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Parakitor

TIE strikers at Store Championships [picture heavy]

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22 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Well, despite not seeing this message until just now, I think I did almost everything right. I didn't bunch up, I attacked Nym first, and Nym only got one Harpoon Missile off. That said, I got tabled. Managed to get Nym down to 1 or 2 hull left, and Ezra down to 1 hull. I started off strong, but somewhere along the way I choked. A Blinded Pilot on Vizier when he was range 1 of Ezra didn't help. It was a really fun match, and I flew my best, but I just needed a little more luck. Here's the link to the log file if you want to view it. If you see any tactical errors, shout it out so I can continue to learn.

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/download_vlog?match_id=7825

I'm not sure (being the neolithic ignorant that I am) what reads .vlog files.....

This is  nightmarey squad - masses of splash damage, stress and snap shots, 2-dice attacks which turn off lightweight frame, you name it.

I certainly don't see an obvious path to victory.

On 5/24/2018 at 1:54 PM, Vandenberg said:

5 strikers with 5 imperial dial covers is ?

 

22 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Tempting, but with 2.0 coming out, I'll buy my 5th Striker in the new expansion pack, whenever that's released.

A lot of expansions are going cheap at the moment, if you look around. I've grabbed a couple of things because I'm not sure when they'll be back.

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On 5/23/2018 at 9:55 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Love the First Order Striker.

Also love the fact that a lego pilot can hang on to the movement stick. That looks awesome.... Must have some TIE pilot minifigs somewhere!

Hehe thanks, it was sabacc in my First order Quickdraw, Vessary, sabacc squad that i took to the UK SOS last year :)

On 5/21/2018 at 10:27 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Soo......It looks like the striker swarm is going to need some serious thought to make work.

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Changes:

  • Strikers are still agility 2. But with Lightweight Frame supposedly gone, they're stuck and staying at agility 2. That means we now have, essentially, the durability of a Z-95, combining a fragile hull more like the TIE/ln or TIE/in with the lack of green dice of the TIE/sa.
    • 4 hits with lousy green dice is still arguably better than 3 hits with more green dice, because it's impossible for a bad roll to see you one-hit-killed by a 'normal' 3 dice attack (barring silly critical hits).
    • This does significantly reduce your chances of living through a 4-dice shot.
  • We don't get any of the lovely new linked actions. Not that a TIE striker would really want them, because we retain the 1.0 TIE/sk's sensitivity to stress.
  • The spoiled pilot, "Planetary Sentinel" is Initiative 1, and has the artwork of the Scarif Defender. Therefore, assume the Imperial Trainee and Scarif Defender have both been merged into this guy. We might have the Black Squadron Scout as a pilot with the talent slot, but unless they're a lot, lot cheaper than their current incarnation, you won't get the 5-ship swarm (or 4-and-support-craft) of them that makes generic strikers really stand out, especially if you buy anything to go in said talent slot.
  • Adaptive Ailerons is now baked in. The dial has been marginally changed (taking the koiogran turn down to speed 1) because apparently a lot of people flew them without the title. (Who the heck did that?)
    • This might make handling them in close proximity to enemy ships marginally more awkward because you can't now bump with your aileron move then loop behind them with your 'proper' manoeuvre - a speed 1 move won't clear a normal base if either it's at all at an angle or either your or their movement template nubs clip the other ship's base.  Fortunately, the speed 2 segnors are still fast enough to do clear an enemy.
    • Speed 1 koiograns will make it easier to turn in pursuit of an enemy - because that means an effective speed 3 not speed 4, which will mean you can get back into your starting position facing the other way in one turn, and hopefully have less chance of dropping out of range of a retreating enemy.
  • Apparently we now have the devices slot (a.k.a bomb slot). Honestly I'm not too bothered about this. I know people used to rant and rave that "the striker should have bombs" because it mentions them in a cross-sections book, but I'm not convinced in game it makes much difference; using bombs when you have a swarm of fragile ships often hurts you as much as the enemy. We'll have to wait and see what bombs exist and how much they cost, though. Assuming drop-on-reveal-your-dial is still a thing (since it's claimed action-bombs are gone), then Adaptive Ailerons should give us an equivalent of the TIE/sa's 'Nimble Bomber' rule, giving us a chance to shift positions of bombs subtly.
    • Depending on cost, it might work well. The weak point of the striker has always been when overflying an enemy and needing to turn around; being able to bin off a couple of mines/seismic charges/whatever to give your opponent something to worry about whilst you get your nose around would be quite useful.
  • We will need to wait to see points costs.
    • Since prices have essentially doubled, the assumption is that the PS1 Imperial Trainee at 17 points should imply a PS1 Planetary Sentinel at 34 points.
    • Without Lightweight Frame to spend points on, I see two possibilities:
      • We have 6 points-per-ship to spend on upgrades in a 5-ship swarm. Without Lightweight Frame, this is either going to be a bomb of some kind (might as well use our new slot) or some attempt at a durability upgrade (are hull upgrade or stealth device still a thing?)
      • Literally a single (new) point reduction in the price of the ship would give you the option of a 6-ship swarm. Given a general reduction in dice modifiers, though, is FFG really likely to let us play with 6 3-dice attack ships at once?

