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thestggrwng

unguided rockets and the Tie Bomber

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I think the list is going to be quite strong.

I have been running 5x mangler M3a's even before the +1 health fix (that buff was insane... ) and doing extremely well (winning kit tournaments) the list is feared locally as it should be (used to absolutely eat dengaroo for lunch).

The bomber list really brings more of the same, its downsides compared to the M3a list is you cant fire your 3 dice attack after k-turning,  your movement dial is a little worse, spending your focus on d-fence costs you more offence, and less sweet sweet crits. However you gain 2 hit points per ship potentially increasing that first round staying power.

I do not know if its better then the 5x m3a mangler list but i am sure game to try.

I am going to go on the record now saying its a strong list, and one i plan to crush people with. This list, like the m3a list, will devastate 2 ship lists they simply do not have to total damage or hit points to compete against this. If this list is flown by a competent pilot it will wreck things.

People who say this is a bad list have no idea what they are talking about. Fear my bomber swarm.

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I think the 5x bombers with Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame is flat out better than BBBBZ. BBBBZ was really good for a long time considering how fast the meta changes now. Even though the bombers are better, it probably won't be seeing the top tables as jousting just doesn't work as well as it use to.

A bomber with unguided at 18 points is possibly the best ship in the 15-20 point range, so it will make an excellent filler. Unguided fits extremely well with Deathfire & Tomax as well. It will be fun to find out if unguided rockets are better than a concussion missile with Long-Range Scanners as I have experience running a pair of those.

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2 hours ago, thestggrwng said:

How is a focus hard to secure on a PS 2 ship?  You move first.  you can plan out your move to make sure you have a focus.  It is a tie fighter with a 1 forward making it especially good at moving up and taking a focus and shooting you.  It has the best K turn, the 5K.  Giving it plenty of distance on the turn around and then can start slow rolling again pumping rockets into you.  Did any of you play Tie Swarm?

I've been watching this list in league play dominate.  

This, I hope it works as well as you state; I really do. Epic-ly it will be a solid 20 point ship; but on a 3x3, um....I'll reserve my right to be pleasantly surprised; how's that?

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6 hours ago, wurms said:

5 Tie bombers with guided rockets is not the answer. Their dial is crap and you will only have a focus like 30% of the time on them. 

Their dial is pretty good - they have 2/3rds of the best moves in the game -  1 forward and 5k-turn.   They have a fast turn + barrel roll if they need a tight option.  

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It's pretty good compared to 5 strikers

3 attack dice with LWF but two less health for around the same cost. This is considered to be a solid base stat line (not too prominent in current meta though) 

they also don't have TL bUt do have evade though and an arguably better dial and way more maneuverability with their title.

1 hour ago, Ravncat said:

Their dial is pretty good - they have 2/3rds of the best moves in the game -  1 forward and 5k-turn.   They have a fast turn + barrel roll if they need a tight option.  

If you only have one in the list (named or EPT pilot) you could equip twin ion engines for an even better dial. Or take Tomax with adrenaline rush and now your dial is all white/green and your crazy maneuverable.

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TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
     Unguided Rockets (2)
     Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
     Unguided Rockets (2)
     Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
     Unguided Rockets (2)
     Lightweight Frame (2)
Upsilon-class Shuttle: · Major Stridan (32)
     Fire Control System (2)
     · Kylo Ren (3)
     Operations Specialist (3)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

 

What if you modified the list a bit to include Major Stridan with an Operations Specialist?

I threw FCS and Kylo on because there were still 5 points and I figured, why not?

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30 minutes ago, magwraith said:

TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
     Unguided Rockets (2)
     Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
     Unguided Rockets (2)
     Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
     Unguided Rockets (2)
     Lightweight Frame (2)
Upsilon-class Shuttle: · Major Stridan (32)
     Fire Control System (2)
     · Kylo Ren (3)
     Operations Specialist (3)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

 

What if you modified the list a bit to include Major Stridan with an Operations Specialist?

I threw FCS and Kylo on because there were still 5 points and I figured, why not?

You could use those 5 points for general Hux, that way they save a focus for themselves/defence but without being able to freely pair that with TL it's not quite that valuable...

Or you could go for Captain Yorr and Inspiring Rcruit to boost the maneuverability of your bombers

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4 minutes ago, Quadjumper King said:

You could use those 5 points for general Hux, that way they save a focus for themselves/defence but without being able to freely pair that with TL it's not quite that valuable...

Or you could go for Captain Yorr and Inspiring Rcruit to boost the maneuverability of your bombers

I considered Hux after posting the list and think he would fit better than Kylo for sure.

I think that would make the bombers more flexible in being able to reposition and still get off their rockets. With Hux providing a focus at least one of them will have a focus to get their rockets off because of Fanatical Devotion even if they 5k that turn.

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Well again to point out, The tie bomber with light weight frame is cheaper, tougher and with rockets is harder hitting than any 20 point tempest you can build.  So what is your point?

