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Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast

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37 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Too late.

I'm not trapped in here with the forums. They're trapped in here with me. 

To celebrate I suggest we dedicate these next 50 pages to discussing why 5+ ship lists are fun, actually super good, not that hard to use, rewarding, and worthy of more hype/interest and less intimidation.

Its time for the higher ship count lists marketing campaign to begin in full.

Edited by Boom Owl

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5 hours ago, MrHedgehogMan said:

Or Kanan Jarrus means you can keep boosting and open up your dial, although 3 points bid probably won't be enough.

Kanan isn’t Hyperspace legal. It’s easily the best option. Got a good 30-40 games with the Falcon and Kanan/Jyn is the best combo. R2-D2 is best Hyperspace Crew for it, but question is what’s the best second crew of Gunner option for it.

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11 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

To celebrate I suggest we dedicate these next 50 pages to discussing why 5+ ship lists are fun, actually super good, not that hard to use, rewarding, and worthy of more hype/interest and less intimidation.

Its time for the higher ship count lists marketing campaign to begin in full.

I agree.

I'm just waiting for Republic. V-19 Torrent swarms are going to be awesome. 

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1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Very cool!

 

Also, I pity the kylo with a 2 turned dialed in hiding in the corner of the board like that.  That's what the 5 forward no consequences is for! (It's just an example for explanation of course, just made me giggle).

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4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

To celebrate I suggest we dedicate these next 50 pages to discussing why 5+ ship lists are fun, actually super good, not that hard to use, rewarding, and worthy of more hype/interest and less intimidation.

Its time for the higher ship count lists marketing campaign to begin in full.

I agree.

Lists:

  • Empire
    • 5 Strikers/Interceptors
    • Sloane swarm with a carrier (Whisper/Lambda/Reaper) plus a combination of 4 Strikers and Interceptors
    • 7 TIEs (Howl + Iden + 5)
    • 6 named TIEs
    • 5 Strikers/Interceptors + Wampa
    • ...
  • Rebel:
    • uhm... something with Z95s?
    • ...
  • Scum:
    • Drea swarm variations: Drea+Dorsal, 2-3 Z95s, 2-3 Gunrunners, 0-1 Escapecraft
    • ...
  • Resistance:
    • 5 RZ-2 A-Wings
    • 4 RZ-2 A-Wings + 1 T70
    • ...
  • First Order:
    • no clue...

 

The problem is that they are less forgiving and give more opportunities to make mistakes. Not only is a 3 ship list more forgiving, but losing a ship is everytime a sad occurence and swarms will lose them. That's an inherent psychological cost.

On top of that, I think it is hard to use in the sense that it needs some practice. Moving 7 TIEs requires a planned opening. My Awings are (should...) always be doing one of 3 openings. The moving in a box requires practice, too. It's not hard by itself, but it gives you plenty opportunity to make mistakes. Which again goes into the point that a swarm is less forgiving. Moving in a looser "formation" again allows you to blunder more because you can easily trade shots without having all guns on the same target.

On the flip side though, losing a ship is not an immediate loss. E.g. last sunday, I played 2/4 games with just 4 of 5 ships from the beginning. Sure, that was bad, but it was not an instant loss either. Ships in swarms are a disposable ressource, and you have to spend them in some form, as you'll spend e.g. proton torpedoes.

That is a difference in mind set, and maybe the most important difference to 3 ship lists.

e: not to speak of the maneuver choice. Choosing 5 simply takes more effort than 3, however easy it is to an individual player.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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5 hours ago, Quack Shot said:

Kanan isn’t Hyperspace legal. It’s easily the best option. Got a good 30-40 games with the Falcon and Kanan/Jyn is the best combo. R2-D2 is best Hyperspace Crew for it, but question is what’s the best second crew of Gunner option for it.

Ah my bad, I didn't know you guys were talking about Hyperspace. What about Hot Shot Gunner?

Serves me right for trying to be clever. I should just go back to my trench run list.

Edited by MrHedgehogMan

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6 hours ago, Brunas said:

Very cool!

 

Also, I pity the kylo with a 2 turned dialed in hiding in the corner of the board like that.  That's what the 5 forward no consequences is for! (It's just an example for explanation of course, just made me giggle).

Hmm... maybe I wasn't clear.  That wasn't a map of 2-turn options, that was a map of places Kylo can go with a variety of different maneuvers where he may be able to keep attacking. The 5-forward is definitely the better part of valor.

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4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:
  • Scum:
    • Drea swarm variations: Drea+Dorsal, 2-3 Z95s, 2-3 Gunrunners, 0-1 Escapecraft
  • First Order:
    • no clue…

I play 5 Scum toolbox other than Drea Swarm and I find it extremally powerful (top8 Polish SoS with Talonbane, Quinn Jast, Palob, Unkar L3-37). Not sure what will be after the points change, but i think still potent (I might replace Palob with something else)

As for First Order:

Fully loaded Quickdraw + 4x PS2 TIEsf (no gunners tho) = 30 HP behind 2 greens all with 2 arc. On paper this looks promising.