I agree with a lot of this. Not massively excited about the bomb slot and I feel my beloved strikers are going to be a lot squishier without LWF. I'm sure we'll find a way to make them work again though, swarms look like they could be great again in 2nd ed!

Edited by TyrantLord73

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On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 10:55 PM, TyrantLord73 said:

Not massively excited about the bomb slot

We'll have to wait and see. It'll largely depend on the cost of the bombs...and their effects. I heard a rumour about seismic charges being essentially a droppable area-effect seismic torpedo. That could be "fun", if true, especially against other swarms or dirt-huggers like Han, Blackout or Dash Rendar.

On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 10:55 PM, TyrantLord73 said:

I feel my beloved strikers are going to be a lot squishier without LWF

One thing I have registered in my last few games is just how often Lightweight Frame doesn't trigger. Range 3 primary attacks, 2 dice primary attacks, obstructed shots.... Don't get me wrong, I'll be sorry to see it go, but it may not be as bad as I think, especially if the number of 4-dice-with-rerolls-and-focus-to-hit attacks are dramatically reined in.

 

The more I play with the strikers, the more I become convinced that one of a striker's real strengths is that incredibly flexible red dial.  I find myself wanting to try a pack of 4 black squadron scouts with wingman, or 4 Trainees with Captain Yorr.

 

Also - last night's game: I don't like Fenn Rau.

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So...... Starviper MkII.

Flying Adaptive Aileron Strikers, it's been quite a while since I've had what can best be described as 'manoeuvre dial envy'.  Those things are insane - I got to watch a second game with them afterwards, and watching them spin on the spot, or rotate around other ships, made my jaw drop. The fact that Guri (hereafter officially rechristened "pinwheeling cybernetic ninja")can do this whilst she still picks up free tokens is just the icing on the cake.

Add in 'true' agility 3, autothrusters and a dial with a non-red version of every speed 1 manoeuvre (something near enough unique to the viper) and it's truly amazing to watch. And, as I and my opponent can both agree, brain-melting to try and predict. The pinwheeling cybernetic ninja took a PS0 critical...meaning she had to move, then choose a barrel roll, then allow for all 5 strikers moving, then my opponent had to try to figure out where would therefore be a safe spot for him to park Thweek and Fenn Rau with their moves...whilst I'm trying to figure out the same and stop it.

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Right....so.

Next week is supposedly going to be a major heavy swarm-off once a friend at the LGS gets many, many copies of Saw's Renegades.

In the Green (Lasers) Corner:

  • Scarif Defender x 5
    • Adaptive Ailerons
    • Lightweight Frame

In the Red (Lasers) Corner:

  • Rookie Pilot x 5
    • Renegade Refit
    • Flight Assist Astromech
    • Servomotor S-Foils
    • Integrated Astromech

Any suggestions or advice for this fight? I'm not entirely used to being on the 'right end' of the PS stick.

