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ficklegreendice

VSDs and new upgrades

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Hey guys,

Been out of the loop for a while (hard to find space for a 3' by 6' in nyc :( ), but I've recently played a few games with two prospective players and realized how much a miss this game.

I'm assuming a lot of things have changed since Wave 4, but I mainly want to focus on the VSD because I own two of them and don't really have the income to expand my imperials too much. In glossing over the new upgrades, I've noticed two in particular that seems to really boost the capabilities of one of the most maligned ships in the game, the VSD-II.

Swm26-disposable-capacitors.pnglatest?cb=20170704063939

Now, the VSD-2 with these and gunnery team (and leading shots!) still clock in at an incredible points investment that is a bit worrisome given the VSD's not super durable frame, but goddamn does it seem like a good time.

Anyone have any experience with the VSD-II (or the VSD in general, really, because External Racks seem great with the VSD-I and its seemingly once per game close range attack) with these new upgrades, or are they basically as rare as they were in Wave IV?

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I admittedly have not been able to play with the new toys of this wave yet but my friend Rants and raves about disposable capacitors (DCaps) and Quad Battery Turrets (QBT). When comboed with a means to generate rerolls (Vader or leading shots) my friend has been able to single shot flotillas, cr90s, hammerheads, etc. with some reliability. 

External racks on the VSD-1 are pretty solid as a low cost defensive tool. A "don't step on snek" if you will. With the VSDs speed (or lack there of) means you weren't really getting too many round of close range shooting anyway. 

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I just came 3rd in a store champs and my last game I came up against 2 VSDs with these upgrades. 

 

He was a new guy so I was pretty confident but the 2 1 off shots he got with the above upgrades hurt me massively, admittedly he got max damage out of both shots (basically god rolls) but my demo was sneaking in and I figured I would shrugg off one volley and go on for the kill.... hell no. Ended up with 1 damage card left and I bailed with the ship for the rest of the game. 

 

I still won with a big MOV but that was down to missions. 

 

In short timed right with xi7s and concentrate firepower they are brutal. 

 

Wiukd you trade that ibe off shot shot for making demo bail for an entire game? I think so...

Edited by Benji1980

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It's a great time for VSDs. If you last played in wave 4, then look at the following in addition to the QBTs and DCaps you mentioned:

Moff Jerjerrod: Commander (wave 5) called the VSD patch when he was released. Gives them two clicks of yaw at the first joint, letting them turn and keep in the fight better.

Minister Tua: The other part of wave five buffing VSDs. For two points, you can get a Defensive Retrofit slot on a ship like a VSD. Get ECMs as a default if you want to be protected by your Brace against big attacks, or get Reinforced Blast Doors if you want to be protected against being whittled down by little attacks.

Arquitens and Quasar: The Empire's two newest ships stand out in part because they're very cheap, letting them fit into a list with two VSDs and taking on roles to complement the VSD as a gunship.

Admiral Sloan and Disposable Capacitors: You're right that DCaps extend the threat range of VSD 2 very nicely. But in addition it seems to me, and this is purely a gut feeling at this point, that their very existence in the meta makes bigger ships like VSDs more viable by punishing flotilla play. In wave 5 the game settled into a high activation meta due to flotilla bloat, and I'd estimate that at least half of tournament fleets were nothing but small base ships plus squadrons. Lately I've been seeing more three ship lists taken seriously (granted the first few weeks if a new wave come with some weird experimentation). Now that Sloan can burn Scatter tokens and DCaps can throw blue dice at long range, flotillas are less survivable (and the new FAQ nerfed some other small-only strats like TRC90 and lifeboat flotillas) and you might not get so dramatically out activated with VSDs.

External Racks: They can find a place on a VSD 1 when you absolutely positively want to kill something in the one time per game that something skims into your close range.

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Vsd 1, vet gunners, external racks, quad battery turrets. 86 points. Add JJ, run two and season to taste with squadrons and other activations. Nav, nav, and then concentrate fire for the rest of the game. Utterly lethal, eachh one can spit out an obscene amount of fire power.

Edited by herod1204

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I've been running a pair of VSDIIs with QBT, DC, GT, and experimenting with the ion slot from there. Leading Shots at long range is pretty great, but I'm really enjoying being an absolute **** using them with Screed to throw out long range blue crit effects.

With Leading Shots and SW7, Motti and Jerjerrod are go-to. That double-click is fantastic, especially when leveraging speed 1 for QBTs. It also means you can hard-90 with a pair of double clicks off a navigate command, and it's always kind of hilarious seeing a star destroyer handbrake turn around an obstacle.

Minister Tua is also a hell of a friend to the Vic. Suddenly ECM protects that brace, or you can pair Blast Doors with Motti for a damage soak. Either way, those base 8 hull aren't quite as fragile anymore. Jerjerrod also helps you keep your highest shields facing a threat, to boot (As a friend pointed out, with Motti, Blast Doors, QBT, and DC, they're essentially ISDs for a turn of your choosing).

