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Initial Set up, an example

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Ok let's say I have bought the game, and it's all set up. The players are sat around the table, and wait expectantly.

Going through character creation, what 'problems' would we run into because of how the game was built up as concerning available resources within the game box? I'm not talking about the rules, that's been covered extensively. I'm talking more about the player's options inside the box.

Thanks all

 

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OK, you've got 5 players and one boxed set.  This would be like having 5 players and one D&D Players Handbook.  If you have more than 3 players, ideally you'll have two or more boxed sets.

Here are your bottleneck points:

1.  Character creation rules.  One book?  Takes a long time.  Solution:  Buy extra boxed sets or have players download the PDF of the CORE.  That means you will have a laptop or two at the game table, during generation.  After that, BAN computers from your table..else you'll have people surfing for imaginary girlfriends while waiting for the dice-shortage-system to have worked its way over to them ;)

2.  Advancement rules (after your first game).  Same as #1 above.

3.  Career cards.  It's rare that two players want to play the same character career, but ideally, you don't have the career card on the table.  You have the players write the talent sockets on the side of their character sheet.  Really, why have the career card out?  it's just for advancement and background.  Having the Talent sockets on there was bad game design and is risky for spillage-of-coke-on-the-table.  Our group puts the sockets on the char-sheet.

4.  Dice.  You're going to be short dice until EVERYONE has their own dice.  What we've done for a solution is to have a box-top between players and they share a pit of dice.  We're still awaiting dice from TFAW.com..I think they were supposed to be in a month ago.

5.  Basic Action Cards.  These are the same on both sides.  Ditch the cards and just make a print-out summary for your extra players.  It will take up a LOT less space and you can fix the card's missing data about "universal boon/bane effects" where necessary. You could also have players SHARE between them.

6.  Action Cards (non-basic).  If any need to be duplicated..well, there you go.

7.  Talents.  See action cards above.

8.  Conditions:  You will end up short condition cards at some point as well.  We use a single sheet of paper and don't use cards for conditions anymore (who has time to search through the stack for them anyways).  Cards for conditions were a bad idea in this game.

9.  Monster Card-board Stand-Ups.  You're going to have a player who's going to say,"I attack the Orc that looks like the Artoisian boar."

10.  Tuck's Medicated Boxes (3).  I haven't even opened these.   We put cards in zyplock bags..much more sensible..but not as pretty.

Here are a couple other specific solutions:

1.  Buy an extra boxed set or two with all the money you've saved by not blowing it all on 4E D&D supplement-of-the-weeks anymore ;)

2.  Have players purchase a PDF for themselves..but this is really useful only for working on characters at home..and you still don't have access to any cards that way...

3.  For personal use, create or acquire a condition summary sheet:  http://gallery.rptools.net/v/contrib/emirikol7/?g2_page=2

4.  For personal use, create or duplicate the basic actions for your extra players.

5.  Use a character sheet that has the TALENT SOCKETS on it:  74.53.20.230/hammerzeit/index.php.  This will get your valuable career cards off the table (where they WILL get wrecked next time someone spills their coke).

6.  Encourage players NOT to pick the same advanced actions unless they're going to purchase their own game

I'm trying not to tell you to photocopy anything, but that works too if you have extra players until players purchase their own sets or some other solution is presented by FFG.

7.  Print out some RACE CARDS so that the players can "tap" or reference them instead of trying to read that info on a dinky character sheet:  gallery.rptools.net/v/contrib/emirikol7/

jh

..

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Emirikol said:

OK, you've got 5 players and one boxed set.  This would be like having 5 players and one D&D Players Handbook.  If you have more than 3 players, ideally you'll have two or more boxed sets.

Here are your bottleneck points:

1.  Character creation rules.  One book?  Takes a long time.  Solution:  Buy extra boxed sets or have players download the PDF of the CORE.  That means you will have a laptop or two at the game table, during generation.  After that, BAN computers from your table..else you'll have people surfing for imaginary girlfriends while waiting for the dice-shortage-system to have worked its way over to them ;)

2.  Advancement rules (after your first game).  Same as #1 above.

3.  Career cards.  It's rare that two players want to play the same character career, but ideally, you don't have the career card on the table.  You have the players write the talent sockets on the side of their character sheet.  Really, why have the career card out?  it's just for advancement and background.  Having the Talent sockets on there was bad game design and is risky for spillage-of-coke-on-the-table.  Our group puts the sockets on the char-sheet.

4.  Dice.  You're going to be short dice until EVERYONE has their own dice.  What we've done for a solution is to have a box-top between players and they share a pit of dice.  We're still awaiting dice from TFAW.com..I think they were supposed to be in a month ago.

5.  Basic Action Cards.  These are the same on both sides.  Ditch the cards and just make a print-out summary for your extra players.  It will take up a LOT less space and you can fix the card's missing data about "universal boon/bane effects" where necessary. You could also have players SHARE between them.

6.  Action Cards (non-basic).  If any need to be duplicated..well, there you go.

7.  Talents.  See action cards above.

8.  Conditions:  You will end up short condition cards at some point as well.  We use a single sheet of paper and don't use cards for conditions anymore (who has time to search through the stack for them anyways).  Cards for conditions were a bad idea in this game.

9.  Monster Card-board Stand-Ups.  You're going to have a player who's going to say,"I attack the Orc that looks like the Artoisian boar."

10.  Tuck's Medicated Boxes (3).  I haven't even opened these.   We put cards in zyplock bags..much more sensible..but not as pretty.

Here are a couple other specific solutions:

1.  Buy an extra boxed set or two with all the money you've saved by not blowing it all on 4E D&D supplement-of-the-weeks anymore ;)

2.  Have players purchase a PDF for themselves..but this is really useful only for working on characters at home..and you still don't have access to any cards that way...