  • I cannot afford to engage at range 3, where we get the same green dice but he has the edge of shields
  • With 5 warm bodies on the board and my high minimum speed, blocking is a real risk. I'm not sure I can risk going for range 1.
  • 5 Strikers concentrating fire should kill an integrated astromech T-65 at range 2. However, 4 X-wings concentrating fire at range 2 afterwards will probably kill a TIE/sk. Range 1 bonus dice are probably not enough to get me 2 kills (12 uncancelled damage!) so preserving my combat power is probably key.
  • X-wings with closed S-foils are still a threat due to the way lightweight frame works.
Edited by Magnus Grendel

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My gut tells me that you need to "circle your quarry" as it were. If you fly at them using oblique angles, you should be able to avoid the blocks. Liberal use of "Aileron away - turn 1 in" seems good.

Your Adaptive Ailerons will be supremely useful for dodging their arcs. Just like TIE phantoms of old, always dial in a maneuver that can double as an escape path.

Barrel Rolls will be your friend. You will have full knowledge of whether you can dodge arcs or not, and can probably close to range 1 out of arc in some situations.

Remember that a blocked TIE striker DOES NOT equal a dead TIE striker. If one gets blocked, and your opponent is hoping to focus fire, then you've just put him in an interesting situation: does he shoot at the blocked striker with 4 out of his 5 ships, or does he pick a different ship to shoot with all 5 X-wings even though the target has a focus token?

Your observation about S-foils interacting with Lightweight Frame does concern me, because it makes the X-wings into even better blockers, with no appreciable loss in firepower, except that a lucky roll of all hits vs. all misses will only land 2 damage instead of 3, which could put him behind. It's an interesting matchup to be sure.

 

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11 hours ago, Parakitor said:

My gut tells me that you need to "circle your quarry" as it were. If you fly at them using oblique angles, you should be able to avoid the blocks. Liberal use of "Aileron away - turn 1 in" seems good.

  • This. I definitely cannot afford to joust, so I need to come in from multiple angles.
  • Fortunately, for once I'm on the right end of the PS stick - at PS3 to the Rookie's PS2.
  • Nominally, breaking the fight up into 2 or 3 smaller fights should favour me. I have defences dependent on green dice and tokens which refresh every turn, he has defences based on shield tokens which stay gone once I take them off. Whilst 5-on-5 is a wash or even in his favour, 5 x 1-on-1 should be in mine (which is unlikely, but a 3 vs 3 and a 2 vs 2, for example, is doable). Therefore, follow standard antiswarm doctrine; deploy in the opposite corner, head off in both directions, and try and break the formation up on the obstacles.
11 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Your Adaptive Ailerons will be supremely useful for dodging their arcs. Just like TIE phantoms of old, always dial in a maneuver that can double as an escape path.

Yeah. I really need to get my 'flying as aces' brain in gear, which is something I've rarely done. If given a choice of 'both shoot' or 'neither shoot', the latter is probably my better option.

11 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Barrel Rolls will be your friend. You will have full knowledge of whether you can dodge arcs or not, and can probably close to range 1 out of arc in some situations.

Definitely. I think that's a real reason I rarely use Barrel Roll except to avoid rock/face interaction the following turn; with PS3 strikers against 'normal' opponents, you're guessing whether the move will matter but you know you'll give up your token to do it. With only PS2 enemies on the board, the Scarif Boys finally get to pretend they're Soontir Fel for the day.

11 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Your observation about S-foils interacting with Lightweight Frame does concern me, because it makes the X-wings into even better blockers, with no appreciable loss in firepower, except that a lucky roll of all hits vs. all misses will only land 2 damage instead of 3, which could put him behind. It's an interesting matchup to be sure.

