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30 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I keep hearing similar stuff. Did someone say something or are we all just hoping?

I'm going to be realistic and say FFG raises it something petty like 3 points. It's not performing in extended because the power level of extended is so far beyond a 12 point supernatural smh. Hyperspace is the real format, but since we haven't gone through a season of mainly hyperspace tournaments yet, they'll be hesitant to raise it anything meaningful. 

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2 hours ago, Brunas said:

I keep hearing similar stuff. Did someone say something or are we all just hoping?

Both, really. We got a vague answer from Nova 2018 Q&A that supernatural was a card that FFG had their eye on and would likely keep going up in price as time went on. But that’s about it, so natural speculation would be to boost its cost for the aces that favor it so much. I know from earlier in this thread it was discussed what’s the threshold for supernatural being to expensive for a pilot like Kylo, and I’m guessing it’s the point threshold where you can take another cheap ship or supernatural. (Academy pilot or supernatural on Vader, for example)

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9 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I also didn’t realize how bad that joust is for the SFs, but I question whether they even want optics. It’s a marginal improvement for a 3 die attack, and it adds up fast in FO. I think I’d rather have Midnight, QuickDraw, and two fanatical SFs. 

Against a 2 agi ship it's a 25% increase in damage. It's also pretty good luck mitigation: it's what heroic wishes it was.

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3 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Against a 2 agi ship it's a 25% increase in damage. It's also pretty good luck mitigation: it's what heroic wishes it was.

I mean, yes and no? You're right that it's ~ 25% increase in damage for 1-on-1 with an AGI 2 ship, assuming you both have your focus. 

Attack with focus: 1.074

Attack with focus / optics: 1.321

1.32 / 1.07 = 22.9% boost in average damage

However, it really doesn't show improvements in scale even in the preferred case where you can mass firepower: 

3x attack with focus against AGI 2 with focus: 3.70 damage, with a 12% chance to do 6 damage and end a T-65.  

3x attack with focus / optics against the same: 4.49 damage, with a 25% chance to do 6 damage and end a T-65. 

4.49 / 3.70 = 21% boost in average damage

So yes, it's something that smoothes out your dice variance, but the opportunity cost is that you have to hold onto your focus token in order to make this work, which means that you're not able to use it on defense without nerfing your offense into oblivion.. the same 3x attack without focus yields only 1.95 average damage, with a 1% chance of taking an opponent's ship off the board. For lower initiative ships that can get I-killed, I'm not sure that it's worth it to hold on and take damage when you know you're not doing tremendous burst damage for that cost. My counter-proposal squad argues that it might be a better use of points to drop the optics and bring some I6s instead that can make an effort to force your opponent to use their tokens before they can hit your I2 and I3 ships.

 

Of course, this is also a bit of a meta call. If FFG makes generics more attractive and the average I level goes down, it's fine. But when you know that you're going to hit 4s, 5s, and/or 6s in every game, I'd be really worried about getting guns on target and not getting initiative killed when I did. 

 

Tangentially, my prediction is that FFG doesn't (substantially) touch points on anything that isn't hyperspace. They're conservative because they're resource-capped, and we all know extended is a meme format anyway. I don't think they'll waste the time on anything but the most egregious extended cards, but anything in Hyperspace is fair game for a substantial change.    

 

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So brainstorm here....what if strikers were re-balanced with 3H/1S instead of just 4 hull at the same price?  It's not a total game changer but it does give them a tiny bit more forgiveness vs proton bombs/proton torps.  It also helps Sabacc a little bit since he gets one more hit before his ability is shut off.

Edited by viedit

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26 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I mean, yes and no? You're right that it's ~ 25% increase in damage for 1-on-1 with an AGI 2 ship, assuming you both have your focus. 

Attack with focus: 1.074

Attack with focus / optics: 1.321

1.32 / 1.07 = 22.9% boost in average damage

However, it really doesn't show improvements in scale even in the preferred case where you can mass firepower: 

3x attack with focus against AGI 2 with focus: 3.70 damage, with a 12% chance to do 6 damage and end a T-65.  

3x attack with focus / optics against the same: 4.49 damage, with a 25% chance to do 6 damage and end a T-65. 

4.49 / 3.70 = 21% boost in average damage

So yes, it's something that smoothes out your dice variance, but the opportunity cost is that you have to hold onto your focus token in order to make this work, which means that you're not able to use it on defense without nerfing your offense into oblivion.. the same 3x attack without focus yields only 1.95 average damage, with a 1% chance of taking an opponent's ship off the board. For lower initiative ships that can get I-killed, I'm not sure that it's worth it to hold on and take damage when you know you're not doing tremendous burst damage for that cost. My counter-proposal squad argues that it might be a better use of points to drop the optics and bring some I6s instead that can make an effort to force your opponent to use their tokens before they can hit your I2 and I3 ships.

