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Are Quadjumpers really that bad?

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They are not bad, but they are circumstantial.  A single tractor beam can make 2 dice attack a lot more murderous than it would first appear. That being said, I have a slight preference towards using the Shadowcaster with a bunch of 12 points fillers to do just that.  The problem with the PS1 Quadjumper is that maybe 50% of the time it will not be in range / arc to fire at the target that it just placed a tractor beam token on.  The Shadowcaster does not suffer from that downside just as much.

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How well do you expect a Helo to do in a dogfight?

The quadjumper relies on 2 gimicks, tractor beam tokens and revers movements. It doesn't have firepower so taking one loses you a good attack from say a TLT-thug. Simply put it lacks to firepower to make up for its slow movement. The only thing it can catch is a B-wing. But a B-wing would tear it apart.

Maybe the Imperial counterpart (seen in the background of the new Kihrax pilot) could be a helo type unit with some good firepower. It could be good at securing an area better than clustermines and cargo chutes.

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Played with Base ps one with intelligence agent, pattern analyzer and the space tug array. Was very very fun, kept a K-wing on rocks for 4 or 5 turns was nothing he could do to get away from me, knowing what his manouver was i could easily decide where he was going to end up.

However my second game trying it, it exploded before it could do anything.

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1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

How well do you expect a Helo to do in a dogfight?

The quadjumper relies on 2 gimicks, tractor beam tokens and revers movements. It doesn't have firepower so taking one loses you a good attack from say a TLT-thug. Simply put it lacks to firepower to make up for its slow movement. The only thing it can catch is a B-wing. But a B-wing would tear it apart.

Maybe the Imperial counterpart (seen in the background of the new Kihrax pilot) could be a helo type unit with some good firepower. It could be good at securing an area better than clustermines and cargo chutes.

I guess the point of the tractor beams is to get farther along with the two-three dice you're throwing. Position them around rocks so you're throwing ships into rocks and not getting shot at.

I get what you're saying though. Veteran players will not play into the traps and can pick them apart at a distance.

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3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

How well do you expect a Helo to do in a dogfight?

The quadjumper relies on 2 gimicks, tractor beam tokens and revers movements. It doesn't have firepower so taking one loses you a good attack from say a TLT-thug. Simply put it lacks to firepower to make up for its slow movement. The only thing it can catch is a B-wing. But a B-wing would tear it apart.

Maybe the Imperial counterpart (seen in the background of the new Kihrax pilot) could be a helo type unit with some good firepower. It could be good at securing an area better than clustermines and cargo chutes.

That's true, but I find that the common mistake with those thugs is to fly them as frontliners. 

I find Quadjumpers becomes way more valuable when the fly for the second engage. They have no fire power nor the thoughtness to sustain a first engage with the enemy list. Waiting them in back is more easy. There was a player here who shows his Fenn-Teroch-Zuvio list. Hyperwave on Zuvio, deploy him at PS12 and give a focus to both the Fighters. Then push theme at five and TL if you're already in range, or boost to catch the enemy. Push Zuvio 3 Forward. In this situation Zuvio is in a better position to go for any enemy ship which will flow beyond the fighters (Clusters and Tractor).

You can do this in the second turn as well if you find yourself too far from the enemy, thanks Attanni.

 

That was just an example, but the clue is to fly Quadjumpers as "counter/interceptors (not the ship)" more than run themselves for the first tractor or (mostly) dying during the process.

Keep calm, be patient.......or use 2 of them and tractor each others for a free boost (the tractored one must be Sarco>his rule>still roll 2-3 green dice).

Edited by Cerve

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Sorry, but I can't stand the ship. Pros: cool action bar, nice model, backwards is nice, and 2 pt action mod is funny. Cons: Dial is terrible, 5 hull with 2 evade is terrible, 2 primary non turret is garbage, and pilot abilities are boarderline unplayable.  

Its funny looking which is great. From the movie -- cool. It can set up the lols in a casual game. Otherwise it just a ship with close to zero offense and no staying power. 