It also means that whilst I can outmanoeuvre him within 'tactical range' (because he can't use Flight Assist Astromech if he has a shot after his manoeuvre, and will be hesitant to boost or barrel roll as an action since it costs him his tokens, whilst an aileron move - even if it collides with a ship- doesn't cost me my action), I'm actually slower than him by some margin at 'strategic range' because on the first couple of rounds he can close S-Foils and do speed 4 straight/speed 3 turn + free barrel roll + action boost - giving him a higher top speed than the striker.

That does mean splitting up my squad is risky, since I can't really run away from him effectively. Still, I think I have to take the risk to try and avoid just a 5 vs 5 head-on pass. The most important thing is probably not to get too aggressive in the opening pass. Once a ship or two is damaged such that I might be able to get a PS-kill, then everyone's fair game.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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I've bought and gotten one game in with The Striker Who Ate All The Pies.

It's....a really nice ship, to be honest. Give it Advanced Ailerons and Lightweight Frame, and it's not far short of a striker itself in manourability.

Jam was nice, but really needed ISB slicer to really pull its weight. Death Troopers felt a bit irrelevant as it tended to drawn fire in preference to 3-green-dice strikers anyway.

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Game night kit with the strikers.

I must say, I was very impressed that the Heavy Swarm appears to be gaining a bit of traction at our local store...in the game night kit - and all in the top half of the board - we had:

  • 5 x Scarif Defenders (Ailerons, Lightweight)
  • 5 x Rookie Pilots (Refit, Flight Assist, Integrated, Servomotor)
  • 5 x Partisan Renegade (Collision Detector, Refit, Courier Droid , one with "Chopper")*
  • 4 x Epsilon Squadron Pilot, Epsilon Ace (Comm Relay), Epsilon Leader (Primed Thrusters)

 

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* This squad I didn't get to play, but I can confirm that 5 U-wings is one heck of a sight to see on the board! It's nice that Saw's Renegades has given the Rebels two complementary heavy swarmers, not just one, giving you a bit of choice to your squad.

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5 Crack Shot/Optics Omega Squadron Pilots isn't a true 'heavy swarm', because you've only a 2-dice primary - crack shot covers a multitude of sins but it is one use - but nevertheless it is a thing I'd hate to find myself facing with the strikers:

  • Higher Pilot Skill (the Scarif Defender otherwise has the best PS of any heavy swarmer, joint with Veteran Instincts Cavern Angels Zealots)
  • 2-dice primary weapons (which largely ignore Lightweight Frame)
  • Better tolerance to critical hits
  • The ever-awesome Crack Shot
  • The ability to have focus/evade or focus/lock for the initial swarm engagement.
  • The ability to pull segnor's loops and still have tokens half the time, negating the edge of a striker's red dial
Edited by Magnus Grendel

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I finally picked up my TIE Reaper!

Both games were against the following squad:
4x Cavern Angel Zealots (Crack Shot, Flight Assist Astromech, Integrated Astromech, Renegade Refit, Servomotor S-foils)
AP-5 (Inspiring Recruit)

For the first game, I flew:
Major Vermeil (Director Krennic, ISB Slicers, Lightweight Frame, Advanced Ailerons)
Duchess (Veteran Instincts, Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame)
2x Imperial Trainee (Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame)

42385627704_d4dc530dd9_c.jpg

We did okay, but Duchess got shot. She's not supposed to, I flew her too aggressively. I think we destroyed 2 X-wings before we were defeated. He had initiative.

I decided I needed more ships. AP-5's coordinate looked helpful, so I ended up with:

Scarif Base Pilot (Tactical Officer, Advanced Ailerons)
4x Imperial Trainee (Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame)

I got to choose initiative. I debated a lot. I ended up giving it to him, realizing that I could take advantage of my Ailerons.

