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The probability gun thing was an interesting exercise, but the raw calculation isn't very important, but mostly the idea of risk assessment.

That problem is more interesting if I ask you how much $ are you willing to wager to perform that juggling gun shot thing (no coercion).

Because it was said earlier that people misgauge "calculated risk" a lot - like, taking a 70% chance to do a kill is a calculated risk you should probably repeat in most situations.

Taking the 'calculated risk' to initiative kill something at 15% is less so... unless you're already losing.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

FCS seems pretty bad in 2.0, but people still take it fairly often: why? Just holdover from 1.0?

Probably. It was stapled onto so many ships in 1.0, and it's still cheap enough that most people don't actually think about it. I've heard people call it essentially 1.0 predator, but it's not. It's 1.0 predator that costs an action probably half the time. 

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It's also worth considering what ships are equipping FCS in the first place - lots of ships that are in a position to take it are already at a disadvantage for other reasons. Basically, the ships that benefit from choosing Advanced Sensors, Trajectory Simulator or Collision Detector instead are doing the things that win you the game (repositional actions at high Initiative, unavoidable bomb damage, ignoring core game rules). Ships that "prefer" choosing FCS are just looking for a slight action advantage while using one of the more difficult to use actions (Lock).

On that point, is the Lock action functionality bad enough that it just needs a blanket fix? Or is it being crap for 95% of pilots fine?

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1 hour ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

FCS seems pretty bad in 2.0, but people still take it fairly often: why? Just holdover from 1.0?

Is it that bad? It's pretty awful if you're using it as a worse focus action, yeah, but a control+F through PAX shows mostly Vaders (locking anyways) and Gunboats (locking anyways), a few E-Wings (maybe wrong? not sure), and a couple Defenders and a Whisper (probably wrong there).

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4 minutes ago, svelok said:

Is it that bad? It's pretty awful if you're using it as a worse focus action, yeah, but a control+F through PAX shows mostly Vaders (locking anyways) and Gunboats (locking anyways), a few E-Wings (maybe wrong? not sure), and a couple Defenders and a Whisper (probably wrong there).

Whisper: 100% wrong. Whisper can't lock.

E-wings: almost assuredly wrong. You get locks for days with that ship- why would you pay to conserve them?

Defenders: Wrong on the high inits, could be good on the Deltas. The problem is that the Defender kinda sucks.

Vader/gunboats: IGuess.png

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5 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Question: if the Lock action were changed to have no range restriction, what fix(es) would be needed to make the game not suck? Just a points increase on the good ordnance?

There would need to be a pretty stiff increase on any ship that had the lock action.  It would be a huge advantage.

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1 hour ago, Transmogrifier said:

Question: if the Lock action were changed to have no range restriction, what fix(es) would be needed to make the game not suck? Just a points increase on the good ordnance?

 

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

There would need to be a pretty stiff increase on any ship that had the lock action.  It would be a huge advantage.

This would allow stuff like 4 Crack T-70 to come into the first engage double modded, and ready to **** people. If this was the case, i'd immediately run 4 SF or 5 Kihraxz or the like.

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1 hour ago, Transmogrifier said:

Question: if the Lock action were changed to have no range restriction, what fix(es) would be needed to make the game not suck? Just a points increase on the good ordnance?

 

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

There would need to be a pretty stiff increase on any ship that had the lock action.  It would be a huge advantage.

I would MUCH rather see this implemented as old long range scanners (can't lock except at range 3+).  That being said, the number of ships without lock is pretty low:

Rebel: None

Empire: Fighter, Striker

Scum: Escape Craft (who cares), Mining TIE

Resistance: None

First Order: None

 

Empire has things like howlrunner to make up for no Lock, but that being said if I had an iron fist rule over X-Wing I'd implement that change and make strikers cheaper.

 

Funny how much the target lock mechanic stands out as archaic now that everything else is cleaned up!

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Also, do you think this change would be enough to drive players towards higher ship counts (where you simultaneously gain more of a benefit from 'free' locks and less of an alpha strike risk)? Or is the 3 ship inertia going to be too strong regardless of what is wise/good?

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24 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Out of curiosity, why do you think the LRS limitation makes it that much better? To me, taking locks at range 1-3 for most ships entails enough opportunity cost to make it pretty unoffensive.

