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Sloane Nerf?

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Cmon people we all know the perfect counter to Sloane is General Tagge. (Sadly I'm only partially kidding) Not gonna want him against any other commander but if i was constantly running into Sloane swarms I'd give an MSU light squadron list with him a try.

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3 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I'm not arguing she's OP. I'm arguing that saying she's fine because Nym exists makes no sense. Its an inherently flawed argument. Sloane is a commander, Nym is a single fighter stand.

I didn't say one things brings to the other. Just put some numbers to help people avoid the unrealistic thought that she is stripping ships just with her presence.

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2 hours ago, xerpo said:

You can also go off the table with your squadrons, or stay at home and watch the last season of game of thrones for the matter.

You can also go on a forums and whine about it...

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41 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Why did you do it then? 

 

2 hours ago, n00bzilla99 said:

or stay at home and watch the last season of game of thrones for the matter.

 

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7 hours ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

It's sounds a lot more scary than it actually is. The chances of rolling an accuracy are only about 25% on the blue dice (little higher with the crit re-roll). If he does this though, he's not actually doing damage to your ships, if he threw them out a foot he not actually using his ships to shoot your exhausted defenseless ships, and that gives you a chance to jump his fighters and go for your own alpha strike.

When you take a squadron command, you move AND shoot. So round 1, squadron command, move 5 (expanded hangar bays on an ISD). Round 2, squadron command again and then move and shoot with 5. Strip/exhaust tokens and dish damage.  Second ship, repeat the process with the next 5, and so on.

Edited by Boris_the_Dwarf

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1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

When you take a squadron command, you move AND shoot. So round 1, squadron command, move 5 (expanded hangar bays on an ISD). Round 2, squadron command again and then move and shoot with 5. Strip/exhaust tokens and dish damage.  Second ship, repeat the process with the next 5, and so on.

Unless you have BC, you can't actually move speed 5 and command those squads without exposing yourself. Either you're going slow and you over extend your squads, or you're going fast and rushing into the enemy fleet. If your opponent is flinging squads ahead at speed 5, why are you not using anti-squad shots from your ships? Chances are you can make medium range. 

I have this weird feeling your opponent was bending the rules in some way, unknowing and it screwed you in your single game against Sloane. What you've been describing over the past few days simply shouldn't be possible unless you have everything go your way.

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Right. Based on everything that's been said so far, and in that past thread, there seem like there are two things wrong here:

A. Your opponent was [apparently] not a nice person; he may have bent the rules. Certainly your report is very much an outlier in anecdote AND statistically unsupported, compared to EG Rieekan or Rhymer, where there was data from top tournaments demonstrating that they were vastly overperforming. It sort of astounds me that you would get so salty on an online message board (presumably not frequented by this opponent, even!) on the basis of a single game; if your testimony is true, just take a deep breath, forget that --that player-- was a "negative play experience" and reset your observations accordingly.

B. You have never, to the best of my knowledge, posted much of anything about what you were running, except by circumstantial evidence of what you mention/complain about; it seems like it was an ace-heavy Rieekan list, yes? Because the irony here is *that is exactly the list that so many people were really frustrated with, and was statistically overperforming*. So you may also need to reset your expectations for YOURSELF, if your list was essentially winning your games for you. I don't want to sound too much like 'git gud' but you really haven't talked at all about your own tactics or list, and minimally about your opponent's, so it's really hard to assess and that's really the only available answer.

So in conclusion: lots of irony here. But most important thing is that this is a *single game* we're talking about, against a person you say was a bad character themselves, and the rest has been, at best, theorycrafting. Look at the reports people have posted of recent store championships and so forth: LOTS of Sloane since she's a new admiral with interesting mechanics...but she's not sweeping the *wins* or top tables. Those BatReps might also give you a better idea how to fight her, both in terms of countering her and playing your own list well.

Edit: To be clear - since this thread has essentially put down an Interdictor gravity well and sucked in the deleted thread as well, when it would've been better left to just hyperspace into an asteroid field... my response is aimed at Boris the Dwarf, not the original poster in this thread, Payens.

Edited by Kadorak
Clarity of who I was addressing.

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24 minutes ago, Kadorak said:

Look at the reports people have posted of recent store championships and so forth: LOTS of Sloane since she's a new admiral with interesting mechanics...but she's not sweeping the *wins* or top tables.

store champ data as of now:

52 fleets in 6 tournaments where we have all, or nearly all, lists:  13 Sloane, 2 of those in top quarter, 4 in bottom quarter.  So, too little data to make a strong conclusion, but so far she's doing OK, not great, not poorly.

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Sure, I wouldn't publish a peer-reviewed journal article based on what you have so far, but it seems pretty solid. Certainly better than just relying on one very vague/fuzzy story.

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Woah there! 

9 minutes ago, Kadorak said:

Sure, I wouldn't publish a peer-reviewed journal article based on what you have so far, but it seems pretty solid. Certainly better than just relying on one very vague/fuzzy story.

Woah there! We don't need that kind of talk around here! Furries Stories have no place in Armada... Unless the are dressed as Ewoks or Wookies! And another thing...

 

...

 

You said fuzzy, not furries didn'tya?

Um, please disregard.

Well, I'm off to find Ewok PJs for the wife!

Edited by cynanbloodbane
Warning: may only be funny for me or at 2:00 AM... Or both.