 

They're still not cheap, but in my opinion, the investment is now worth it. I wasn't crazy about them before, but lately I'm just putting two on a list and building the rest around them. Super fun, and hold their own. The fix is in, so to speak.

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12 hours ago, Nostromoid said:

Admiral Sloan and Disposable Capacitors: You're right that DCaps extend the threat range of VSD 2 very nicely. But in addition it seems to me, and this is purely a gut feeling at this point, that their very existence in the meta makes bigger ships like VSDs more viable by punishing flotilla play. In wave 5 the game settled into a high activation meta due to flotilla bloat, and I'd estimate that at least half of tournament fleets were nothing but small base ships plus squadrons. Lately I've been seeing more three ship lists taken seriously (granted the first few weeks if a new wave come with some weird experimentation). Now that Sloan can burn Scatter tokens and DCaps can throw blue dice at long range, flotillas are less survivable (and the new FAQ nerfed some other small-only strats like TRC90 and lifeboat flotillas) and you might not get so dramatically out activated with VSDs.

Huh. You know, thinking about it, I think Sloan might actually work pretty well with VSDs- They hit like a truck with disposable capacitors and can still command a decent number of squadrons, without the 120+ point investment most ISDs turn into. It'd need to be playtested, and the nav chart is a problem of course, but in the right hands the VSD could fit in the sweet spot between the cheap but almost toothless Quasar and mighty but expensive ISD for Sloane- In theory letting you get the activations you need without sacrificing firepower.

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I ran one in my first wave 6 game - VSD2, Gunnery teams, disposable caps, quad batteries and leading shots.

It was actually a lot of fun to use. Plinked a lot of flotillas with it. It really needed an intel officer to be able to threaten my opponents MC80.

I like the idea of adding screed for blue critical effects, but a lot of ships would just evade your blue crit.

 

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It works pretty reliably with Screed when you throw in Intel Officer. It forces a difficult decision for the target. Even worse if your ion choice is NK7... something is definitely leaving at that stage, it's just a case of what.

DC also helps at long range, and it takes care of itself at medium, with a couple of accuracy rolls, or even just multiple crits. If you roll one crit but no accuracy, Screed into a second and you're golden.

It's not guaranteed to work every time, but I've had a hell of a lot of fun playing around with them, and found them surprisingly effective.

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What about VSD II with SW-7's, Disp Caps, Quad Batteries, and Dominator?

That's a full 3 reds and 3 blues base, +1 blue from Quad, +2 from Dom., and another +1 blue CF.  10 dice at long range, and 7 of those are a sure thing with SW-7's.  You're bound to get a few acc from rolling 7 blues... I haven't had the chance to try it yet but I feel that could pretty much blow through almost anything. I mean, in a perfect world that's a possible 13 damage at long range in one shot that's pretty likely to get through.  You're pretty much guaranteed to one-shot anything at medium size or less, and with a bit of luck you could bust open an MC80 too.  You'd have to roll two doubles and no blanks on the reds to do it, or one double from behind to do it... but it could be done, and I don't think it would be THAT unlikely. Anyone tried this?  Perhaps I'm missing something obvious that would make this more unlikely.

Edited by Varulfr

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2 minutes ago, Varulfr said:

What about VSD II with SW-7's, Disp Caps, Quad Batteries, and Dominator?

That's a full 3 reds and 3 blues base, +1 blue from Quad, +2 from Dom., and another +1 blue CF.  10 dice at long range, and 7 of those are a sure thing with SW-7's.  You're bound to get a few acc from rolling 7 blues... I haven't had the chance to try it yet but I feel that could pretty much blow through almost anything. I mean, in a perfect world that's a possible 13 damage at long range in one shot that's pretty likely to get through.  You're pretty much guaranteed to one-shot anything at medium size or less, and with a bit of luck you could bust open an MC80 too.  Anyone tried this?  Perhaps I'm missing something obvious that would make this more unlikely.

Except that Dominator is only close-medium range...

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2 minutes ago, Onidsen said:

Except that Dominator is only close-medium range...

Bah I totally forgot about that. It was a nice dream! It's almost as if they planned it that way :P

Edited by Varulfr

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...That and the cost keep Dominator from being an acceptable title. Warlord with H9s is much better to field, doing 1 auto-damage to every squad at medium range. Even so... still not as good as Demolisher.

It's nice to see help trickle in for the VSD over successive waves, but I feel like it's still lacking in those two areas (Speed, protection) to keep it from feeling fine. DCaps helps overcome speed problems at least by letting you fire off the full battery as soon as you are able to shoot, but it won't help the VSD-I commit it's second battery dice row if it's stuck chasing anything. QBTs can help this, and it's the ship benefited the most by this card because there is no possible way to go effective speed 3. But I never really felt the VSD needed more firepower increases.... the battery it has is pretty good. It just needs to not be vulnerable to XI7 + accuracy, and it needs a way to get it's entire battery into play faster (especially now for the VSD-I).

