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Payens

Is Stronghold worth it?

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When I first read Stronghold I thought it was awesome.  But looking at it more it does not seem as nice as the range of it is so small.  It only really works if you have fighters around your Quasar to protect it from other fighters.   But there are way more scenarios where that range is not effective and it seems like a waste of 5 points. 

 

Thoughts?  

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I'm torn on that one. It certainly helps the TIEs out, but puts you carrier at higher risk. If I was running Sloane on a different ship and brought ALL the swarm squadrons I could... yeah. It will have a niche home like Gallant Haven

 

I find it as my #2 choice of title in the QF. I think Pirsuant is phenomenal and Squall will be largely useless to me. 

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17 minutes ago, Payens said:

 But looking at it more it does not seem as nice as the range of it is so small.

You got to be kidding, no wonders why I find rebels more creative and tacticaly superior :lol:, Try to keep a bunch of fighters into Gallant heaven first and youll be trained for this amusing task.

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It's going to largely depend on the rest of your fleet and the amount of points you have invested in 4 hull or lower non ace squads. I think the more you want to invest in that, the more potent and necessary Stronghold will be. Somewhere around a medium to large fighter group of 4 hull or less, you'll likely want Stronghold. You'll just have to not invest a ton of points also into Stronghold itself. Likely taking just the Quasar 1 and upgrading it with Flight Controllers, Stronghold, and Extended Hangar Bays. It's very likely going to die, but the point is you care much more about the squads making it safely into the fray, especially for Sloane fleets. 

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It's good for when you're using your TIEs as a CAP to keep your own fleet safe. Keep the TIEs safely near Stronghold until they pounce. The enemy squadrons can jump in and alpha strike them at reduced effectiveness and then eat flak (Raiders!) or it can durdle around and ignore the TIEs and then get alpha struck. To some extent, it's lose-lose unless the other guy went much heavier on squadrons than you.

I'm not sure I'll use it more than the other titles, mind you, but it has its uses.

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I should clarify this more... 

I am building a new fleet for a campaign so I have 500 points eventually and I am also planning on taking lots of aces...  And the 2 fleets that I am against have  little fighter support so far... basically 4-5 per fleet.  And one of the Fleets is running Sato so I want to keep the fighters our of close range of my ships so he does not get the change die ability from him.  

 

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34 minutes ago, xerpo said:

You got to be kidding, no wonders why I find rebels more creative and tacticaly superior :lol:, Try to keep a bunch of fighters into Gallant heaven first and youll be trained for this amusing task.

Ok, now pretend Gallant haven goes on a Neb-B...

Assault Frigates have a completely different combat profile than a squishy carrier.

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7 minutes ago, Hastatior said:

Ok, now pretend Gallant haven goes on a Neb-B...

Assault Frigates have a completely different combat profile than a squishy carrier.

Who is pretending anything? AF2 are the best carriers due to upgrades that Rebels can afford along with Yavaris. If you struggle with distance 2 try distance 1.

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1 minute ago, xerpo said:

Who is pretending anything? AF2 are the best carriers due to upgrades that Rebels can afford along with Yavaris. If you struggle with distance 2 try distance 1.

Uh, keeping your squadrons relevant and in the protective envelope of Gallant haven is much easier and more viable because its on a combat ship the whole thing people have issue with isn't keeping the squadrons in range, it's keeping the squadrons in range while keeping the **** quasar ALIVE. 

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14 minutes ago, Hastatior said:

Uh, keeping your squadrons relevant and in the protective envelope of Gallant haven is much easier and more viable because its on a combat ship the whole thing people have issue with isn't keeping the squadrons in range, it's keeping the squadrons in range while keeping the **** quasar ALIVE. 

To me, stronghold is there to allow itty bitty hulled squadrons to tank an alpha. 

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1 hour ago, Hastatior said:

Uh, keeping your squadrons relevant and in the protective envelope of Gallant haven is much easier and more viable because its on a combat ship the whole thing people have issue with isn't keeping the squadrons in range, it's keeping the squadrons in range while keeping the **** quasar ALIVE. 

Properly manuvering you can easily make use of stronghold while your fighters are at distance 1 of a ship. Not to mention Rhymer. What the **** do you want? A title that provides obstruction at distance five? all the map? when is enough? While keeping stronghold at long distance of any ship you are (for most of them) completely denying its single antisquadron dice. I call that OP not only because its effect, but because of the ZERO skill needed from the imperial player to make this happen.

Edited by xerpo

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Can we go back to the part where someone said that Squall wasn't good? Because I'd like to talk about that; the other two titles are the best argument against Stronghold, especially when you can just take a jamming field flotilla and then move it out of the way later. If that's not good, explain what is so special about Stronghold?

 

GH is a whole different kettle of fish because it's reduce damage, not obstruct. The value of obstruct is a flat .5 expected value because you remove a die pre-roll. GH always targets their best result and is a flat decrease.