 

Of course, this is also a bit of a meta call. If FFG makes generics more attractive and the average I level goes down, it's fine. But when you know that you're going to hit 4s, 5s, and/or 6s in every game, I'd be really worried about getting guns on target and not getting initiative killed when I did. 

 

Tangentially, my prediction is that FFG doesn't (substantially) touch points on anything that isn't hyperspace. They're conservative because they're resource-capped, and we all know extended is a meme format anyway. I don't think they'll waste the time on anything but the most egregious extended cards, but anything in Hyperspace is fair game for a substantial change.    

 

The addendum is that i only use it in lists with multiple copies, specifically lists where I would expect to outnumber my opponent. If my opponent is splitting fire, that's fine by me.

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10 hours ago, Brunas said:

I keep hearing similar stuff. Did someone say something or are we all just hoping?

In 99% sure this is all just hope, @Brunas.

As a programmer, and looking at the current features in the app, I'd be shocked if they added a scaling cost feature to that card so soon. Hopefully eventually, but again, I'd be shocked at such an intentional programming feature so soon. It'd be easier and cheaper to just raise the overall cost for it everywhere for now. 

But I completely agree, it should have a scaling cost, because we are seeing a massive difference in loadouts for generic/low Initiative pilots. (Or just plain no-shows. I mean in what world would SupNat be a viable option on generic Inquisitors or I3 Jedi Knights? 8 points? 4 points? I don't know, but it'd be nice to have the option. )

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54 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

The addendum is that i only use it in lists with multiple copies, specifically lists where I would expect to outnumber my opponent. If my opponent is splitting fire, that's fine by me.

Does that actually solve the problem? It does seems like fun, though. 

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3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

 I mean in what world would SupNat be a viable option on generic Inquisitors or I3 Jedi Knights? 8 points? 4 points? I don't know, but it'd be nice to have the option. )

Maybe? Sabine is so good because she's a cheap SNR platform.

But if you make SNR cheap for mid i ships (haven't seen a force user below i3) you're not really solving the generic problem so much as making one type of generic (potentially) viable at the cost of everything lower I than it. 

That being said. PTL starvipers were a similar sort of beast and they never saw much play so it might be fine. I'm still opposed on principle to SNR being the antithesis of a game where dials matter. 

Edited by jagsba

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4 hours ago, viedit said:

So brainstorm here....what if strikers were re-balanced with 3H/1S instead of just 4 hull at the same price?  It's not a total game changer but it does give them a tiny bit more forgiveness vs proton bombs/proton torps.  It also helps Sabacc a little bit since he gets one more hit before his ability is shut off.

I don’t know, I like the striker as is in its current configuration. Sure the extra shield would be nice, but Presumably you’re already slapping shield upgrade on Sabacc anyway, and is one extra shield on Sabacc really going to make the difference anyway? There’s also the other strikers to consider. Duchess literally doesn’t care, at least not anymore than any other ship with one shield, and countdown you’re better off with hull because you’re going to be hurting yourself anyway, so it really doesn’t matter in that instance.

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18 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

The i3 TAP is only 4 points cheaper than the i3 striker

Both are subpar ships

33 point BSS with Crack, 28 point Sentinels or Riot.

Debris Gambit Sabine is 40 and Inquisitor + SNR is 52, which was the comparison being made.

save 12 points, trade a green die for a red die. seems good.

 

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1 hour ago, skotothalamos said:

Debris Gambit Sabine is 40 and Inquisitor + SNR is 52, which was the comparison being made.

save 12 points, trade a green die for a red die. seems good.

 

All valid.

TGI is an I5, though. 

Sabine does her shenanigans at I3. 

And.... Inquisitor can get his 3 dice every turn, but he'll just not be doing force mods. 

But an extra red die is probably better than a soft focus anyway. 

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Just now, Bucknife said:

All valid.

TGI is an I5, though. 

Sabine does her shenanigans at I3. 

And.... Inquisitor can get his 3 dice every turn, but he'll just not be doing force mods. 

But an extra red die is probably better than a soft focus anyway. 

Mr. Fridays is 58 points plus 12 for Supernatural. 

I was referring to the I3 generic.

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17 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

And can he tell us what the definition of an ace was in 1:0? And what it is now in 2.0?

Because I know who couldn't...

“The world is not in your books and maps. It’s out there.”

Find the sequel to Nova Squadron and you will have your definition. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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