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Sunny Bounder and Focus

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At the same time, you don't have to do rerolls first if you have multiple modifications. So if you have both focus and a target lock, you can.

  • Initial Roll [hit] [focus] - Tokens focus, target lock
  • Not all same result: Sunny's ability does not trigger
  • Spend focus token: [hit] [hit]
  • Not rolling or rerolling dice: Sunny's ability does not trigger
  • Spend target lock (reroll any number of attack dice), choose to reroll zero attack dice.
  • Now rerolling dice (even if it's zero dice), Sunny's ability does trigger: [hit] [hit] [hit]

Obviously this isn't easy to achieve, since sunny has no elite pilot talent. It's a nice trick to remember if you have Manaroo or a Targeting Synchroniser in your squad, though.

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On 7/17/2017 at 3:37 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

At the same time, you don't have to do rerolls first if you have multiple modifications. So if you have both focus and a target lock, you can.

  • Initial Roll [hit] [focus] - Tokens focus, target lock
  • Not all same result: Sunny's ability does not trigger
  • Spend focus token: [hit] [hit]
  • Not rolling or rerolling dice: Sunny's ability does not trigger
  • Spend target lock (reroll any number of attack dice), choose to reroll zero attack dice.
  • Now rerolling dice (even if it's zero dice), Sunny's ability does trigger: [hit] [hit] [hit]

Obviously this isn't easy to achieve, since sunny has no elite pilot talent. It's a nice trick to remember if you have Manaroo or a Targeting Synchroniser in your squad, though.

Spend target lock (reroll any number of attack dice), choose to reroll zero attack dice.    

Sexy... I love it!!! 

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"Once per round, after you roll or reroll dice, if you have the same result on each of your dice, add 1 matching result."

If you spend the Target Lock to reroll 0 dice, you can trigger effects out of spending that token, but you haven't rolled or rerolled anything. Sunny Bounder doesn't apply here, because her trigger is rolling or rerolling dice, not spending a target lock.

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19 minutes ago, Willy Jarque said:

"Once per round, after you roll or reroll dice, if you have the same result on each of your dice, add 1 matching result."

If you spend the Target Lock to reroll 0 dice, you can trigger effects out of spending that token, but you haven't rolled or rerolled anything. Sunny Bounder doesn't apply here, because her trigger is rolling or rerolling dice, not spending a target lock.

Except that the game clearly distinguishes between doing 0 of something and not doing it at all - c.f. the fact that Omega Leader blocks the spending of tokens to change 0 results.  It would have to say 'Once per round after you roll or reroll at least 1 die, if all results in your pool match, add a matching result' for this not to work.  Or the FAQ would have to be inconsistent.  It's not like it would be the first time.

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Except that the game clearly distinguishes between doing 0 of something and not doing it at all - c.f. the fact that Omega Leader blocks the spending of tokens to change 0 results.  It would have to say 'Once per round after you roll or reroll at least 1 die, if all results in your pool match, add a matching result' for this not to work.  Or the FAQ would have to be inconsistent.  It's not like it would be the first time.

It's not like that. You are spending the token to change ALL your results. It's not like "name a number and change that many results". 
So the FAQ would not be inconsistent if i'm right.

Modifying something and how you manage that modification is not the same as actually doing something.

 

Ask yourself: "I spend a target lock. I choose 0 as the number of dice to reroll. Did I reroll any dice? Nope. So Sunny doesn't trigger"

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36 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

I submitted the question of rerolling 0 dice for sunny to FFG a while back.  I have yet to have a response, however.  There are so many rules now that even they must be careful how they answer :P

 

 

Its already in the FAQ that you can reroll zero dice. What is ambiguous about the text that would make it possibly not work? After you rerolled you have two matching dice, so the criteria is met. I'm not sure how one could argue it doesn't work. 

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55 minutes ago, Smitty said:

Its already in the FAQ that you can reroll zero dice. What is ambiguous about the text that would make it possibly not work? After you rerolled you have two matching dice, so the criteria is met. I'm not sure how one could argue it doesn't work. 

Because of the wording of Sunny's trigger.  It's an english language thing:

- "I spend a target lock to reroll 0 dice and trigger Sunny"

- "But you did not reroll dice."

- "Yes I did, I rerolled zero dice."

- "Show me the dice you rerolled"

If a player is stuck quoting FAQs regarding other pilots abilities with similar, but not the exact, wording, intent, etc, then it becomes a potential for an argument in the middle of a tournament.  Sometimes, a clarification is better than having to spend several precious minutes in a tournament arguing about it.

 

Edit: and for the record, I'm in favor of rerolling zero dice to trigger her ability, but it does not mean that I would be able to successfully argue another player (or the TO who might have varying level of experience) over it.

Edited by dotswarlock
clarification.

