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Was it a **** move not letting opponent change his dial turn 1?

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16 minutes ago, Toqtamish said:

If you reveal a red while stressed you do a white 2 straight. 

That's post FAQ after they added ways to stress someone between setting dials and activation, forcing a stressed red. @Superstrength79 is technically correct in that its what it says in the rules, but the FAQ changed it.

Edited by kris40k

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3 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Completely disagree.  Events should be welcoming and inclusive at all levels.

How would I feel?  Like I didn't win enough games to make the cut and the guy who played better got in instead.  Period.  How would I feel if he was 9th because I screwed him over a clearly accidental dial at a meaningless point?  Pretty *** about myself.

 

Again and again I come back to that it's the more successful players who would let the dial be changed.  That's a clear pattern.

#stealthbrag  #selfaggrandizingnonsense        What a bunch of hooey. You can enforce rules and be welcoming and inclusive. And in your example, you didn't screw him over. He did that to himself. It's not a meaningless point if he can fly off the board.  Fly on the edge at your own risk. A person isn't "playing better" if they make those kinds of mistakes. Unless we want to call round one (or any round where shots can't fired) the "do whatever round." 

 

That said, I don't think it's a big deal to let him change the dial, either. A person could make the claim that the dude who placed higher because he was granted a mulligan on his dumb mistake should maybe feel bad. To me, that's just as valid a claim as saying the OP should feel bad. Maybe you want to play the whole list and see what happens; that's cool. Maybe you think that you wouldn't ask for a do-over if you made that mistake; that's cool, too. To be honest, I'm not sure what I would do in that moment. 

But to say that "you must be a poodoo player" if you would have done what the OP did is hogwash. 

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1 hour ago, Toqtamish said:

My daughter is 10 and plays and we have 3 other kids that play locally. If they fly off they learn from it. Same as anyone else. 

Ty sir, this happened to myself recently. I did my best to be as nice as possible since this wasn't my child i also explained why i did this in a way he may understand yet fair at the same time. You know how sometimes situations like this has to be handled delicately and this was my intent.

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I think I would have let him change to a 3 turn the opposite direction. However not allowing him to do so, especially if he immediatly asked him to do so, does not make you a jerk. And I know by experience that opponents, even friendly ones, not letting you fix your mistakes really makes you stronger, as this is basically how I was trained when I started playing. Nowadays, I never ever do any of the mistakes I would have done in the past, or the ones I might still do if my opponents had let me fix these mistakes. In this case, your opponent will learn to pay attention to the direction of his manoeuvres.

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I've had this come up twice on the casual weekend tournaments. 
First time was a turn one and I put the maneuver the wrong way. He didn't let me change it, I think that was like the 3rd time I had been to a store to play. 
Personally I wouldn't do that to a person but it just means from then on I will never give that person the tiniest bit of slack.

Second time, again a casual store tournament but it was the final game and I dialed a hard the wrong way. Moved it and he pointed out that it was the other direction. My ship was the first to move so it wasn't reactionary to some new information, clearly a mistake. 
Again, opponent didn't let it slide. Which is fine, within the rules etc again, that just means that opponent is now in that special circles of opponents that get 0 leniency on rules from that point. 
No need to harbor ill will on someone that doesn't let you fix a mistake but expect that person to have some feelings towards your sportsmanship.

Mistakes happen, deal with them within the rules or how you would want to be treated. Both will have consequences in the future.

I've let people change their dials before, but never had anyone let me when I effed up. Other than for those individuals I wouldn't change how I treat others because of it. 

 

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3 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

Personally I'd find it motivating and would take great pleasure in beating him with 2/3 of a list. Which considering the matchup in question, really isn't outside the realms of possibility.

I feel the same, but I fully understand why somebody might not want to play a game against an opponent they think is not a nice person.

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1 hour ago, hawk32 said:

I'm amazed at the number of people who would rather win because their opponent screwed up than because they were the better player.

That's pretty much how you win most games of xwing, make less screw ups than the opponent. The other part is removing as much randomness as possible.

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1 hour ago, hawk32 said:

I'm amazed at the number of people who would rather win because their opponent screwed up than because they were the better player.

Well technically he did win because he was the better player. He didn't make a critical mistake on turn 1. :D

He did nothing wrong. If your opponent flies off the board he looses his ship. If it's casual sure let him change the dial, but this was a tournament. 

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I am really feeling like pushing back on this 'fly casual' militancy. The OP did nothing wrong. It's not a D move in a tournament to expect your opponents dialed maneuvers to be the ones they execute even if this puts one of their ships off the board, even on turn one.

Now I can see where some would feel generous and would offer to allow their opponent to correct an obvious mistake and that's fine FOR YOU. It's also fine to call over the TO and watch Assaj go careening off the battlefield. 

This is in the context of a tournament and the players need to bring their A game or lose. That's competitive X wing. I personally play mostly beer and pretzels (or juice box and pretzels with my kid) and in a casual game you'd have to be a special kind of jerk to not allow your opponent to fix a mistake in that setting. 

Now even in casual, after a few turns in, you need to get your dials in order and a mistake will cost you. No backsies! 

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6 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

 

If my opponent screws up a maneuver, I'll tell them straight up, "No, I am not going to let *you* change the maneuver, but, if you want, *I* will pick a new maneuver for you that doesn't send you off the board." Then I'd pick something like a K-turn that left him pointing the wrong way and stressed, or something that put him on a rock. Then he still gets a bit of a penalty for his mistake, but one that he could recover from. 

