Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Joe Censored

Was it a **** move not letting opponent change his dial turn 1?

Recommended Posts

So to be clear, in a fun game I would have let him change his dial, but this was a store champs tournament.  My opponent placed his Asajj Ventress so it was parallel with his side of the board.  I don't know if he forgot which direction he had his ship facing or if he simply dialed in the wrong direction, but Asajj was the 3rd ship to move and he reveals a 3 speed hard turn that sails Asajj right off the board.  He immediately asks me if he can change it, and instead I call for the judge.  The judge ruled the dial says the ship is flying off the board so that is that.  My opponent then immediately concedes.  I felt terrible. 

He was flying a mindlink list of Asajj, Manaroo, and Fenn against my trench crew Wedge, Luke, and Biggs.  I kinda hoped the judge would let him change his dial, but I knew the odds were against me to win this and I thought Fenn plus the Jumpmaster vs my T-65's was actually making this an even match and if I wanted a win today I needed to take any ship losses my opponent hands me.  If the judge had let him keep the ship, then fine, it wasn't me handing my opponent a free ship save, and I would have been perfectly happy, but nope.  I literally said to the judge, "I don't want to be a ****, but I do want to win this" and let my opponent take it from there with the judge.  I really thought he should play it out with me, and he still had an excellent chance to win, but when he walked away I felt like garbage for the next couple hours. 

Was I being a jerk?  Would you have let him change his dial to whatever he says he really wanted to dial in?  Or would you have called for the judge like I did?

Edited by Joe Censored

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I was in your situation, I'd have done the same thing (Called for a judge) and also felt crummy about it for a while. At the same time, in this case, I feel it was the correct call.

I've also been in a situation similar to your opponent, though it was turn 3 into turn 4 that I realized I had misjudged some distance, resulting in 2 of my 3 ships flying right off the board in formation. I wanted to concede on the spot, but I kept going with my one remaining ship, in hopes of salvaging my MoV at the very least. I can't say however that he should have stayed to play the game out for the same reason, as a 1st round mistake like that can be pretty crushing.

Now, say, had he during setup actually set a ship so it was facing off the board (Which happened with an opponent of mine at a store champ a few weeks ago), I would comment/mention it to him, and give him the chance to correct it then before setting dials.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are under no obligation at all to let him change his dial and honestly while usually I would offer it to my opponents, if someone immediatly pushes me to let him do it I won't. You definitly were not a jerk here, he was, especially with the knee-jerk concede that just makes him look like some salty kid.

Social conduct for (obviously) missdialed moves: If it is your dial, do not ask your opponent to let you change it. If they offer you to do so, let them pick the maneuver. Be angry at yourself if you have to be, but strive to laugh it of and move on. If it isn't your dial, there are no obligations on your side you wouldn't have at any other point in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following the rules is not being a jerk, so no one can fault you for it, but that being said I'm generally pretty lenient on the first offense if it's obviously stupid, and probably would have let him change it to a 3-turn the other way and tell him to be careful (implying that I wouldn't accept it again). For example, in a match the other day my opponent did a 3-turn when facing the edge and went off the side when a 2-turn would have been fine, but that was a risk he chose to take. In another match (round 5 in a nationals) my opponent started with a ship flush against the edge and 3 straight maneuvers later it was a millimeter off the board, so I let him nudge it straight and told him to be more careful next time because not everyone is as lenient as me.

I enjoy winning and am competitive but this hobby involves playing with plastic space ships and rolling dice, so I don't think that it's worth being overly strict.

Edited by darthlurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The judge was really in the right.
No matter what anyone else might tell you, there is nothing in the rules that allows for your opponent to change a dial or for you to allow it.

I get that it is the casual or friendly thing to do but going strictly by the rules it is not legal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should have let him re-dial the move.  It was an opening move of little import and running off the board was obviously not his intention.  Past the first few moves, I can see holding someone's feet to the fire for a mistake.  This was an opportunity to make someone's day.

 

Sometimes you have to be the better person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think in this situation right up to being in contention at Nationals I would have let him change it.  Regionals final game?  Yeah, I'll let you redial that the opposite way and would hope my opponent would do the same for me.  Play the game.

