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Dawn of Rebellion Sourcebook

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1 hour ago, whafrog said:

Well, at some level nobody needs any talents, and everything can be narrative.  I think the game works best when the mechanics underscore the result and you don't have to invent a rationalization.  Once can be an accident, sure, but repetition suggests control...in game terms, an XP investment.

In the case of Maul this gets especially complicated.

As just a baseline NPC issue, NPCs will always be built to the writers perspectives and in general should be tailored to individual encounters. Any NPC could need any skill or talent depending on how the GM intents to use them in a given encounter. I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't really remark on details, but I think in this instance I'd have to insist on not looking at everything Maul has ever done, but looking at what Maul does in the presence of the players in the campaign this stat block was designed for. Yes in Clone War Maul may have been able to shoot fireballs out of his eyes, and lightning bolts out of his... donkey. But if the stats were supposed to be a representation of Rebels Maul, then his numbers only need to reflect what he did in Rebels in the presence of the players. (Another good point of reference here is Hondo, who was a dramatically different character [as far as what his build would need to be] in Rebels than he was in Clone Wars).

With Maul specifically we also have the issue presented here, where  Sincereagape's examples actually show Maul fighting other NPCs, not players. A situation like this, if the players were even privy to it at all, would likely be presented as a narrative cut-away, in which case Maul's talents are irrelevant. He did what the GM said he did and that's it. 

Now.. an alternative explanation is those were breakout scenes where the players got to play the bad guys and fill in some cut-away activity by playing it rather than by just having it narrated (a cool idea, though I've found it challenging to implement depending on the players you're working with). In this case the NPC stats are pointless as well, since he'd likely be assembled using Player Character construction options.

 

I think a lot of it comes down to your individual view on game structure and how it relates to the setting and existing lore.

If you see the setting as persistent and something your players are participants in, then yeah, a long-running character like Maul is gonna be a beast by the time you hit Rebels.

If you see the setting as more of a "writer's bible" establishing history and standards, with your players being the stars of their own show, then what Maul and Pre Visla did back in the clone wars in the privacy of their own home is their business, and you only care about what Maul needs to do here and now in relation to your players and their story...

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15 hours ago, KRKappel said:

Could these not be explained just as easily as Maul's defense, soak, or missed attacks, from a narrative perspective? Does he NEED the talent?

Of course Maul does not need the talent. 

From a in game mechanics storytelling purpose, Maul's statistics written in Dawn of Rebellion RAW (Without reflect) does make a difference.

Building off the events from the movie SOLO, my group finally encountered Maul a few weeks ago in one of our sessions.  3 out of the 5 PCs were fleeing from Maul, trying to make it to their freighter after rescuing some captives from a Crimson Dawn compound.  The team's sharpshooter had stayed behind on the freighter and was providing cover fire for the group.  I believe the Sharpshooter had an agility of 3 and a heavy ranged skill of four at the time.  Even with adversary 3 and with a setback due to vision/darkness he was able to hit Maul at hard and daunting difficulties. 

I believe in total, the sharpshooter hit Maul 2 times for a total of 7-10 damage? 

This bought the group enough time to escape from Maul while the Sharpshooter leaped from his sniper's position onto the loading ramp of their G-9 rigger while it was in mid-air.

If Maul did have the reflect talent, this encounter would have turned out differently. 

Maul has a total soak value of 5.  (Brawn 4 - with cybernetic legs that adds plus one brawn + heavy clothing) with zero defense (Makes sense if this is Rebels Maul). 

 

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2 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

In the case of Maul this gets especially complicated.

As just a baseline NPC issue, NPCs will always be built to the writers perspectives and in general should be tailored to individual encounters. Any NPC could need any skill or talent depending on how the GM intents to use them in a given encounter. I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't really remark on details, but I think in this instance I'd have to insist on not looking at everything Maul has ever done, but looking at what Maul does in the presence of the players in the campaign this stat block was designed for. Yes in Clone War Maul may have been able to shoot fireballs out of his eyes, and lightning bolts out of his... donkey. But if the stats were supposed to be a representation of Rebels Maul, then his numbers only need to reflect what he did in Rebels in the presence of the players. (Another good point of reference here is Hondo, who was a dramatically different character [as far as what his build would need to be] in Rebels than he was in Clone Wars).