I don't have a balance reason, I think it's cool and interesting.

22 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Also, do you think this change would be enough to drive players towards higher ship counts (where you simultaneously gain more of a benefit from 'free' locks and less of an alpha strike risk)? Or is the 3 ship inertia going to be too strong regardless of what is wise/good?

I don't know.  You'd have to make Proton Torps cost something that starts with a 2 (see E-Wings) for any chance like that be possible, and Homing Missiles also a billion points.

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53 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Empire: Fighter, Striker

 

+ Lambda, Reaper, Interceptor, Phantom.

Empire has 8 that can lock, 6 that can't. That's quite a few.

I'd wager that Whisper with FCS had Krennic on board.

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1 minute ago, Cuz05 said:

+ Lambda, Reaper, Interceptor, Phantom.

 Empire has 8 that can lock, 6 that can't. That's quite a few.

I'd wager that Whisper with FCS had Krennic on board.

Oh, duh, I totally forgot the Reaper didn't have Lock.

For the others, this is going to sound more direct than I mean (really don't mean to start a format fight), but extended is pretty much a meme and I don't care.  More surprisingly, no one else seems to care either.  I expected ripping off the bandaid to a real format to be more painful, but at least locally no one even bothers with extended stuff and that's what I've been hearing from pretty much everyone.  "Man I really want to go to that system open, but I don't want to put up with Extended".  

Those ships (especially Lambda, Interceptor) will probably come back sooner though since they're popular + thematic, so they will be relevant soonish™, maybe?

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I still phrased that badly, sorry.  

 

What I mean to say is - thanks for catching the Reaper.  For everything else, Extended ships are basically new ships that will maybe come back later.  More of a peek at potential future stuff than something to count now, if that makes sense.

 

Empire has 3 ships that can't lock and one that can.  There's 7 others that might come later that can lock, and 3 that can't, but who knows which we'll see and when.

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On 12/24/2018 at 4:27 PM, Tlfj200 said:

No - this is super wrong.

That's what I was assuming, since those bombers tended to kill at most one of my 6 ships before dying. 

It feels like a strange ship- With the 270 degree coverage, it should be wanting to run away from fights and kite, but it's not nearly fast enough to do so. 

It ends up being most successful when it rushes into swarms and starts trajectory simulating, or if it's Finch, dropping bombs. 

My issue is when it does that, the best course of action is to leave and come back in a couple turns, and that's boring. 

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1 hour ago, Brunas said:

at least locally no one even bothers with extended stuff and that's what I've been hearing from pretty much everyone.  "Man I really want to go to that system open, but I don't want to put up with Extended".  

exact opposite here (southern Arizona). Everyone is hyped for the Phoenix System Open and when I do Hyperspace-format events, my attendance falls by half. 

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11 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

exact opposite here (southern Arizona). Everyone is hyped for the Phoenix System Open and when I do Hyperspace-format events, my attendance falls by half. 

Weird. I assume a local system open is the difference? I guess that makes sense. Curious what it's like after January!

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55 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Weird. I assume a local system open is the difference? I guess that makes sense. Curious what it's like after January!

I believe there's a direct correlation between the people that say they only want extended, and the amount of punishers, phantoms, and hawks in their lists. 

 

Honorary shout out to the other half the scum faction thats due for a points increase in January but only avaliable in extended.

Edited by SnooSnarry

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6 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Whisper: 100% wrong. Whisper can't lock.

E-wings: almost assuredly wrong. You get locks for days with that ship- why would you pay to conserve them?

Defenders: Wrong on the high inits, could be good on the Deltas. The problem is that the Defender kinda sucks.

Vader/gunboats: IGuess.png

Pretty sure the whisper had Krennic, who does allow you to lock.

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59 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

I believe there's a direct correlation between the people that say they only want extended, and the amount of punishers, phantoms, and hawks in their lists. 

 

Honorary shout out to the other half the scum faction thats due for a points increase in January but only avaliable in extended.

Look, just give me my Interceptor, Lambda, and Bomber and i'll be quiet.

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3 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

So they paid 8 points to be ******. They do know Coldet, Vader, and Sloane exist, right?

I didn’t say it was good, just pointing out since it wasn’t a krayt cheese list, logically there had to be a reason for Fcs to be on Whisper.

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