Edited by Reinholt

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Easy...... take motti and pop reenforced blast doors on the carrier, it's now got a hot 11 hull to be chewed through.....should keep the bad guys busy until you can blast em.....

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17 minutes ago, Reinholt said:

Can we go back to the part where someone said that Squall wasn't good?

I'm pretty sure I subconsciously dismissed it as the rantings of a Madman and went back to planning my Nose-Punch-Esque 3.0 Quasar lists, now that Rhymer himself stopped the usual Nose-Punch's utility :D

The only difference between Stronghold and the Jamming Field is that Stronghold makes you immune to 1-die Ship-Based Anti-Squadron...

...  Which would probably not be shooting at you, but shooting at the Quasar anyway...

But who knows. :)

Edited by Drasnighta

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19 minutes ago, Reinholt said:

GH is a whole different kettle of fish because it's reduce damage, not obstruct. The value of obstruct is a flat .5 expected value because you remove a die pre-roll. GH always targets their best result and is a flat decrease.

Thats why GH cost 8 points, not 4, and is restricted to distance 1, not 2. The argument here was about the OP struggling with maintaining his fighters into distance 2, not the effects themselves.

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19 minutes ago, Johnnyreb said:

Easy...... take motti and pop reenforced blast doors on the carrier, it's now got a hot 11 hull to be chewed through.....should keep the bad guys busy until you can blast em.....

Only if it will survive the round to trigger the blast doors. In worst case your Carrier, who seeks the brawl, gets oneshot.

I am as well not sure if the Titel is this good. You don't want your main carrier this close in the heat.

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44 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I'm pretty sure I subconsciously dismissed it as the rantings of a Madman and went back to planning my Nose-Punch-Esque 3.0 Quasar lists, now that Rhymer himself stopped the usual Nose-Punch's utility :D

The only difference between Stronghold and the Jamming Field is that Stronghold makes you immune to 1-die Ship-Based Anti-Squadron...

...  Which would probably not be shooting at you, but shooting at the Quasar anyway...

But who knows. :)

The other only difference is stronghold has no negative effects for your squadrons. You still counter at full blast, and so on.

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I am in the skeptical camp on whether something sucks from the get-go.  There's just been too many instances of a community thread saying something was bad when it turned out pretty good.      

It definitely isn't gallant haven, but I'm sure some creativity will put it to use in some fleets.

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34 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Thats why GH cost 8 points, not 4, and is restricted to distance 1, not 2. The argument here was about the OP struggling with maintaining his fighters into distance 2, not the effects themselves.

I beg to differ.

First, Stronghold is 5 not 4.

Second, an Assault Frigate is much better at staying alive than a Quasar will be. Overall, an AF as 5 more shields, and an Evade. Because of that, the AF costs more.

Third, Stronghold straight up prevents attacks from 1 AA ships. Which means they can't modify dice which means they can't add dice. To do that, you need to have your squads at distance 1-2 of the Quasar, which means your Quasar is getting in to close-medium range. You can see my second point on how the Quasar will survive at such close range.

Fourth, why do you keep attacking players and insinuating they have no skill? Knock it off.
"The argument here was about the OP struggling with maintaining his fighters into distance 2"
"You got to be kidding, no wonders why I find rebels more creative and tacticaly superior"

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1 hour ago, Reinholt said:

Can we go back to the part where someone said that Squall wasn't good? Because I'd like to talk about that; the other two titles are the best argument against Stronghold, especially when you can just take a jamming field flotilla and then move it out of the way later. If that's not good, explain what is so special about Stronghold?

 

GH is a whole different kettle of fish because it's reduce damage, not obstruct. The value of obstruct is a flat .5 expected value because you remove a die pre-roll. GH always targets their best result and is a flat decrease.

Yeah I also like squall a lot. Still good with Rhymer or whatever as a threat radius increase, but more importantly in my mind makes it super easy to play fun strategic games with imperials. 

Pursuant is just good. I mean flat out good. And cheap.

And I still like stronghold if you are bringing swarm fighters. But that boldes part. Yup.

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13 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I beg to differ.

First, Stronghold is 5 not 4.

Second, an Assault Frigate is much better at staying alive than a Quasar will be. Overall, an AF as 5 more shields, and an Evade. Because of that, the AF costs more.

Third, Stronghold straight up prevents attacks from 1 AA ships. Which means they can't modify dice which means they can't add dice. To do that, you need to have your squads at distance 1-2 of the Quasar, which means your Quasar is getting in to close-medium range. You can see my second point on how the Quasar will survive at such close range.

Fourth, why do you keep attacking players and insinuating they have no skill? Knock it off.
"The argument here was about the OP struggling with maintaining his fighters into distance 2"
"You got to be kidding, no wonders why I find rebels more creative and tacticaly superior"

Can you double post this so I can like it twice?

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