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15 minutes ago, Brunas said:

How about you regen a force charge after fulling executing a maneuver.

 

****, all recurring charges are recovered after fully executing a maneuver.

I'm in.  

Except for Passive Sensors. 

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Just now, Tlfj200 said:

Wait, why are we mad at target locks?

I'm mad at target locks.  Favors high initiative ships for anti-thematic reasons.

 

You should be locking while far away from things, not close to them anyways.  Why do higher initiative ships get to be better at munitions for no real reason?

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4 hours ago, Brunas said:

Wedge went up 3 and is still totally playable - Cassian went up 4 and is "out"?

But are you going to play cassian without braylen?thats a +8. 

Even if you do, wedge is much more self reliable than cassian. On many list I'd rather pay the leia's +4 than cassian's

4 hours ago, Brunas said:

 

 

Hate on Infiltrators seems pretty much the same situation as Moldy Crow - I see people complaining it's too expensive, but even at 9 points for hate (and 18 for Moldy) I've never seen the idea of a hate-less infiltrator, or title-less modly crow ever.  Basically, I don't believe you? 9 points for 5-9 calculate tokens over the game is absolutely obscene value.  It makes first edition Expertise look overpriced by comparison.

Hate definitely needed to go up, what bothers me is that it went up along Maul and dooku base costs while also still be a gift for stuff like kylo. 

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3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Wait, why are we mad at target locks?

I wanted to be able to choose a target before measuring and be able to fail it. 

But I'm to mad about it. I'm mad about completing manouvers. 

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23 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Acceptable. 

I just want Aces players to live in fear of blocks.

I want non-intel/sense blocking to be so fundamental to gameplay that people call it an NPE.

In the meantime, sense blocking until moral improves

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20 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

"what bothers me is that it went up along Maul and dooku base costs while also still be a gift for stuff like kylo. "

Why is it a "gift" on Kylo?  Since he cannot regen, it's not like Hate on Kylo is ideal.  In tough matches, you want to only use it 1-2 times, since 3 times puts you at half points.

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17 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm mad at target locks.  Favors high initiative ships for anti-thematic reasons.

 

You should be locking while far away from things, not close to them anyways.  Why do higher initiative ships get to be better at munitions for no real reason?

Dutch and Garven wanted it that way, but the Skywalkers have a controlling stake in Galactic Munitions Inc.

 

14 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I wanted to be able to choose a target before measuring and be able to fail it. 

You could have a special target lock with Fail on it.

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2 hours ago, RunnerAZ said:

Why is it a "gift" on Kylo?  Since he cannot regen, it's not like Hate on Kylo is ideal.  In tough matches, you want to only use it 1-2 times, since 3 times puts you at half points.

This is why I'm eager to test out Brilliant Evasion on him. 

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Posted (edited)

With Hate/Brilliant Evasion, I kinda get the desire to swap to BE.  It potentially adds evades or it saves force when adding the same number of evades.  But it doesn't really happen that often.  It's kind of Heroic-level evades added.  Now, maybe that's still worthwhile.  But it's not like 1e Autothrusters or Lone Wolf or something which could be reliably counted on to prevent multiple incoming damage.

Hate seems like "Oh, I don't want to take damage, so I don't want Hate."  But no one wants to take damage.  Folks take R2 Astromechs and so forth, because you *do* wind up taking damage.  Folks guess wrong and end up in a bad spot.  Over the course of multiple attacks, Hate can end up preventing more damage than Brilliant Evasion.

Let's stack the deck some, and give Kylo that 4th green die, to make it more likely he'll get double focus.  Kylo at Range 3 vs four 3-dice focused attacks, starting with 2 force.  No talent: 2.282 damage expected.  Brilliant Evasion: 2.016 damage expected.  Hate: 1.915 damage expected.  http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=JAAAAAAAAAAU&a1=AgMAAA&a2=AgMAAA&a3=AgMAAA&a4=AgMAAA

To be fair, if there's only one incoming attack, with Kylo starting on a single force charge, Hate (or no talent) expects 0.484 damage, while Brilliant Evasion expects 0.362. Again, BE is kinda Heroic-level. http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=FAAAAAAAAAAF&a1=AgMAAA

As I see it, Hate gives you force at those times when you need the force the most, and can easily provide more evades than Brilliant Evasion.  I'm sticking with Hate or nothing (or Supernatural Reflexes, when I want to fail miserably at trying to copy PhilGC).  Probably often nothing, since there's always one more thing that I'd usually like to squeeze into a First Order list.

And if I was really good at not getting into bad positions, I'd almost surely rather have bid than Hate or Brilliant Evasion.

//

Speaking of Kylo Lists:

Kylo (shirtless), Blackout (Fanatical), Avenger (Fanatical).  I think I'd rather have the words of Blackout/Avenger than two First Order Test Pilots.

Edited by theBitterFig

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4 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I think sense is generally an underrated card.

As someone who ran it competitively, its not underrated by much. The good part is, the opponent gives up on being unpredictable and just dials in the most robust choice. The bad part is, the opponent gives up on being unpredictable and just dials in the most robust choice.

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46 minutes ago, prauxim said:

As someone who ran it competitively, its not underrated by much. The good part is, the opponent gives up on being unpredictable and just dials in the most robust choice. The bad part is, the opponent gives up on being unpredictable and just dials in the most robust choice.

This. When you steal their agency you also steal their ability to royally screw up

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2 hours ago, prauxim said:

As someone who ran it competitively, its not underrated by much. The good part is, the opponent gives up on being unpredictable and just dials in the most robust choice. The bad part is, the opponent gives up on being unpredictable and just dials in the most robust choice.

I ran/run it as well.   There are some that recognize its value but I think that contingent is small, and mostly to people that have run it, I think -- that's all I was saying.

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3 hours ago, RunnerAZ said:

Here's a secret: Sense is stupid good on Kylo

But don't tell anyone. 

Lucky for us, no one takes these forums/posts seriously. 

I know but I needed it to come down one more point for the list I want to run. ☹️

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Brunas said:

Wedge went up 3 and is still totally playable - Cassian went up 4 and is "out"?

e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x

Potentially, in the same list anyway. Breaking up the Beatles gives us options now, and you can even fit George, Paul, and Ringo in a list, but you can’t take John anymore, or rather, you have to drop Paul for John and vice versa. I do think Cassian will get played less as people begin to experiment, but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad ship, just out of season. I could be totally wrong, and it’s Wedge or the B-wings getting swapped.

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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