 

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13 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I’m pretty sure Captain Seevor and four+ ships that fire after him is a starting point in hyperspace. I think he is the only non-reaper Jam option?

In Hyperspace options are somehow limited in terms of cheap generics in Scum (only TIE Fighters ans Escape crafts, Fangs aren't so cheap). Aces /big bases looks more promising (Fangs, Falcons, Firesprays). So Seevor or other TIEs might be taken as blokers/fillers rather than part of something bigger.

In Extended on the other side Scum has lot of nice toolbox options to build super annoying and capable squad of 5+ ships even not based on Drea (Quads, TIEs, Z95, Escape Pods, HWKs, Khiraxes etc)

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4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Lists:

  • Empire
    • 5 Strikers/Interceptors
    • Sloane swarm with a carrier (Whisper/Lambda/Reaper) plus a combination of 4 Strikers and Interceptors
    • 7 TIEs (Howl + Iden + 5)
    • 6 named TIEs
    • 5 Strikers/Interceptors + Wampa
    • ...
  • Rebel:
    • uhm... something with Z95s?
    • ...
  • Scum:
    • Drea swarm variations: Drea+Dorsal, 2-3 Z95s, 2-3 Gunrunners, 0-1 Escapecraft
    • ...
  • Resistance:
    • 5 RZ-2 A-Wings
    • 4 RZ-2 A-Wings + 1 T70
    • ...
  • First Order:
    • no clue...

I think the tendency to find one ship + load-out and mash copy/paste until you have 200 points worth is a common instinct, but mostly leads players to the wrong choices. Some of the most successful high ship count builds so far have been in Scum, using mixed builds with a broader set of capabilities. The mix also allows you to build ships to more optimal points levels instead of trying to shoehorn builds to hit particular key values (50/40/33). Also not flying in block formations. Everyone needs to stop with that.

Edited by Transmogrifier

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21 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

In Extended on the other side Scum has lot of nice toolbox options to build super annoying and capable squad of 5+ ships even not based on Drea (Quads, TIEs, Z95, Escape Pods, HWKs, Khiraxes etc)

When I take Palob, people just lock me instead. And besides, sometimes Phantoms stack focus and evade, and Palob can only steal one. It's just not fair, what am I to do?

But now, I can have Kavil with Han gunner, for double modded I5 torps; and Swarm Tactics Seevor up to I5, to break enemy locks or token stacks; and bring two tugboats, to toss enemy ships onto rocks anyways! Thanks, FFG!

Edited by svelok

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4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I agree.

Lists:

  • Empire
    • 5 Strikers/Interceptors
    • Sloane swarm with a carrier (Whisper/Lambda/Reaper) plus a combination of 4 Strikers and Interceptors
    • 7 TIEs (Howl + Iden + 5)
    • 6 named TIEs
    • 5 Strikers/Interceptors + Wampa
    • ...
  • Rebel:
    • uhm... something with Z95s?
    • ...
  • Scum:
    • Drea swarm variations: Drea+Dorsal, 2-3 Z95s, 2-3 Gunrunners, 0-1 Escapecraft
    • ...
  • Resistance:
    • 5 RZ-2 A-Wings
    • 4 RZ-2 A-Wings + 1 T70
    • ...
  • First Order:
    • no clue...

 

The problem is that they are less forgiving and give more opportunities to make mistakes. Not only is a 3 ship list more forgiving, but losing a ship is everytime a sad occurence and swarms will lose them. That's an inherent psychological cost.

On top of that, I think it is hard to use in the sense that it needs some practice. Moving 7 TIEs requires a planned opening. My Awings are (should...) always be doing one of 3 openings. The moving in a box requires practice, too. It's not hard by itself, but it gives you plenty opportunity to make mistakes. Which again goes into the point that a swarm is less forgiving. Moving in a looser "formation" again allows you to blunder more because you can easily trade shots without having all guns on the same target.

On the flip side though, losing a ship is not an immediate loss. E.g. last sunday, I played 2/4 games with just 4 of 5 ships from the beginning. Sure, that was bad, but it was not an instant loss either. Ships in swarms are a disposable ressource, and you have to spend them in some form, as you'll spend e.g. proton torpedoes.

That is a difference in mind set, and maybe the most important difference to 3 ship lists.

e: not to speak of the maneuver choice. Choosing 5 simply takes more effort than 3, however easy it is to an individual player.

4 Porgs plus Chewy is probably going to be strong

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2 minutes ago, svelok said:

When I take Palob, people just lock me instead. And besides, sometimes Phantoms stack focus and evade, and Palob can only steal one. It's just not fair, what am I to do?

But now, I can have Kavil with Han gunner, for double modded I5 torps; and Swarm Tactics Seevor up to I5, to break enemy locks or token stacks; and bring two tugboats, to toss enemy ships onto rocks anyways! Thanks, FFG!

Sarcasm unecessary. All those things will go up in points within 2 weeks or so.

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20 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I think the tendency to find one ship + load-out and mash copy/paste until you have 200 points worth is a common instinct, but mostly leads players to the wrong choices. Some of the most successful high ship count builds so far have been in Scum, using mixed builds with a broader set of capabilities. The mix also allows you to build ships to more optimal points levels instead of trying to shoehorn builds to hit particular key values (50/40/33). Also not flying in block formations. Everyone needs to stop with that.

