock and spend their force charges on attack or reposition/boost just because the card says they can, not because they actually need to. That leaves them really vulnerable on defense. (vs just focusing or evading or not re positioning to begin with). 

Edited by Boom Owl

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3 hours ago, gennataos said:

Soooo...what counters Jedi?

People flying them wrong. D O N T J O U S T T H E U P S I L O N S Y O U H A V E T H E F A R M O R E M O B I L E L I S T A N D S H O U L D P W N T H A T T A V S O N.

Honestly, I think it's gotta be matching their mobility. The move from pondering beef to zippy bois is exhilarating! FOR THE REPUBLIC!

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15 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

People flying them wrong. D O N T J O U S T T H E U P S I L O N S Y O U H A V E T H E F A R M O R E M O B I L E L I S T A N D S H O U L D P W N T H A T T A V S O N.

Honestly, I think it's gotta be matching their mobility. The move from pondering beef to zippy bois is exhilarating! FOR THE REPUBLIC!

You may be saying this as a joke but I have a local who plays republic that always seem to land Anakin in range 1 of tavson...he really hates that ship for some reason

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Also side note but alot of Jedi Players are very aggressive about their action choices, they Target lock and spend their force charges on attack or reposition/boost just because the card says they can, not because they actually need to. That leaves them really vulnerable on defense. (vs just focusing or evading or not re positioning to begin with). 

I don't bring Jedi not to reposition every turn.

I still laugh over how "bad" the "opportunity cost" of the purple evade is. It's taking your action to increase the effectiveness of a green die from 62.5% to 100%. Because no one ever messes up and can't get out of other ships arc(s) and doesn't want to prevent damage.

 

That said some other things:

Be aware of all the positions a 1 turn + BR + Boost can end up, and possible locations

Be aware of how much ground the 3 bank + BR + Boost can cover, and possible locations

Get him them into the asteroids to limit his movement options and allow you to set up easier nets. They might be able to reposition from going over a gas cloud/asteroid, but that still costs a force and possible damage.

Edited by Smikies02

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What's a good way to systematically define "unresolved game that went to time?". I don't want to have to dig through each matchup and final score to figure out what was left on the table at the end.  Points remaining ratio?  Points remaining advantage?

Oh wait lol doesn't matter average rounds played is the same anyway, at least at our last HST:

AllGamesGoToHeaven.JPG

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1 hour ago, Ablazoned said:

What's a good way to systematically define "unresolved game that went to time?". I don't want to have to dig through each matchup and final score to figure out what was left on the table at the end.  Points remaining ratio?  Points remaining advantage?

How do I read the graphs? They are all suspiciously somewhere between 10 and 12 when I expect only full integers for rounds

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

How do I read the graphs? They are all suspiciously somewhere between 10 and 12 when I expect only full integers for rounds

I took self-reported turn counts for my Hyperspace trial (78% actually got reported, which was astoundingly high imo).  X axis is "where I draw the line" as far as whether I define a match as "clearly settled winner".

The top one is average rounds completed for games in which no player got all 200 points, versus the ratio of points the losing player had at time to the points bthe winner had.  The closer to 1, the closer the game was.

Bottom grap is similar except versus the difference in points instead of ratio.

My conclusion is that, in our HST, if a match didn't end, it took an average of 10-11 rounds regardless of how close it was at the end.

Games that ended on average took 9.7 rounds to complete, iirc.  If that's true more globally, I'm completely fine with overall rounds counts around 12, I think.

Edited by Ablazoned

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6 hours ago, gennataos said:

Soooo...what counters Jedi?

Shooting at them in arc with dice mods. They only have the two evade dice after all. Just make sure you go slow and don't overcommit to lanes that they don't have to go down.

But if you want to counter Jedi (and the game, spirit of competition, the concept of fun, time management), then I would just play the best list in the game, aka Inferno Swarm. Jedi can't come around and flank if you don't give them enough time to do that.

Seriously. Tie Swarm with Gas clouds and Iden wrecks basically 90% of other lists before dials are placed.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, RStan said:

I AGREE! Anyone know what stream was used at that trial? I'd really like to watch his game(s). 

our first-time X-Wing streamer "CJ Foxx" was doing that stream. His twitch doesn't archive, but he says he'll have them up on YouTube by Friday.

Evan was on-stream three times, I think. In the swiss vs 5 Jedi Knights, then the semi-final and the final.

Edited by skotothalamos
linky

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2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Speaking of... thoughts?

seems like a solid list when flown by someone who knows how to fly generic spam lists. Alex Farley is that kind of player. He took 5 X-Wings to NOVA last year and went 7-0 until he lost in top32. He got his Worlds invite flying quad Phantoms at Denver. His losses Saturday were to Evan's FO list and a Rebel Beef list. He lost to a TIE Swarm at league on Thursday, then beat the same player round 1 on Saturday.

I haven't run it, but it seems really good for the sort of player who likes to fly a block of generics and roll modded red dice.

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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

How is it not just a worse 5A?

Rear arc, shield, dial, boost that doesn't reduce offense, optics instead of bullseye...

I don't quite understand

I think it has to do with the bullseye-enabled 4-hit attacks.

but like i said, not my kind of list so I'm not the one to answer.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

How do I read the graphs? They are all suspiciously somewhere between 10 and 12 when I expect only full integers for rounds

if a graph about x-wing isn't utterly inscrutable, is it really a graph about x-wing?

Not calling out @Ablazoned. It's nowhere near the worst graph I've seen

Edited by jagsba

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

How is it not just a worse 5A?

Rear arc, shield, dial, boost that doesn't reduce offense, optics instead of bullseye...

I don't quite understand

There's a lot double dipping in your advantage list.

  • Overall, the Delta is effectively much more maneuverable.
    • Can double repo in either order and with no stress
    • Can do BR or boost+either mod with no stress
    • If you compare dials considering likelihood of being stressed, Delta wins by a mile
    • Can repo even on clouds/ionized/etc
  • Overall, the CLT is probably averaging more hits landed per attack
    • RZ2 is a little more powerful out of bullseye but Delta is much more powerful in
    • At R1 bullseye is amuch more likely, so a few R1 || shots in a game it all it takes to beat RZ2s in terms of damage (average per attack)

Not saying RZ2 isn't better though, arc time advantage could offset all of that

Edited by prauxim

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Posted (edited)

@Brunas that bit on completing games is the first time I heard about it. 81% vs 42%58% is crazy!

e: two questions:

1. did you post that somewhere before?

2. would it be too much to get that into relation of total hulls+shields? Not that this is the best way to assess defense, but it's one part.

 

e2: tangent to the action efficiency: it feels like there are plenty topics that could use more discussion and longform articles, this is one of them

Edited by GreenDragoon

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