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6 minutes ago, RStan said:

Kinda, but each of those things require you to use your action on it and it's only usable once as of now. So I'm not as worried about this as others seem to be. It's a worse countermeasures since that was Start of Engagement in 1st ed and didn't require an action as well. 

Not ready to over-react just yet. Just surprised to see that many things in 1. 

The break locks bit seems like its most directly useful on higher init ships. 

Seems like a decent option on Poe, Nien, Luke, Wedge, Ello, etc at least. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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1 minute ago, gennataos said:

They're going to have to price it out as an option on my T-70s, no matter what droid is flying copilot.

So 4+ pts and yes, we'd be safe from 4 rookie T70s with BB Astromech and Spare Parts Canisters. 

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1 minute ago, RStan said:

So 4+ pts and yes, we'd be safe from 4 rookie T70s with BB Astromech and Spare Parts Canisters. 

Like the Juke Phantoms, that'll just mean one doesn't have it.  He'll be presented to shoot at first!  ;)

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4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Not ready to over-react just yet. Just surprised to see that many things in 1. 

The break locks bit seems like its most directly useful on higher init ships. 

Seems like a decent option on Poe, Nien, Luke, Wedge, Ello, etc at least. 

I think Poe and Jedi might get the most use out of Spare Parts Canisters. Poe because of double action ability. Jedi because they still have force charges and can choose to use ship ability to reposition via force after fully executed maneuver then still do normal action. 

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2 minutes ago, RStan said:

I think Poe and Jedi might get the most use out of Spare Parts Canisters. Poe because of double action ability. Jedi because they still have force charges and can choose to use ship ability to reposition via force after fully executed maneuver then still do normal action. 

Advanced Optics on Kylo is maybe looking nice if breaking locks becomes popular. 

Wonder how this impacts Regen Astros if at all. 

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15 minutes ago, jagsba said:

I'm going to try the 6 at some point. But there's something nice with knowing you can have a ship just die and still be at the same ship count as a 6 tie swarm.

If you don't lose any ships in the initial engage you're probably slightly better off with the 7... but that's unfortunately a bit of an if.

Assuming a pure R2 engage and assuming gideon gets to trigger (realistically he will shooting last vs. tie fighters), there's a ~64% chance (http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=gwAAQAAAAAAA&a1=AQM&a2=AQM&a3=AQM&a4=AQM&a5=AwM&a6=AwM) you lose a tie before the bulk of your guys fire. If that's howl, it's game over of course whereas that is nearly impossible with the named swarm. If it's another tie you're probably still at a disadvantage at that point as you're the same ship count with worse ships.

If you end up with a partial R2-R3 engage that's less likely though and in that situation I don't think it's clear where the advantage lies. Agreed more bodies is nice once you get into "no actions" territory, but after the initial engage so many ships are k-turning that it's not as if you have a ton of ships getting both actions *and* good shots as well.

And it's really hard to give up those `1-2 3 die shots... they're hugely better than even double modded 2 dice and almost required to threaten certain aces.

TBH I haven't played the mirror enough to say for sure either way though... tie swarm mirrors aren't very fun and no one is flying swarms anyones so it hasn't come up much :)

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3 minutes ago, punkUser said:

If you don't lose any ships in the initial engage you're probably slightly better off with the 7... but that's unfortunately a bit of an if.

Assuming a pure R2 engage and assuming gideon gets to trigger (realistically he will shooting last vs. tie fighters), there's a ~64% chance (http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=gwAAQAAAAAAA&a1=AQM&a2=AQM&a3=AQM&a4=AQM&a5=AwM&a6=AwM) you lose a tie before the bulk of your guys fire. If that's howl, it's game over of course whereas that is nearly impossible with the named swarm. If it's another tie you're probably still at a disadvantage at that point as you're the same ship count with worse ships.

If you end up with a partial R2-R3 engage that's less likely though and in that situation I don't think it's clear where the advantage lies. Agreed more bodies is nice once you get into "no actions" territory, but after the initial engage so many ships are k-turning that it's not as if you have a ton of ships getting both actions *and* good shots as well.

And it's really hard to give up those `1-2 3 die shots... they're hugely better than even double modded 2 dice and almost required to threaten certain aces.

TBH I haven't played the mirror enough to say for sure either way though... tie swarm mirrors aren't very fun and no one is flying swarms anyones so it hasn't come up much :)

That r2 engage is very likely the best engage for 6. The 7 has strength because it can get blocks off.

I haven't seen a lot of mirrors either but the ones I've seen and from talking to old players from 1e, the bodies and blocking are far more important than shooting first. 

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Tie swarm mirrors are irrelevant. They rarely, if ever, happen.

What matters is matchups against 3Ace/trench run schlock.

In that case, I would take the 6 because they have more words and words on your card can be a replacement for positional choices.

However, ideally some non-howl, non-iden swarm would be viable. Unfortunately, the only list type of that nature is Sloane atm: Words are undercosted.

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5 hours ago, jagsba said:

I haven't seen a lot of mirrors either but the ones I've seen and from talking to old players from 1e, the bodies and blocking are far more important than shooting first. 

Right that was true in 1e but Iden actually changes things a fair amount. To be honest I don't think it really matters because I think it's clear that no one wants to run Tie Swarms (despite their whining pre-2.0) and so the chance of swarm mirrors - let alone teching for swarm mirrors - is low :)

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2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

So, Poe shoots QD with a Jamming Beam, removing LOCK and Focus, rest of list melts QD's shields for no damage in return.  My anecdotal edge case use of a free upgrade doesn't align with your narrative.

HS legal Jamming Beam when?

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