 

The problem is that your solution is against the rules. 

No matter what fair play/casual play/gentleman spirit may dictate, nothing anywhere in the rules allow for anything but letting the set dial dictate the move.

Yes it sucks but its a mistake you will only ever make once if you learn it he hard way.

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There are times I'd ask a player if they are sure about something before allowing them to pass the next step.  Someone setting up facing off the board I'll probably ask them about that before the next ship is placed.  If someone is skipping a trigger such as the chance to take an action I'll ask for confirmation that they are passing on that opportunity.  However there are some things that are just beyond your ability to foresee or question at the appropriate time and the time to question a dial setting would be when it is set and not after it is revealed.

 

2 hours ago, hawk32 said:

I'm amazed at the number of people who would rather win because their opponent screwed up than because they were the better player.

Isn't that how a "better player" is defined?  While random dice can affect all sorts of things the person who screws up less is generally the better player.  Besides, just allowing your opponent to fly off a ship of the board isn't an automatic win for you in most cases; it may make it easier but perhaps that opponent was setting himself up for a real challenge of coming back from behind.

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14 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Also, the amount of salt over the guy immediately conceding is a bit odd.

It's not odd, if you think about it.  The type of player who would force him to fly off in the first round -- "hear the lamentations of their women" -- is exactly the type of player who would enjoy being on the "winning" side of the subsequent full-strength to crippled thrashing that results.  Where's the fun in the other guy's saying, "Oh, well, huh.  Guess I'll head out for a beer."  There's no hearing lamentations in that!

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Personally, a victory like that doesn't fulfill me in the least.

When I'm playing X wing -and specially in tournaments- I strive for competition, challenge and a good time.

I'd rather lose 100 intense matches, than passing one hour in a chair, doing nothing, having won for a mistake like that.

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5 hours ago, hawk32 said:

I'm amazed at the number of people who would rather win because their opponent screwed up than because they were the better player.

So I assume you offer your opponents a redo every single time they make a less than perfect decision? Because if not, I have news for you: your wins are at least partially thanks to your opponent screwing up.

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Netlister screwed up turn one? I wouldn't have even called for a judge.

 

Edit - upon further reading, the OP didn't seem to be a jerk about anything. The opponent to OP /ragequit after /screwupofepicproportions. 

I've flown a ship off the board once in tournaments, and it actually took me two turns to do it. One turn my decimator was facing me, and I dialed in a left (for me) when what I needed was a right (for me). That didn't take the ship off the board, but it was so close that I didn't have a maneuver that would save me next turn. My opponent held me to that maneuver, and I paid for it in MOV (though it was late game, and I still went on to win). I haven't screwed up like that in a tourney since.

 

Edited by JasonCole
Moar opinionz.

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9 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

So I assume you offer your opponents a redo every single time they make a less than perfect decision? Because if not, I have news for you: your wins are at least partially thanks to your opponent screwing up.

So I assume you see no difference between a Turn 1 non-tactical mistake and a Turn 10 could-be-tactical mistake?

We all know the difference.  For some of us, we're able to admit the difference, because our self-image isn't unhealthily tied up in winning this game of X-Wing, no matter what it takes.  The rest will continuing to speciously claim there is no difference.

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12 hours ago, jesper_h said:

I can't speak for anybody else. But I know that people pay attention to what successful players do and, while everyone is free to make up their own minds, I do feel there's a responsibility for those of us who have done well to project a positive attitude towards the competitive environment.

But it's all subjective. As many others have said; there's no right or wrong answer. Every player has their own personal line.

There is a right answer, it is not subjective at all. The ship performs its maneuver as dialed. There is nothing in the rules that allows for a 'take backsies' on a maneuver.

What rules justification can you make for allowing your opponent to change their dial?

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8 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

So I assume you see no difference between a Turn 1 non-tactical mistake and a Turn 10 could-be-tactical mistake?

We all know the difference.  For some of us, we're able to admit the difference, because our self-image isn't unhealthily tied up in winning this game of X-Wing, no matter what it takes.  The rest will continuing to speciously claim there is no difference.

And what's to say your "non-tactical mistake" would actually happen to be the thing that puts your demise in motion anyway?  Sometimes that little mistake early will turn into a MAJOR problem later but if you let someone correct the little mistake then it will never balloon into the big problem later.  If this were finances forgiving someone who owes you $10 that you should have invested long ago IS a lot worse than someone who shorts you $10 years later.

Is there a difference?  Sure there is.  But to say you should forgive that turn 1 mistake but still punish a turn 10 mistake is missing the point that the MISTAKE at turn 1 could easily lead to a decided difference later when the consequences are enforced.  Allowing one mistake to be corrected is just as bad as allowing the other to be corrected.

 

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50 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

So I assume you see no difference between a Turn 1 non-tactical mistake and a Turn 10 could-be-tactical mistake?

We all know the difference.  For some of us, we're able to admit the difference, because our self-image isn't unhealthily tied up in winning this game of X-Wing, no matter what it takes.  The rest will continuing to speciously claim there is no difference.

I understand there's a difference. I even have a personal policy of allowing a "grace period" for turn one for these kind of mistakes. But I understand that's my own personal policy, not supported by the rules, and I would never judge someone for following the rules in this situation.

And I still find the argument that people should feel bad for winning off the back of an opponent's mistake to be utterly ridiculous. Games are won off opposing mistakes all the time. I've never heard of someone complain about how cheap their win felt after their opponent parked on a rock in front of their entire squad on the first round of shooting.

Edited by DR4CO

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