Well, the Tempest Squadron Pilot is 21 points. So that's a relatively unfair comparison. :ph34r:

The Rocket Bomber is something I'm looking forward to trying. It's the toughest Heavy Swarm (5 x mid-weight, 3-dice attack ship) currently available:

  • Cartel Marauder - Vaksai, XX-23 S-Thread Tracers, Inertial Dampeners, Munitions Failsafe, Guidance Chips
  • Cartel Spacer - Heavy Scyk, Mangler Cannon
  • Zealous Recruit
  • Alpha Squadron Pilot - Autothrusters
  • Scarif Defender - Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame
  • Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Unguided Rockets, Lightweight Frame

 

The TIE bomber is tough, even if you plan to hold on to the focus token. Alternatively, you could turn one ship into a TIE shuttle to support - swapping Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame for Operations Specialist and Intelligence Agent.

1 hour ago, Oberron said:

TAP-Sienar Test pilot x5

Cruise missiles x5

title x5

chips x5

Looks interesting (and pleasantly capable in close), but suffers from the classic "low pilot skill need target lock" problem when trying to deploy an alpha strike - especially one needing as obviously telegraphed an "attack run" as cruise missiles. By comparison, you can plug a pair of nasty opening salvo boys into a TIE bomber squad, because they can equip Cruise Missiles and Long Range Scanners (saving a point) or Cruise Missiles, Thread Tracers and Guidance Chips:

  • Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Unguided Rockets, Lightweight Frame
  • Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Unguided Rockets, Lightweight Frame
  • Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Unguided Rockets, Lightweight Frame

and

  • Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Cruise Missiles, Long Range Scanners
  • Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Cruise Missiles, Long Range Scanners

 

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To be honest I'm wondering if the Unguided Rockets bomber might work well in a mixed heavy swarm.

  • TIE Strikers (Scarif/Ailerons/Lightweight) are very manoeuvrable at medium range - they like big, sweeping banks - but at close range their low minimum speed and bump-prone k-turn/segnors can be a problem, and at long range lightweight frame provides no protection whilst massed fire gets diluted by enemy range combat bonuses.
  • TIE Bombers (Scimitar/Unguided/Lightweight) are not especially manoeuvrable but can fly slow. They don't get range combat bonuses, but unguided rockets means the enemy doesn't either, and they're tough enough to face most opponents head-on.
  • TIE Interceptors (Alpha/Autothrusters) are nasty close in with their awesome dial, and irritatingly hard to kill at range 3 for their cost given their native agility 3 and autothrusters

It seems like a mix of the three (I'm not sure on proportions) might make for a nice squad; bombers playing anvil to strikers or interceptors.

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I don't understand how people say it has a terrible dial.   I think it's got a lot of great moves with only the 2 hard turn and K-turn red.  I think you need to use the 5 K-turn often and basically pull out of combat for a turn, but if you are smart about it, then it's not a bad move.  The 5 distance usually gets you out of everyone's range and if you do it with most of your list at one time that it's not leaving your other ships vulnerable.   If you are used to knife fighting or high agile ships you might need practice to figure out, but it's not a bad dial.  If had 2 Bombers hunt an Ace A-wing with PTL down and win that game vs tournament level player.  

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21 hours ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

The problem with these kinds of lists isn't the initial joust. It's the clean-up phase in the endgame. You can't really expect a non-maneuverable, non-turret, low PS, single-action, single-arc ship like this to win out against turrets and aces.  If they don't completely obliterate half or more of the enemy forces in the opening joust, I'd expect the bombers to lose hard.

I wonder how many players have actually flown these sort of joust lists against Tier 1 lists in a serious environment.  I suspect not many since it's an expensive list to assemble. The margin of error with jousters these days is *very* small. If you fall behind on the damage race it's pretty much over since you only have a limited number of tricks  you can pull off and your ability to do surprising things diminishes quickly as you lose ships. You end up in a situation where you can't salvage a win no matter how well you fly simply because your individual ships are so outclassed in terms of capabilities.

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2 minutes ago, That One Guy said:

Haven't bothered to check the cost yet, but what about Gamma Vets with Determination? PS 5 is a nice place to be...

Gamma Vet is 19, adding Determination puts them at 20. So if you want them to do any damage, you're going to have put other upgrades on them, pushing the cost closer to 25. You can do a four Gamma Vet alpha strike with Cruise Missiles or something like that. Or four with Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame. But either way, you're getting one less body on the board, so it's a pretty risky trade-off.

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14 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

Gamma Vet is 19, adding Determination puts them at 20. So if you want them to do any damage, you're going to have put other upgrades on them, pushing the cost closer to 25. You can do a four Gamma Vet alpha strike with Cruise Missiles or something like that. Or four with Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame. But either way, you're getting one less body on the board, so it's a pretty risky trade-off.

And if you do that you want crack shot to make that damage count.

 

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7 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

Gamma Vet is 19, adding Determination puts them at 20. So if you want them to do any damage, you're going to have put other upgrades on them, pushing the cost closer to 25. You can do a four Gamma Vet alpha strike with Cruise Missiles or something like that. Or four with Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame. But either way, you're getting one less body on the board, so it's a pretty risky trade-off.

Yeah, it feels like it would be entirely dependent on what you faced. If the ps 5 let's you shoot before something, it was good.

For me, I've had Determination really pay off about one game in three. For some people that will be good enough. Anyone who flies Bombers knows that sometimes you just get that one tenacious little guy who refuses to quit. Again, can't check the points but you could try splitting the squad with three vets and one scimitar, and make room for a few seismics to keep your opponent from having an easy mop up.

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