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Moohnzie

Right call on accidenly thrown die?

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So, this happened at a FFG kit tournament and I wanted the community's take on it.

My opponent had a range 2 untokened A wing attack on an untokened Firespray. One dice accidentally came out of his hand while shaking and he acknowledged this but then he intentionally rolled the other die in his hand which was a focus. The discussion now was whether he rerolls both or whether he just rerolls the accidentally thrown die. Of course, ideally he should have picked up the accidentally thrown die right away and rerolled them both together but we are in middle ground now. I insisted that the intentionally rolled die remain.

He would have to be lucky and I unlucky for this to have any real impact but you know how dice goes. We are X wing friends and it did not become a big deal however after the tournament we are both having beers with 2 other members of the community who both did not agree with the call. I was very confident with my call at the time but am now wondering what others would have done.

Note: the TO is not very fluent with X wing rules so our decision together would mostly likely be better however my opponent might have let me have my way because I am about 2 years more experienced.

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The game has a clear cut rule about rolling too few or too many dice (as in you do not throw the right amount of dice because of X reason).  It does not, however, have a clear cut rule about dropping a dice.

 

In our area, if you drop a dice (which is usually obvious because we try to catch it back), you pick it up, add it to the others and then roll them all together.  It just seems simpler this way.

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As long as someone is consistent with how to roll dice, it's fine with me. I'm in the "we roll together" camp. From my experience, that's the majority.

It's very sad that one has to consider all the ways that someone could cheat...

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Cheating was definelty not the issue. Like I said, ideally he would have picked up the die and rerolled them together (like it is almost always done) but the moment he rolled intentionally the 2nd die before picking up the accidental die, it changed the way it is normally done.

So we were in between the whether to allow the reroll of the intentionally thrown die.

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Its sticky... and as a TO it has never come up.

How i personally play when it happens to me, i give my opponent the option of keeping that accidental die or me scooping it and re-rolling it. If its blank i would feel really bad saying "opps i better re-roll that with my other dice"

I have had people leave hits, and had people have me scoop up blanks as everyone has there own feelings about luck and whats fair. I know as per the rules you cant roll dice one at i time so it should be scooped but its a fun game so i leave it in my opponents hands. However i have never rolled one die accidentally then the rest without dealing with the accidental die first.

If things are in doubt i generally give the power to my opponent, or eye on the side that favors them. 

 

 

Edited by Icelom

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2 minutes ago, drjkel said:

It's very sad that one has to consider all the ways that someone could cheat...

no one said anything about cheating. The mis-rolled die was a crit, I would have rather rerolled both than just the one. It was a matter of not thinking about it as I continued to roll out the second die  that I should have picked up and rerolled both. I wanted to reroll both die, but just went for the second die in the end (which ended up a blank I think). My heat was up because I missed a really bad maneuver earlier that potentially cost me the game which made my frustrating come out and I'm usually a very composed player. It was a VERY close game. 

I wasn't going to comment on the thread because to me, the game is over, what is done is done and we will continue on playing x-wing together. I have no hard feelings over the situation and to be honest the situation was gone from my mind the minute we moved onto the next round. It's a dice game, ****'s going to happen. The odds of me pulling this one out at this stage in the game was very low (1 health A-Wing with Juke vs a 1 health Z-95 and a 2 health Firespray) I'm believe myself to be a **** good A-wing pilot, but not that good!!! 

 

 

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I would tell him to pick up the dropped dice and roll together. Similarly if you roll too many, whether good or bad, you roll again with the proper amount (as stated in rules).

Oddly, if someone rolls too few and I notice I will just say "roll another," but have never had that happen myself.

I know I'm full of contradictions, but if someone rolled too few dice that was most likely unintentional.

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3 hours ago, Wiredin said:

no one said anything about cheating. The mis-rolled die was a crit, I would have rather rerolled both than just the one. It was a matter of not thinking about it as I continued to roll out the second die  that I should have picked up and rerolled both. I wanted to reroll both die, but just went for the second die in the end (which ended up a blank I think). My heat was up because I missed a really bad maneuver earlier that potentially cost me the game which made my frustrating come out and I'm usually a very composed player. It was a VERY close game. 

I wasn't going to comment on the thread because to me, the game is over, what is done is done and we will continue on playing x-wing together. I have no hard feelings over the situation and to be honest the situation was gone from my mind the minute we moved onto the next round. It's a dice game, ****'s going to happen. The odds of me pulling this one out at this stage in the game was very low (1 health A-Wing with Juke vs a 1 health Z-95 and a 2 health Firespray) I'm believe myself to be a **** good A-wing pilot, but not that good!!! 