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6 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

It worked with Rieekan and Rhymer..

 

Except FFG analysed data from worlds and saw that 9/10 of the top 10 lists had Rieekan and Bomber aces put together in pretty much the same builds. They also saw that Rhymer and Demolisher were present in the top Imperial finishers, and that everyone used a lifeboat, so they nerfed those too.

It's almost like they used data and facts rather than a single anecdote (unsupported by data) from a single source.

As for the Rieekan nerf, if you're looking for sympathy, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Edited by n00bzilla99

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6 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

It worked with Rieekan and Rhymer..

 

Actually it didnt. 

FFG went to worlds and listened to the players there, watched the games and studied the tournament data collated by Shmitty and co. 

The whining achieved nothing. 

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4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Actually it didnt. 

FFG went to worlds and listened to the players there, watched the games and studied the tournament data collated by Shmitty and co. 

The whining achieved nothing. 

And then they disregarded the upcoming release of an Imperial counter that as a result has the potential to become a problem in its own right.

 

Ah, the FFG way... 

Edited by Boris_the_Dwarf

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22 minutes ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

And then they disregarded the upcoming release of an Imperial counter that as a result has the potential to become a problem in its own right.

 

Ah, the FFG way... 

I don't see how they ignored Sloane's release. Rhymer's nerf clearly had a lot to do with her addition to the game.

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1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

And then they disregarded the upcoming release of an Imperial counter that as a result has the potential to become a problem in its own right.

Just to be clear, you're saying that Sloan was a going to be a Reeiken counter? If so you have to run your argument in reverse. Reeiken zombie X-wings actually would have been a hard counter to Sloan. With his popularity Sloan would have probably been reserved for fun lists after the new hotness wore off. I think the Reeiken (plus the Rhymer nerf - and all the nerfs in general) really happened because they were pigeon holing game development. Want a fighter commander? Why, we have Rhymer. Want a ship commander? Why, we have Reeiken. Let make someone boost the **** out of fighters? Reeiken X-wings. Let's make an awesome command ship? Lifeboats...

My perception of good game development is to avoid hard counters, whether you believe that Sloan countered Reeiken or how I believe pre-nerf Reeiken countered Sloan. Good games try to make all pieces competitive on some level no matter what your opponent takes.

Ultimately, despite the disagreements that seem to happen I think mostly people are saying it's way too early to say Sloan is OP. The silver lining though is if you're right, your gripe about the nerfs recognizes that FFG will fix it through an errata.

Edited by ImpStarDeuces

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8 hours ago, Baltanok said:

store champ data as of now:

52 fleets in 6 tournaments where we have all, or nearly all, lists:  13 Sloane, 2 of those in top quarter, 4 in bottom quarter.  So, too little data to make a strong conclusion, but so far she's doing OK, not great, not poorly.

You probably didn't get the SC for the 2 tournaments I went to. Sloane took first in one, I came second with JJ.

Then the other was JJ first, JJ second.  No Sloane at that tournament though.

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1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

And then they disregarded the upcoming release of an Imperial counter that as a result has the potential to become a problem in its own right.

 

Ah, the FFG way... 

I've still seen no data to support Sloane as a Rieekan counter from you. She just encourages the imperial AA archaetype by allowing it to carry on well AFTER the squad game.  Has very little to do with Rieekan given she has a negligible impact on that actual squad game and its outcome (the quasar as a good FC platform has more).  But, as clearly illustrated, you are too hung up on a game where you performed poorly to actually analyze opposed to whining reprehensibly.

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12 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

You probably didn't get the SC for the 2 tournaments I went to. Sloane took first in one, I came second with JJ.

Then the other was JJ first, JJ second.  No Sloane at that tournament though.

Definitely didn't get either of those.  There were 3 wave 6 tournaments that we only got top finishers for that had a lot of Sloane, but if you don't have the bottom finishers or overall population, that data isn't as useful to determine if something is OP, or just really popular.

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1 minute ago, Baltanok said:

Definitely didn't get either of those.  There were 3 wave 6 tournaments that we only got top finishers for that had a lot of Sloane, but if you don't have the bottom finishers or overall population, that data isn't as useful to determine if something is OP, or just really popular.

Failing that it is also brand new, you need the data to settle in as people adapt.  Initial knee jerk reactions are not useful.  I'd expect to see the new thing win initially for this reason alone if someone tapped into it very well.

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1 hour ago, Megatronrex said:

I don't see how they ignored Sloane's release. Rhymer's nerf clearly had a lot to do with her addition to the game.

Not only for Sloane. The Squall Quasar would have been really nasty with the old Rhymer. Activate, move 3 squadrons in, attack with the squadrons, move them out again. And if you add Jendon, you have 4 squadrons who can attack ships without any chance for the opponent to fire on them.

It is still possible. But it is harder right now, because you need to get to close range.

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4 hours ago, Darthain said:

Failing that it is also brand new, you need the data to settle in as people adapt.  Initial knee jerk reactions are not useful.  I'd expect to see the new thing win initially for this reason alone if someone tapped into it very well.

Well, we could see it go either way at this point.  People are still learning how to use her, and how to fight her.  Don't know which of those will happen faster, or win in the end.

It will be interesting to see how things change over the next month or so, or how regionals look this fall.

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