3.  For personal use, create or acquire a condition summary sheet:  http://gallery.rptools.net/v/contrib/emirikol7/?g2_page=2

4.  For personal use, create or duplicate the basic actions for your extra players.

5.  Use a character sheet that has the TALENT SOCKETS on it:  74.53.20.230/hammerzeit/index.php.  This will get your valuable career cards off the table (where they WILL get wrecked next time someone spills their coke).

6.  Encourage players NOT to pick the same advanced actions unless they're going to purchase their own game

I'm trying not to tell you to photocopy anything, but that works too if you have extra players until players purchase their own sets or some other solution is presented by FFG.

7.  Print out some RACE CARDS so that the players can "tap" or reference them instead of trying to read that info on a dinky character sheet:  gallery.rptools.net/v/contrib/emirikol7/

jh

..

Woah...heavy stuff man...

But thank you!

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Hey! Here are the things that I found helpful when running people through character creation. We never have more than one set of rulebooks, although we do have two full sets of dice. (I've never found the rulebooks to be a problem, and we shared dice for a few gamesit wasn't that bad!) I use all the 'original' sheets and cards that came with the set, except we use metal miniatures instead of PC standees.

To get ready, I'd have the following:

the default action cards listed in the ToA pulled out and arranged into decks for each player
the rest of the action cards separated by class and alphabetized
the career cards put out in alphabetical order with advanced careers removed
a couple of skills lists (you can find them on Hammerzeit; the file is called Master Skill List)
some kind of character creation worksheet (I have one on Hammerzeit here called "Pen and Paper Character Creation Worksheet" that I created for GMs running multiple people through creation at the same time without having multiple books)
your own ToA to look up the starting stats for each race and looking up details about items and wealth
one character sheet per player for after s/he has finalized his/her stats and items

I let everyone pick both race and class, so my players hashed out who would take what by looking at races on the creation worksheets, then picking careers that went with their races. I gave them starting stats for their class, then the worksheet walked them through spending creation points. I had the skills list handy so they could choose those, and the piles of action cards out so that they could pass them around and take what they liked.

I don't worry overmuch about my gaming set getting messed upI can always buy another one!so everyone just uses the cards right on the table. Of course, we also put our drinks and snacks on TV tables next to the main gaming table to minimize disasters.

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You should take the time to guide (or just double-check) each player as they spend their creation points. All three of my players went over budget when allowed to spend their points on their own.

When my group made characters, I let them know that the order in which they chose their cards could be important, since there are almost no duplicates. I also told them that the system seemed to be set up that way to encourage diversity, and they were hip to that. So one player chose their career first, another player got first pick of the actions, and another player got first pick of the talents.

I agree that it's a good idea to take out the basic action cards and stack them into three piles before play.

It's also helpful to guide your players to actions that are based on skills they've trained in, since that will help narrow their choices.

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As an old experience GM, I respect WFRP3's designer's will to promote diversity through the action card deck (one card of each). My advices :

1) Basic actions cards are merely guides to the basics rules. You've got 3 pack of them in the corebox and 1 more in the adventurer toolkit. Keep one pack for you (GM) to know these basics attacks, and to use it with your NPCs, and share these between a player and his chair neighboor.

2) Don't share any other  talents, careers and actions cards. They are intended to be rare. A large number of players is a good opportunity to let you all discover the whole game.

3) Don't let them be rulelawyer... so make them choose their careers/talents/actions cards without showing them the cards. Just tell'em the title of the cards. I did that and it's a lot of fun (of course, they may switch one of two of these after the first session :) )

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willmanx said:

 Keep one pack for you (GM) to know these basics attacks, and to use it with your NPCs, and share these between a player and his chair neighboor.

Yes I couldn't emphasize this more myself. I went through several games wondering how come my players seemed to cleave through their enemies so easily until it dawned upon me that these enemies are able to Dodge and Parry as well. Doh! That's the problem when the gamemaster isn't given a set of basic action cards for him/her to use. After that realisation, I scanned in all the basic cards into a single sheet such that I may refer to them at will.

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@Llanwyre: That chargen worksheet is brilliant. I don't think I'll be going through a mass chargen session again anytime soon, but if I was, this would definitely come in handy. I'd add the starting weath items/money amounts to it along with the starting characteristics by race I think.

Only wizards need to see spells, only priests need to see invocations and then only from their respective Order/Faith. That's half the action cards right there that can be kept out of the way for most players. Sort the other action cards into 3 piles, melee, ranged, and support. Up to 3 players can look through the different piles simultaneously. Same for Talents which should be sorted by type. Equipment is where people will get bogged down if you don't have at least a couple copies of the equipment lists to share around.

Speaking of equipment, make sure the players are aware of the encumbrance rules. Most starting characters can't carry much more than starting armor, weapons, and a few incidentals without suffering fatigue. Usually it's hand weapon/armor/shield, hand weapon/ranged weapon/armor, or two hand weapons/armor and they're done. Make sure they aren't trying to load up on multiple back up weapons, camping gear, climbing gear, cooking gear, a weeks rations, and similar items that they may be used to taking in other fantasy RPGs. Unless they are going off on an expedition into the mountains they won't need all that stuff anyway. Coaching Inns line the Empire's roads when traveling between towns, unless you go by boat, in which case you are basically on a floating Inn.

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mac40k said:

@Llanwyre: That chargen worksheet is brilliant. I don't think I'll be going through a mass chargen session again anytime soon, but if I was, this would definitely come in handy. I'd add the starting weath items/money amounts to it along with the starting characteristics by race I think.

 

Thanks so much! I might add the wealth stuff this weekend and update it. I had left it off because I didn't want my players marching off and choosing their own items without my guidance, but it certainly would make it easier under most circumstances.

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