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It was really insightful though. Some good questions got through. I got to ask what constitutes a buff to a card, and essentially their requirement is that it is a card that comes with a rules insert... a weird requirement...

 

guess all our dead cards are going to stay dead.

Edited by Kdubb

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3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Why would they buff a card that we already have?
Cant sell a buffed existing card. But you can sell a "replacement" card (expertise vs marksmanship....)

Yep, they said that as well essentially.

Made me pretty sad. I would much rather have a printable set of 50 cards with errata to make them usable instead of 50 dead cards that will never see play.

 

Sad to see money is a driving factor for not fixing the cards.

Edited by Kdubb

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10 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

in the end, theyre a business.

Their product is a game rather than selling sandwiches and smoothies or groceries, but still a business.

Understandable, but sometimes a company's value is built on doing the right thing for the customer instead of what is right for the bottom line.

How awesome would it be if FFG just said once a year "hey, so these are the cards we got wrong. Since we messed up, they are available to be printed with corrected text to make them usable."

 

My loyalty would be sky high if they did that for me.

Edited by Kdubb

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Sadly the logistics of that translates into hundreds and thousands of dollars of investment from them for very little return. Yes they could sell the card packs but that might be met with backlash. Plus now you have ways of getting cards cheaper. Instead of buying a Raider for $80 (or however much it is) you can get a card pack for $5. It undermines the value of their existing products.

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13 minutes ago, Ebak said:

Sadly the logistics of that translates into hundreds and thousands of dollars of investment from them for very little return. Yes they could sell the card packs but that might be met with backlash. Plus now you have ways of getting cards cheaper. Instead of buying a Raider for $80 (or however much it is) you can get a card pack for $5. It undermines the value of their existing products.

Ya that is probably right. Giving the players the cards for free would be a bit much, so having a purchased copy of the card for tournament play may be necessary, and just have the errata printed out card as well ready (similar to what players do with unofficial promos at tournaments).

I don't think it would be awful to buff cards with this in place. I dislike the "we will just make a card that's the same but better" idea because not only does it mean I have dead cards, it means the replacement cards are taking up the space of what would otherwise be totally new designs.

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29 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

The bigger issue is that the more cards they straight up change in order to buff (or nerf), the more people are buying new ships without knowing about said changes and playing them wrong.

Exactly.  IHMO, it would be better to have a new/different card than an old/FAQed card to upgrade an ability to prevent unnecessary errata.

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

Made me pretty sad. I would much rather have a printable set of 50 cards with errata to make them usable instead of 50 dead cards that will never see play.

Sad to see money is a driving factor for not fixing the cards.

They are fixing the cards.  The process just creates a new card.  And I would rather have 50 new correctly printed cards than 50 old cards that don't even have the rules on them anymore.

50 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

it means the replacement cards are taking up the space of what would otherwise be totally new designs.

True, that this is a concern.

1 hour ago, Vineheart01 said:

Their product is a game rather than selling sandwiches and smoothies or groceries, but still a business.

Look on the bright side.  Sandwiches and smoothies just become a BM.  You'll always have your cards (or little-bitty stiff pieces of TP).

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42 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

The bigger issue is that the more cards they straight up change in order to buff (or nerf), the more people are buying new ships without knowing about said changes and playing them wrong.

I actually don't care about this myself, but I can see this as a concern. In my mind though, if you are playing casual, then you probably aren't super worried about the deep balance of the game and really don't even need to care about erratas if you never happen upon them, and if you are playing competitive, you are likely going to be aware of the changes already, or be delightfully surprised by them (the buffs at least).

 

All in all, I just dislike that there are dead cards. There is no elegant solution, but erratas to the heavy scyk title and Cluster mines gave me hope for more of that, but it seems that won't be the case, which just makes me a little bummed.

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A lot of new players showing up tot heir first tournament may well not know about changes to existing cards.  Once you know about the FAQ it's easy to keep up with it, but if it's your first tournament and you've never looked before, it could come as quite a suprirse if you show up to a tournament and your stuff doesn't work the way you thought it does.

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10 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I actually don't care about this myself, but I can see this as a concern. In my mind though, if you are playing casual, then you probably aren't super worried about the deep balance of the game and really don't even need to care about erratas if you never happen upon them, and if you are playing competitive, you are likely going to be aware of the changes already, or be delightfully surprised by them (the buffs at least).

All in all, I just dislike that there are dead cards. There is no elegant solution, but erratas to the heavy scyk title and Cluster mines gave me hope for more of that, but it seems that won't be the case, which just makes me a little bummed.

Not nice.

I play casual all the time, and I care about the official version of the game.  I play with the timing chart at hand.  I have the FAQ printed.  I don't deserve a subpar version of the game just because I can't call over a TO or I won't get my undies in a bunch if we have to make a best-guess rules decision.  I want to play the game the "right way."