I agree, but that lands at 4 ships with the exception of the Drea swarm. Most others are either same ships or not as many. A wild mix of Initiative and dials is harder to play. As for the block formation... I don't know, it depends on the matchup? It's a tool, but shouldn't be the only tool.

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Just to broaden the topic a little bit. Ace + Mini Swarm is a great way to get into the mindset of running more ships. 

Fenn + Palob + 2x Jumper + Lando 

Fenn + 5 Miner Ties

Whisper/Soontir + 4 Strikers

Luke + 5-6 Z95s

Vader + 3 Strikers + Academy

Redline + 6 Ties

Poe R4 + 4 A-Wings

Crack Draw + 4 Crack/Optic Omegas

Its super entertaining and lets you continue to use the Aces with cool "words" and a group of ships you can be more aggressive with and worry less about losing as you set up traps for your opponents Ships that have Words. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Hmm... maybe I wasn't clear.  That wasn't a map of 2-turn options, that was a map of places Kylo can go with a variety of different maneuvers where he may be able to keep attacking. The 5-forward is definitely the better part of valor.

Oh, I misunderstood!  I"m pretty sure looking at the picture it should have been clear, just seeing Kylo's base got in my head, haha.

18 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

Sarcasm unecessary. All those things will go up in points within 2 weeks or so.

God I hope it's like 2 weeks.  January could be January 31st :(  Or on FFG time, like February, haha.

 

Unrelated to all of this, Hearthstone is getting a balance update on like a day's notice: https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/22817529/

Quote

Wild Growth – Will cost 3 mana. (Up from 2)

Nourish – Will cost 6 mana. (Up from 5)

Level Up! – Will cost 6 mana. (Up from 5)

Saronite Chain Gang – Now reads: Taunt. Battlecry: Summon another Saronite Chain Gang.

Leeching Poison – Will cost 1 mana. (Down from 2). Now reads: Give your weapon Lifesteal this turn.

3 of these are only cost changes, and 2 are the equivalent of errata.  That's going to have such a massive impact on the game with an even larger cardpool than X-Wing.  Makes me wonder how even a few small point changes could dramatically change the X-Wing balance.

 

Some examples:

If Proton torps go way up in price, but Palob doesn't change much, Palob gets even better than he is now!

If i5s get "brought into line" but Kylo/Supernatural doesn't change, hope you brought a big bid or a very maneuverable i6!

If fat turrets go way down, but everything else that's good now goes up, are we playing fat turret wing?

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1 hour ago, Crit Happens said:

QD and 4 FOs. You can even get 4 named FOs, and when they aren't the obvious target, they do serious work.

4FOQD (200)
"Quickdraw" — TIE/SF Fighter	45
Crack Shot	1
Special Forces Gunner	10
Fire-Control System	3
Ship Total: 59
Half Points: 30 Threshold: 3
 	
"Null" — TIE/FO Fighter	31
Squad Leader	4
Ship Total: 35
Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2
 	
Omega Squadron Ace — TIE/FO Fighter	31
Fanatical	2
Advanced Optics	4
Ship Total: 37
Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2
 	
Omega Squadron Ace — TIE/FO Fighter	31
Fanatical	2
Advanced Optics	4
Ship Total: 37
Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2
 	
Epsilon Squadron Cadet — TIE/FO Fighter	28
Advanced Optics	4
Ship Total: 32
Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

I7/I0 coordinate is stong; who needs a bid?

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16 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Oh, I misunderstood!  I"m pretty sure looking at the picture it should have been clear, just seeing Kylo's base got in my head, haha.

I added a clarification to the article.  

I should have added the "TLDR, Kylo can go anywhere, but most if those places suck."  

The illustrated position was bad for Kylo, but the game against Kylo is trying to push for as many of those positions as possible while minimizing the pens where he can attack with 7 different dial positions from 32 different final positions (sort of exaggerating, but not by a lot).

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Just now, Biophysical said:

I added a clarification to the article.  

I should have added the "TLDR, Kylo can go anywhere, but most if those places suck."  

The illustrated position was bad for Kylo, but the game against Kylo is trying to push for as many of those positions as possible while minimizing the pens where he can attack with 7 different dial positions from 32 different final positions (sort of exaggerating, but not by a lot).

I understand the premise, but sticking I. Formation like that means the kylo side is easier, generally, not harder.

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2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I added a clarification to the article.  

I should have added the "TLDR, Kylo can go anywhere, but most if those places suck."  

The illustrated position was bad for Kylo, but the game against Kylo is trying to push for as many of those positions as possible while minimizing the pens where he can attack with 7 different dial positions from 32 different final positions (sort of exaggerating, but not by a lot).

Yep, and I don't know how you explain how to play against aces to new players...

"well they're probably bad so they'll trade shots, but you need to punish both trading shots and not trading shots in case they aren't bad, and they have more than one ace... which one do you think is going to make the worst decision this turn?"

 

lol

Edited by Brunas

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