Yes Tua exists for protection, but I'd like options to help players running two identical VSDs with gun load-outs that won't leave one more vulnerable than the other. Also, why must I give up the officer slot for protection the ship needs anyway?

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Well, my standard build that I plan to continue refining is a Vic-II with Gunnery Team, DCaps, Leading Shots and Quads. 104pts, doesn't even use the officer slot and can be taken in multiples. It's admittedly a bit lacking in the toughness area without ECM, but it provides some fairly impressive artillery fire downrange.

It doesn't strictly *need* the Gunnery Teams, but I figure the long range arc covers a pretty impressive swathe of real estate, and having a good likelihood of smashing two separate targets at long range with 7 dice gives me the warm and fuzzies. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Diabloelmo said:

Well, my standard build that I plan to continue refining is a Vic-II with Gunnery Team, DCaps, Leading Shots and Quads. 104pts, doesn't even use the officer slot and can be taken in multiples. It's admittedly a bit lacking in the toughness area without ECM, but it provides some fairly impressive artillery fire downrange.

It doesn't strictly *need* the Gunnery Teams, but I figure the long range arc covers a pretty impressive swathe of real estate, and having a good likelihood of smashing two separate targets at long range with 7 dice gives me the warm and fuzzies. 

 

Put an intel officer there and this becomes even scarier

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7 hours ago, Diabloelmo said:

It doesn't strictly *need* the Gunnery Teams, but I figure the long range arc covers a pretty impressive swathe of real estate, and having a good likelihood of smashing two separate targets at long range with 7 dice gives me the warm and fuzzies. 

It's true. Last night I was able to use it for the first time (altough without Leading Shots, but I had Vader as my commander) and in 2nd turn I one shotted both a Hammerhead and Bright Hope. Also to note in my favor that the objective was Opening Salvo so I get to add 2 blacks while attacking the Hammerhead, but it was great

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Vic-I w/Skilled First Officer, Gunnery Team, Expanded Hanger Bay, External Racks and Quad Battery Turrets. The OG carrier is now a scary gunship as well throwing all kinds of dice to support your fighter ball, Quasar can't do that.

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I took second in 2 tournaments this weekend. Only had 1 loss (5/6) in 6 games. Ran this list Saturday

Jerry's Victorious Victories
Author: Megatronrex

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 111 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 134 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 111 total ship cost

4 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 44 points)

Ran this one Sunday

Jerry's Victorious Dic
Author: Megatronrex

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Captain Needa  ( 2  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 106 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
Interdictor  ( 3  points)
-  Wulff Yularen  ( 7  points)
-  Projection Experts  ( 6  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Targeting Scrambler  ( 5  points)
-  Grav Shift Reroute  ( 2  points)
= 139 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Minister Tua  ( 2  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 111 total ship cost

4 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 44 points)

I definitely liked the 2nd list better and didn't lose any matches with it. They both really need more speed and Blockade Run is the weakest objective for them both. I'll probably switch it out for Opening Salvo before I run either list again.

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I placed second in a Store Champ this weekend with 2 Vic-Is. I ran them cheap, just OE and Racks. The downside is that I didn't feel like that one huge barrage (3 red + 5 black) did QUITE as much as I would have liked. Think it needs something more to really sing, like XI7 perhaps? Regardless, I'm thinking VSD-IIs are really where it's at. I was strongly considering a Dictor/VSD list like the above...

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1 hour ago, Megatronrex said:

I took second in 2 tournaments this weekend. Only had 1 loss (5/6) in 6 games. Ran this list Saturday

Jerry's Victorious Victories
Author: Megatronrex

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 111 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 134 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 111 total ship cost

4 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 44 points)

Ran this one Sunday

Jerry's Victorious Dic
Author: Megatronrex

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Captain Needa  ( 2  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 106 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
Interdictor  ( 3  points)
-  Wulff Yularen  ( 7  points)
-  Projection Experts  ( 6  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Targeting Scrambler  ( 5  points)
-  Grav Shift Reroute  ( 2  points)
= 139 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
-  Minister Tua  ( 2  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 111 total ship cost

4 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 44 points)

I definitely liked the 2nd list better and didn't lose any matches with it. They both really need more speed and Blockade Run is the weakest objective for them both. I'll probably switch it out for Opening Salvo before I run either list again.

Ima run this, i think. I like it. 

Agree with second list looking better. 

Obvious questions regarding if you had issues with lack of antisquad, sloane strippers or being heavily outactivated?

I'd also hate to run into an ackbar strategic list that bids 399 and goes second.

But all in all I love them big brick lists.

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