Dead elements are a part of any game that grows, and moreover (just like Mindlink), "dead" elements can reanimate.

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4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Not nice.

I play casual all the time, and I care about the official version of the game.  I play with the timing chart at hand.  I have the FAQ printed.  I don't deserve a subpar version of the game just because I can't call over a TO or I won't get my undies in a bunch if we have to make a best-guess rules decision.  I want to play the game the "right way."

Dead elements are a part of any game that grows, and moreover (just like Mindlink), "dead" elements can reanimate.

You've been writing some good stuff recently it seems. 

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1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

The bigger issue is that the more cards they straight up change in order to buff (or nerf), the more people are buying new ships without knowing about said changes and playing them wrong.

... But unless they're at a tournament, why's that matter?

It's like a beneficial Catch-22 ... you only must care about corrected text on cards if you play compeitively, and if you play competitively you almost certainly are already aware of corrected text on cards.

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Just now, Darth Meanie said:

Not nice.

I play casual all the time, and I care about the official version of the game.  I play with the timing chart at hand.  I have the FAQ printed.  I don't deserve a subpar version of the game just because I can't call over a TO or I won't get my undies in a bunch if we have to make a best-guess rules decision.  I want to play the game the "right way."

Dead elements are a part of any game that grows, and moreover (just like Mindlink), "dead" elements can reanimate.

I guess I should have lumped it together as "casual players who aren't worried about the deeper balance of the game" more precisely, as those who won't even bother with the errata, because they aren't even really aware of it in many cases even now.

Obviously, you are not one of these people. You play casual, but you do have a care for the deeper balance and are HIGHLY aware of any changes being made in the game (as your heavy participation on these forums indicates). I was more meaning to reference those who will pick up the game every now and then with their 1 or 2 buddies who learned the game with them, none of which who look at anything pertaining to the game other than the stuff they've purchased, and are fine with the game as it is out of the box and have no real desire to dig any deeper than that. I believe a healthy portion of players enjoy the game this way. My brother is one of these people, and he enjoys the game plenty.

 

And mindlink was never dead. I think you maybe mean Deadeye? 

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10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I play casual all the time, and I care about the official version of the game.  I play with the timing chart at hand.  I have the FAQ printed.  I don't deserve a subpar version of the game just because I can't call over a TO or I won't get my undies in a bunch if we have to make a best-guess rules decision.  I want to play the game the "right way."

I completely get this.  I really do.

But you play casually, and you're aware ... because you care about it.

If you don't care about it, and you're not aware of it, why does it matter?

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13 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

... But unless they're at a tournament, why's that matter?

It's like a beneficial Catch-22 ... you only must care about corrected text on cards if you play compeitively, and if you play competitively you almost certainly are already aware of corrected text on cards.

As I already pointed out, plenty of people aren't going to know about or have looked up the FAQ before they show up for a tournament for the first time.

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3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

As I already pointed out, plenty of people aren't going to know about or have looked up the FAQ before they show up for a tournament for the first time.

You really think so?

I don't claim to know the opposite, but I would be genuinely surprised if it were "plenty of people."  I've met dozens and dozens of new people at tournaments, and plenty who weren't aware of specific rulings in the FAQ (and not-so-new players, too, including me once or twice), but I have never met anybody who wasn't aware that it existed and effectively existed as an extension of the rules for tournament play.

You know what?  I think it's an interesting question to ask every registrant at a few big tournaments.

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6 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

You really think so?

I don't claim to know the opposite, but I would be genuinely surprised if it were "plenty of people."  I've met dozens and dozens of new people at tournaments, and plenty who weren't aware of specific rulings in the FAQ (and not-so-new players, too, including me once or twice), but I have never met anybody who wasn't aware that it existed and effectively existed as an extension of the rules for tournament play.

You know what?  I think it's an interesting question to ask every registrant at a few big tournaments.

We've had several players show up at tournaments lately that were brand new to the game, having played no more than a few games ever before coming.  Those kinds of players aren't going to know the FAQ before showing up.  I had never seen the FAQ before when I went to my first tournament.

At bigger tournaments (especially ones you have to travel to) most people probably know about the FAQ and are aware of anything that would affect the cards they're using.  At a smaller local tournament though?  Far more likely to have people that are unaware.

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Just now, VanderLegion said:

At bigger tournaments (especially ones you have to travel to) most people probably know about the FAQ and are aware of anything that would affect the cards they're using.  At a smaller local tournament though?  Far more likely to have people that are unaware.

That's fair.  So somebody get organized to poll attendees of the SCs or smaller then.

I volunteer -- oh, let's just randomly pick -- Dee Yun.  Get on that, Dragon.

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