With Maul specifically we also have the issue presented here, where  Sincereagape's examples actually show Maul fighting other NPCs, not players. A situation like this, if the players were even privy to it at all, would likely be presented as a narrative cut-away, in which case Maul's talents are irrelevant. He did what the GM said he did and that's it. 

Now.. an alternative explanation is those were breakout scenes where the players got to play the bad guys and fill in some cut-away activity by playing it rather than by just having it narrated (a cool idea, though I've found it challenging to implement depending on the players you're working with). In this case the NPC stats are pointless as well, since he'd likely be assembled using Player Character construction options.

 

I think a lot of it comes down to your individual view on game structure and how it relates to the setting and existing lore.

If you see the setting as persistent and something your players are participants in, then yeah, a long-running character like Maul is gonna be a beast by the time you hit Rebels.

If you see the setting as more of a "writer's bible" establishing history and standards, with your players being the stars of their own show, then what Maul and Pre Visla did back in the clone wars in the privacy of their own home is their business, and you only care about what Maul needs to do here and now in relation to your players and their story...

 

It is funny.  The printed version of Maul in Dawn of the Rebellion almost reflects TPM more so than TCW and Rebels. 

Edit:  Maul's statistics from Dawn of the Rebellion have ---- Maul does not have move.  Maul does not have reflect.  Maul does not have improved parry (It is still a beast in melee). 

The major aspects of this version of Maul that mirror It in Rebels is the cybernetic legs and the force power sense. 

Edited by Sincereagape
Clarified second paragraph to represent Maul in Dawn of the Rebellion.

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1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

He Force-throws a bit of random junk at the door controls that one time in Phantom Menace.

 

I know :)

 

I meant Maul does not have move in It's Dawn of the Rebellion stats :P

Maul also uses move throughout TCW and in the Rebels episode Holocrons of Fate to disable Zeb in a quick fight. 

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5 minutes ago, Sincereagape said:

I know :)

 

I meant Maul does not have move in It's Dawn of the Rebellion stats :P

Maul also uses move throughout TCW and in the Rebels episode Holocrons of Fate to disable Zeb in a quick fight. 

I took it you were listing traits of TPM Maul.

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21 minutes ago, Sincereagape said:

I know :)

 

I meant Maul does not have move in It's Dawn of the Rebellion stats :P

Maul also uses move throughout TCW and in the Rebels episode Holocrons of Fate to disable Zeb in a quick fight. 

Isn't there a breakout box that says something like everyone has move if you need them to? I don't remember exactly, but I recall its on a page with Ahsoka on it, I think on or near her stat block.

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2 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Isn't there a breakout box that says something like everyone has move if you need them to? I don't remember exactly, but I recall its on a page with Ahsoka on it, I think on or near her stat block.

Page 72.  Force Users within the Rebellion.  It specifically mentions that the box is in reference to Kannan, Ahsoka, and Ezra.  For example under abilities Ahsoka has force powers enhance, move, and sense but then only has enhance detailed under her profile.  Ezra has enhance, foresee, move, and influence.  Then only has foresee and influence detailed. 

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On 8/15/2018 at 1:14 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

Are you talking about the ship from Rebels and Rogue One, or from KotOR? If the latter: there's this. It's from the Shipyard found on This is the Blog You're Looking For. If you want the one from Rebels/Rogue One, that's on page 129 of Dawn of Rebellion

I meant the ship from rebels and rogue one, (why I called it the Sphyrna Corvette). And I know it's in the book, its just that Dawn of Rebellion isn't available on the website here or on Amazon and their aren't any shops I've found in my city that carry any of the books (aside from one that had two copies of Suns of Fortune and isn't planning on getting anything else any time soon).

I'd like to use it for the campaign I'm running. I do want to get the book eventually for the species, the Choke ability they gave Vader, etc. (don't really even have that choice right now) but I just wanted to see if anyone was willing to help me out with it's stats for the time being ?.


Thanks for wanting to help me though.

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59 minutes ago, AshleyFall said:

I'd like to use it for the campaign I'm running. I do want to get the book eventually for the species, the Choke ability they gave Vader, etc. (don't really even have that choice right now) but I just wanted to see if anyone was willing to help me out with it's stats for the time being ?.

Is it not in Oggdude's builder? Sorry, I am no my work computer right now and don't have it on here.