At the point where you call the judge you're making the decision as the judge can't do anything but rule what the rules are.  "I don't want to be a **** but I want you to be a **** on my behalf" is just trying to soothe your conscience, have your cake and eat it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't usually call judges over on anything. I would've let him change it. For him to make this kind of mistake probably means he's a beginner player anyway, so you'd have been able to outfly him.

I remember how terrible I felt once when I went to a store tournament and unthinkingly dialed in a red maneuver for Tycho (forgetting his permastress) and then my opponent got to choose a maneuver so took him off the board (this was before the 2-straight rule was created). This kind of thing tends to ruin tournaments for new players. 

Of course, what do I know? I'm a filthy casual player anyway - I've played this game on a regular basis for five years and only been to four tournaments in all that time! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

I'm glad people are taking both sides.  Thanks for all the responses.  This was only my 2nd tournament and I wasn't really prepared for what I saw him do.  Took me completely off guard. 

Either way you go you'll find supporters.  You have to decide what's most important to you and embrace that is how you will approach the game.

If you're comfortable with enforcing the rules then be the player that enforces the rules.  But I think you have to also own both the good & bad of that decision, rather than try to deflect the bad onto the judge.

Whichever you choose you have to be able to look your opponent in the eye and be good with it.  If you can do that then whichever you choose was the right choice for you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm unsure... it depends on who I'm playing. If it is someone who usually gives me "fly casual" courtesy in tournament I'd let it change. if it was one of the ones who get really sticky with the rules i'd call the judge. However... in my area there are about 4-5 players that are way better rules references than the judge. The judge doesn't play, or if he does increasingly rarely at one of our stores. He has given other players bad calls and advice that makes me cringe a bit (allowing Sabine to roll/boost before her maneuver even if she is stressed) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

For him to make this kind of mistake probably means he's a beginner player anyway, so you'd have been able to outfly him.

Didn't Paul Heaver set up all his TIEs facing backwards (the edge) one tournament?

We all make mistakes.

I have mis-dialed and flown my crap all over the place before in a tournament. I don't ask for take backs, and I have held a guy to flying his Ryad off the board once during a tourney. I do think that initial Turn 0/1 obvious goofups should be able to be changed as its just getting the game started. Mid game? Nah, you need to be on your best, and I expect the same from myself and accept my screwups.

Now, the bigger question is this:

42 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

...I felt like garbage for the next couple hours. 

Was it worth it?

For some of us, its more important to have fun than to win. You make that choice yourself. I'm not WAAC, but if it made me feel like crap for the rest of the tournament to hold someone to a mistake like that, maybe I would recommend you be more concerned about having an enjoyable tournament rather than driving your enemies before you by rule gotchas.

But just to make sure I'm clear with all that flippity-floppity introspective: you didn't do anything wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, he knows he dun goofed.

What if you let him change it and he then won the game - would you get bitter because technically you would have been right to enforce the rule and have a much easier game? Would he feel bad?

On the other hand this stupid mistake might have wasted one of very few chances for him to play a SC tournament, and it might have wasted the entire day including travel and preparation time. Considering this I'd definitely let him change it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fine to play to win at all costs. That's how you will most likely grow in skill with x-wing in it's current state.  As the game grows, you will most likely need to get whatever competitive edge you can find. And, as you said, you were purely playing to win, not have fun.  

That being said, after a few years of playing you will want your opponent to fix that move, as you are seeking to get in the best games you can. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know I suppose. 

 

I had an opponent put the wrong dial down for a ship in a regional a few months back, so by having him fly completely the wrong way it made the game a lot easier for me. I felt crappy doing it, after conferring with a judge, but I've had it done to me as well, and I suppose it teaches you to pay attention.

 

In a friendly game, let him change the dial - I've done that too after a friend flew his striker off in the opening turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a similar situation at my first store champ this year, opponent was flying bossk and an IG, dialed maneuvers for the opposite ships, which meant Bossk was going to fly off the board without ever firing a shot instead of bumping and stayinig put like he wa smeant to.  In my case, I knew it was a new player so I just had him do the moves for the ships they were intended for.  I'm fairly casual for obvious mistakes like that in tournaments.  I'll hold to a lot of missed opportunities, but a round 1 (or early round obvious mistake when we haven't even engaged yet) I'm happy to let people take back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...