28234989427_1e9efb6b2e_c.jpg

Yeah, this feels more like it. Coordinate was a LOT of fun. Unfortunately, I didn't "circle the wagons" as I had suggested to @Magnus Grendel. Instead, I did this:

42385627744_c04a18f5cc_c.jpg

Head to head when your opponent has initiative the next round...it wasn't pretty. First, my Reaper wasn't in position to fire. Then next round, we got all sorts of blocked, and I eventually S-looped my TIE Reaper off the table. Ouch. It was readily apparent that I have not flown on the table much recently. I am in a serious losing streak, but I'm excited to put all these guys on the table more. I really like this 5-ship iteration quite a lot. Next time, I'll take initiative if I have the chance.

My opponent suggested I try replacing Duchess in my first list with "Pure Sabacc." Here's what I came up with if I feel brave enough to fly only 4 ships:

Major Vermeil (Crack Shot, Director Krennic, Tactical Officer, Lightweight Frame, Advanced Ailerons)
"Pure Sabacc" (Crack Shot, Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame)
2x Imperial Trainee (Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame)

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I'm not fully convinced by tactical officer on board the Tie Reaper. Intelligence agent seems better to block thanks to the adaptive ailerons.

Very nice picture: 5x ships for each side, so much fun ! :)

My old rebel list BBXXZ look weak now when I see 4x X-Wing with AP-5...

 

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11 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Scarif Base Pilot (Tactical Officer, Advanced Ailerons)
4x Imperial Trainee (Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame)

I like the idea - although vs cavern angels you will feel the loss of ps3....

My one though - whilst AP5 is 15 points and combat-inept, the reaper is as effective a combatant as the strikers. Giving up his action to give an imperial trainee one seems the wrong way around.

A slicer to double-jam someone more important (because - a- most people are more important than your individual ships, and -b- you kill 2 actions with one of yours) seems like a better deal.

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I have to agree on Jam being a better deterrent and saves more ships than coordinate will.  Also a scarif base Pilot with the Striker Aces is solid. Even against the Cavern angles you moving and flying around them is going to force them in all kinds of directions they don’t want to be in.  I just am not sold on Krennic for a swarm list. Obviously personal mileage varies. 

 

When flying the Reaper at least in 1.0 is to keep this in mind. Other then the sloops and a lack of 2K turn, and it can just stop after going forward 1. They fly exactly like your striker. The 1 sloops take a bit of getting used to. Beyond that go nuts.

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I appreciate your thoughts, both of you. My hang up is this: I can't fit a TIE Reaper in with Scarif Defenders without dropping a ship. The only way to fit the Reaper in with the TIE Strikers is to use Imperial Trainees, which is not great against the X-wing menace. I'll have to figure out a way to keep it a heavy swarm. Basically, if they're all PS 1, that gives me 2 points on the Reaper. I could go Lightweight, but it would necessitate me buying another TIE striker, and then I might as well run 5 Scarif Defenders, and sell my TIE Reaper. So it makes more sense to probably go Intelligence Agent and keep a 1 point bid to take initiative. Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

I appreciate your thoughts, both of you. My hang up is this: I can't fit a TIE Reaper in with Scarif Defenders without dropping a ship. The only way to fit the Reaper in with the TIE Strikers is to use Imperial Trainees, which is not great against the X-wing menace. I'll have to figure out a way to keep it a heavy swarm. Basically, if they're all PS 1, that gives me 2 points on the Reaper. I could go Lightweight, but it would necessitate me buying another TIE striker, and then I might as well run 5 Scarif Defenders, and sell my TIE Reaper. So it makes more sense to probably go Intelligence Agent and keep a 1 point bid to take initiative. Thoughts?

Don’t mistake need for comfort level. You mentioned wanting to use the aces in on of my Reaper/Striker threads in the squad section. It might be a need for a bit more fitness and patience vs jumping at a jousting Swarm. Remember end of the day they are still X-wings and they dislike turning. 

The Reaper is a bit interesting in the Utility it will provide. It’s fast enough to help create flanks, while also a tough blocker. The Jam and ISB Slicers and LWF can make it handle some fire.  Divide and conquer the X-wings and make your opponent show who is he targeting. You can then bait and chase from the other side. Like your lamda it’s okay for the Reaper to not have tokens but using the action for jamming is really where it will shine.