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8 hours ago, Willy Jarque said:

It's not like that. You are spending the token to change ALL your results. It's not like "name a number and change that many results". (1)
So the FAQ would not be inconsistent if i'm right. (2)

Modifying something and how you manage that modification is not the same as actually doing something. (3)

 

Ask yourself: "I spend a target lock. I choose 0 as the number of dice to reroll. Did I reroll any dice (4)? Nope. So Sunny doesn't trigger"

Footnotes added to quote text above.

1. Where in the rules does it say you can't choose zero?

2. How, exactly? Please feel free to share reference images or copied text, if that saves time.

3. What?

4. Yes, you rerolled zero dice. If they required you to roll a number higher than zero, they would have used the wording on C-3PO. Otherwise, zero is a legal target, and the game logic does not care about the physical logic you're suggesting.

 

EDIT: From the FAQ, under Spending Tokens - "When attacking, players may spend target locks and choose to reroll 0 attack dice."

Keyword there is that you are allowed to reroll zero dice. Therefore, X-Wing considers you to have rerolled dice, so game effects looking for rerolling trigger.

Edited by ArbitraryNerd
Added FAQ text.

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0 is a value number in this game time and time again. Unless it is called out specifically, 0 is not suddenly an invalid number for triggering things.

HSCP still triggers when theres 0 defense dice rolled. If you rolled 0 defense, how do you continue in the steps since you are now stuck at "Roll defense dice" but you have none to roll? It doesnt give you a special case for that, because 0 is a valid number.

Hell, TECHNICALLY Sunny's ability procs when he rolls 0 dice (not sure how that'd happen and still be alive). Course it doesnt do anything cause 0 + 0 = 0.

Edited by Vineheart01

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2 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Hell, TECHNICALLY Sunny's ability procs when he rolls 0 dice (not sure how that'd happen and still be alive). 

Old deck blind pilot, or heavy title for extra hull then get two weapons failure crits. Moot point it would add zero dice. 

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How is that not a moot point lol? Moot means pointless or irrelevant, it doesn't mean false. You're correct, but it is without purpose as it does nothing its just an amusing curiosity. 

Edited by Smitty

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19 minutes ago, Smitty said:

Moot means pointless or irrelevant

It can, but that's a colloquialism, not the root meaning. A moot is an or organised discussion, and a moot point is one that needs to be raised at a moot because it is unclear or contested.

Not to be confused with mute point, which is people being unable to use words properly.

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26 minutes ago, Smitty said:

How is that not a moot point lol? Moot means pointless or irrelevant, it doesn't mean false. You're correct, but it is without purpose as it does nothing its just an amusing curiosity. 

Sunny bounder is hit by multiple tractor tokens, reducing her agility to zero.

She is attacked, and rolls zero dice in response. They all have the same result, so she adds 1 ... something? Then uses Serissu to reroll that something?

 

Alternately, Weapons Failure crit + Suppressive Fire condition from Captain Rex has her rolling zero attack dice.

What result does she add if she rolls no dice? Is it her choice? Can she say, "all zero of my dice show critical hits, so I will add one critical hit"?

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10 minutes ago, Bascaria said:

What result does she add if she rolls no dice? Is it her choice? Can she say, "all zero of my dice show critical hits, so I will add one critical hit"?

All your dice show 1 "nothing" so you will add one matching result: 1 additional nothing is added to your roll. You have rolled a lot of nothing.

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3 minutes ago, ZealuxMyr said:

All your dice show 1 "nothing" so you will add one matching result: 1 additional nothing is added to your roll. You have rolled a lot of nothing.

Alternately, though, all my dice show critical hits (or evades if green), so I add one of those. Sure I have no critical hits, but it is a trivially true fact that all zero of my dice show that face.

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If I can spend a focus to change my zero eyeball results, or a target lock to reroll my zero dice, then why can't I spend Sunny's ability to duplicate my zero evades?

Where in the rules of X-Wing does it define the face of zero dice as "nothing"?

I get that I'm being pedantic.

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1 hour ago, Bascaria said:

Sunny bounder is hit by multiple tractor tokens, reducing her agility to zero.

She is attacked, and rolls zero dice in response. They all have the same result, so she adds 1 ... something? Then uses Serissu to reroll that something?

 

Alternately, Weapons Failure crit + Suppressive Fire condition from Captain Rex has her rolling zero attack dice.

What result does she add if she rolls no dice? Is it her choice? Can she say, "all zero of my dice show critical hits, so I will add one critical hit"?

Null doesn't equal blank you literally add zero dice to match your zero dice. There is nothing to reroll.

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1 hour ago, InquisitorM said:

It can, but that's a colloquialism, not the root meaning. A moot is an or organised discussion, and a moot point is one that needs to be raised at a moot because it is unclear or contested.

Not to be confused with mute point, which is people being unable to use words properly.

Yes that's the etymology of the word, but i used the colloquial phrase "moot point" and then was clarify based upon that usage. Either way it's a moot point (lol couldn't resist), my intention was to say yes it works but to absolutely no purpose or effect.

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