 

 

Oops, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean this specific incident. I meant going by the overall tone of the thread that in some instances someone could do it on purpose.

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1 hour ago, Skargoth said:

I would tell him to pick up the dropped dice and roll together. Similarly if you roll too many, whether good or bad, you roll again with the proper amount (as stated in rules).

Oddly, if someone rolls too few and I notice I will just say "roll another," but have never had that happen myself.

I know I'm full of contradictions, but if someone rolled too few dice that was most likely unintentional.

I have rolled too many a few times and I always give the opponent the option to keep the result, i would feel like **** rolling 4 blanks and then rolling 3 crits to replace them.

 

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How does this differ, meaningfully, from "if you roll too few, you roll the extras"?

He rolled too few. He picks up the accidental roll and rolls it.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.  Not even hinky ... he just rolled the intentional one from habit.  So, since he didn't intentionally roll enough, he rolls the other.

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From my days of running D&D, and heavily playing as flying casual, I would lean towards which ever is best.  Jokingly I would say (on a good roll) "you better keep that!" And on bad rolls say "I didn't see anything!  Pick it up"

Of course, I'd expect the same courtesy.  

 

Whenever I do go to tournament, I just want constancy.  When it is dropped the first time, better be the same way for the second time.  

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5 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

How does this differ, meaningfully, from "if you roll too few, you roll the extras"?

He rolled too few. He picks up the accidental roll and rolls it.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.  Not even hinky ... he just rolled the intentional one from habit.  So, since he didn't intentionally roll enough, he rolls the other.

He rolled too few (the accidental) and rolled the extra (the one in his hand).

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Fun story: Participated in a tournament once, where this big guy had his petite girlfriend along side him. When it came to dice rolling, he signaled her with his fingers: 2 fingers for 2 dice, 3 fingers for 3 dice etc., without saying a word, then she proceeded to carefully roll the number of dice as signalled. She knew when to pick-up red/green dice, and she did not drop a single dice....

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9 hours ago, Skargoth said:

Similarly if you roll too many, whether good or bad, you roll again with the proper amount (as stated in rules).

That rule has burned me so many times.  I remember at Yavin a guy I played rolled three attack dice at range one, got two blanks and a focus, then said "Oh!  Range one!  I should have rolled four!"  and promptly scooped them all up, added another dice and rolled again, this time getting three hits and a crit.  What are the odds that if he'd rolled three hits the first time around he would have just rolled one extra dice?

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19 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

That rule has burned me so many times.  I remember at Yavin a guy I played rolled three attack dice at range one, got two blanks and a focus, then said "Oh!  Range one!  I should have rolled four!"  and promptly scooped them all up, added another dice and rolled again, this time getting three hits and a crit.  What are the odds that if he'd rolled three hits the first time around he would have just rolled one extra dice?

Well, that was illegal...

Quote

When a player is required to roll attack or defense dice, if he rolls too many dice, he must pick up all of his dice and reroll them. If he rolls too few dice, he must leave the roll intact and roll the required number of additional dice, adding the new results to the original roll.

 

Edited by haslo
Added FAQ quote

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10 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

That rule has burned me so many times.  I remember at Yavin a guy I played rolled three attack dice at range one, got two blanks and a focus, then said "Oh!  Range one!  I should have rolled four!"  and promptly scooped them all up, added another dice and rolled again, this time getting three hits and a crit.  What are the odds that if he'd rolled three hits the first time around he would have just rolled one extra dice?

Yeah, they did that wrong.

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17 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

If you roll a hit or crit (or evade) you leave it and pretend like you meant to drop it. If it is a blank or focus you pick it up and say "my bad "and roll again. 

hehe, exactly what i do :-)

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18 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

The game has a clear cut rule about rolling too few or too many dice (as in you do not throw the right amount of dice because of X reason).  It does not, however, have a clear cut rule about dropping a dice.

 

In our area, if you drop a dice (which is usually obvious because we try to catch it back), you pick it up, add it to the others and then roll them all together.  It just seems simpler this way.

It would fall under the rolling too few dice. 

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17 minutes ago, Toqtamish said:

It would fall under the rolling too few dice. 

Must be painful on the day where an opponent drops a dice and it rolls on the ground and deep under a display case holding 800 pounds of merchandise.  It would mean you would have no other choice but to very carefully recover the dice without altering its result.

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