I’m not sold on just an intelligence Agent on the Reaper your leaving a lot of utility for just that. You might as well just use the Death Troopers and force the opponent to just shoot the Reaper or get punished for it.

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6 hours ago, Parakitor said:

I appreciate your thoughts, both of you. My hang up is this: I can't fit a TIE Reaper in with Scarif Defenders without dropping a ship. The only way to fit the Reaper in with the TIE Strikers is to use Imperial Trainees, which is not great against the X-wing menace. I'll have to figure out a way to keep it a heavy swarm. Basically, if they're all PS 1, that gives me 2 points on the Reaper. I could go Lightweight, but it would necessitate me buying another TIE striker, and then I might as well run 5 Scarif Defenders, and sell my TIE Reaper. So it makes more sense to probably go Intelligence Agent and keep a 1 point bid to take initiative. Thoughts?

A tooled up reaper fits with the striker aces. With quad trainees, as you say, youve got 2 points. Lightweight frame feels like a waste because the reaper is already B-wing tough and lightweight doesn't  add that much toughness - because if you either plan to jam, coordinate or focus your attack, its one unmodified green die.

I don't think death troopers or tactical officer are a good call because the reaper is a 24 point ship amongst 19 point ships - giving them your action or drawing fire off them is a waste.

ISB slicer is good because it gives you a cheap action advantage - burning two enemy actions for one of yours

Intelligence agent isn't bad - I think alpha interceptors are better blockers than trainees but strikers are still really good. I wouldn't bother with an initiative bid for a purely PS1list, though...... Intel agent plus courier droid (free) plus multispectral camo to give you some harpoon protection for a point.

 

Without barrel roll, I'm not sure the reaper is too awesome a blocker, but boshek is a cool idea.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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I plan on trying something like this soon since I just got the Reaper and looking to get some Striker play in before 2nd ed since I'm excited to try out Sloane Striker swarm. 

Major Vermeil w/ VI, LWF, Ailerons, ISB Slicers, & Director Krennic

Pure Sabaac w/ VI, LWF, & Ailerons *OPTIMIZED* 

Countdown w/ LWF & Ailerons

Imperial Trainee w/ Ailerons

100 pts. 

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I think that's really solid @RStan. I'm a little concerned that VI only gets your guys from PS 6 to PS 8, which isn't quite worth it in my opinion. The X-wing heavy swarm has been destroying me with Crack Shot, so I'm thinking I might take your list, but give them a dose of their own medicine with Crack Shot instead of VI.

Also, I'm a little nervous about the Trainee without Lightweight Frame. Then again, we're going to have to get used to playing without it soon anyway.

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10 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I think that's really solid @RStan. I'm a little concerned that VI only gets your guys from PS 6 to PS 8, which isn't quite worth it in my opinion. The X-wing heavy swarm has been destroying me with Crack Shot, so I'm thinking I might take your list, but give them a dose of their own medicine with Crack Shot instead of VI.

Also, I'm a little nervous about the Trainee without Lightweight Frame. Then again, we're going to have to get used to playing without it soon anyway.

It is definitely a bit more meta dependent, but I like going to 8 to maximize ISB Slicer and Aileron moves for Vermeil and Sabaac against potential Miranda, Dash, and Inquisitor included lists. Now that would require a bid, which I haven't really found a spot for just yet. I've also come up with a variation that could also be interesting. 

Major Vermeil w/ VI, LWF, Ailerons, ISB Slicers, & Rebel Captive

Duchess w/ Adaptibility, LWF, & Ailerons 

Countdown w/ LWF & Ailerons

Imperial Trainee w/ LWF & Ailerons

100 pts

This offers me an alternative that helps the Trainee be more annoying a bit to last longer and with swapping Krennic for Rebel Captive I'm limiting opponent's maneuvers which allows better chances to get the Strikers in place. Could even take LWF off Vermeil to make him a more enticing target with the Rebel Captive drawback, VI Duchess and then you have a 1 pt bid. 

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