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5 hours ago, Andreievitch said:

Is it not in Oggdude's builder? Sorry, I am no my work computer right now and don't have it on here.

Latest version has Fully Operational, but not Dawn of Rebellion, Unlimited Power, Knights of Fate, or (obviously, since it just hit) Cyphers and Masks. Last he mentioned, OggDude didn’t even have a copy of DoR yet.

Edited by Nytwyng

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11 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Latest version has Fully Operational, but not Dawn of Rebellion, Unlimited Power, Knights of Fate, or (obviously, since it just hit) Cyphers and Masks. Last he mentioned, OggDude didn’t even have a copy of DoR yet.

Oh. I think mine has the Hammerhead because I added it. Oops, forgot. 

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Quick question:  The Padawan learner (Don't have the book right now, lending it to a friend) universal specialization does not seem to have any career skills (unless I am reading it incorrectly).  


Why would anyone want to invest in this specialization either a CC or post CC?  Other than flavor or character concept purposes.  Am I missing something?    

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27 minutes ago, Demon4x4 said:

1 Force rating? (IIRC)

Similar to both the Force Sensitive Exile and Force Sensitive Emergent universal specs. 

Leaving those three specs as the only way to get a first Force Rating point, without either starting with a F&D career, or descending to the bottom of a spec tree. 

Makes sense.  

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1 hour ago, Demon4x4 said:

Leaving those three specs as the only way to get a first Force Rating point, without either starting with a F&D career, or descending to the bottom of a spec tree. 

And in the later case, they still wouldn't gain the Force Rating. The FR talent is a Force talent, and you can only gain the benefit of a Force talent if you already have a Force Rating. Which means the universal Force specs or starting out with an F&D career is the only way.

Edited by kaosoe

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5 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

And in the latter case, they still wouldn't gain the Force Rating. The FR talent is a Force talent, and you can only gain the benefit of a Force talent if you already have a Force Rating. Which means the universal Force specs or starting out with an F&D career is the only way.

Ah, I missed that detail, thanks. 

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11 hours ago, Sincereagape said:

Quick question:  The Padawan learner (Don't have the book right now, lending it to a friend) universal specialization does not seem to have any career skills (unless I am reading it incorrectly).  


Why would anyone want to invest in this specialization either a CC or post CC?  Other than flavor or character concept purposes.  Am I missing something?    

If you want to get all the mods on a lightsaber crystal, you kind of need secrets of the jedi + improved secrets of the jedi to make the difficulties doable.

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On 2/19/2018 at 11:59 AM, Nytwyng said:

Wow. That is quite a change in philosophy for the line. Is there any sort of disclaimer like there is for Lando in Jewel of Yavin?

Yes! There is a text box on the bottom left of page 5 entitled "Using Iconic PCs."

Quote: "...full, definitive profiles are beyond the scope of Dawn of Rebellion. GMs are encouraged to modify..."

Personally, most of the profiles are in the general ballpark vis-a-vis my own design sensibilities and preferred power-levels and style of play.

For instance, I would use Vader mostly as-is in my campaign and would only add Draw Nearer, Drive Back, and Imperial Valor.

Others prefer more boucoup godly write-ups and the book's position translates as "More power to you!"

I feel they handled this aspect very well.

Edited by Vondy

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On 3/22/2018 at 8:51 AM, Khazadune said:

I get that it may not be your cup of tea but I have to say I think it’s amazing to have this. Imagine, there are stats for Inquisitors like Fifth, Seventh and Grand that we can have show up and try to kill our Force user? Perfect. They have stats for the characters from Rebels? Amazing, now we can have camels with those who are a part of one of the most influential rebel cells! Finally gotten the attention of the Empire in full for that amazing thing your group did? Well maybe Vader or Thrawn are dispatched to deal with you. Oh, your campaign has reached the battle of Yavin? Awesome, take part in it as one small element of the larger battle. Wait, so I can be at one of the momentous battles in history and still have my game be a seperate thing... um sign me up. I don’t see why getting stats for these things is anything but the most amazing thing that FFG has done since the CRB. Oh, and all that takes up about 10 pages, which is also split with details on Planets, locations and organizations, equipment and ships? Yeah, I might buy this book twice just because it’s that great. 

Personally, stats for camels are indispensable for any Star Wars game.

I know you meant "cameos," but I couldn't resist. 😈

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