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6 hours ago, chervorlovesu said:

Sorry, but I can't stand the ship. Pros: cool action bar, nice model, backwards is nice, and 2 pt action mod is funny. Cons: Dial is terrible, 5 hull with 2 evade is terrible, 2 primary non turret is garbage, and pilot abilities are boarderline unplayable.  

Its funny looking which is great. From the movie -- cool. It can set up the lols in a casual game. Otherwise it just a ship with close to zero offense and no staying power. 

Well, that thing can tractor you before you move. It must have a garbage chassis I guess

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3 hours ago, Cerve said:

Well, that thing can tractor you before you move. It must have a garbage chassis I guess

In terms of fancy maneuvers, I would think:
Tallon Roll > Reverse Maneuvers > Segnors Loop > K-Turn.
The Chassis isn't that bad. Even ignoring the reverse maneuvers it's just as maneuverable as an A-wing. It's gimmicks make it viable, and I'm all for that.

[Edit] I just played a game with 3 bombing quadjumpers and a HWK against triple scouts and won!

Edited by Astech

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They aren't bad, but there are better options available for the points.

In a game that revolves around killing your opponents ships, a control piece/ship needs to do damage AND be a force multiplier.

If it only does one of those things then it isn't competitive, imho.

 

The Quadjumper is currently only a control piece, which is priced a bit high for what it can do.

I do see it do great work if you can keep it cheap as chips though.

(And its ability can be so disruptive that I'd be hard-pressed to price that thing differently). :P

Inversely, we don't see Expertise Glaive TIE/Ds with Flechette/Ion cannons, as they simply cost too much (thus reducing your overall force).

 

Edited by Keffisch

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I finished 16th out of 32 in a local 100pts tournament. I used Jabba the Hut as a new card on the VY666, supported by 3xQuadjumper with double HotShotBlasters.

My conclusion was that Jabba the Hut seems to work fine, but my list probably needs a bit of tweaking. Triple*2 HotShotBlaster seems to work great with tractor beam spam support. However, I struggled once HSBlasters were used up, especially against large ships with enough health to survive. They simply don't deal enough damage against large ships. However, against small ships, they can be beasty, especially if you lure them onto asteroids. 

List in detail:

Jakku Gunrunner (20) Quadjumper (15), “Hot Shot” Blaster (3), Spacetug Tractor Array (2)

Jakku Gunrunner (20) Quadjumper (15), “Hot Shot” Blaster (3), Spacetug Tractor Array (2)

Jakku Gunrunner (21) Quadjumper (15), Intelligence Agent (1), “Hot Shot” Blaster (3), Spacetug Tractor Array (2)

Trandoshan Slaver (39) YV-666 (29), Jabba (5), Dengar (3), Glitterstim (2)

Edited by le12ro

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Personally my impression of them is that they'd be great if they weren't so SLOW.  Giving them even a 4 straight would get them into combat quickly enough to matter, but as it is they literally can't close from out of range into range 1 with an action remaining (and even with a 4 straight that can be tricky at low PS) which means that to do their biggest trick - tractor actions - they have to weather a round of shooting first, and with the 5/2 stat array, I usually find that they. Just. Die.

It's a shame because I really like the look of the ship, but I've yet to make it contribute anything like its points, even built down to a tight budget.

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9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Personally my impression of them is that they'd be great if they weren't so SLOW.

I think they'd be too powerful otherwise. Use two, or give your ship a cloaking device. That'll help.

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2 hours ago, haslo said:

I think they'd be too powerful otherwise. Use two, or give your ship a cloaking device. That'll help.

Or just slowroll with the entire list. 3 is not so slow after all. 

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I've found them to be superb little ships. They're not rocking the world but for the points you pay you get something pretty solid. I find they often get ignored because they're little threat by themselves. They're just tough enough to take a concentrated effort to kill. I think the biggest thing holding them back is they're not a good mindlink platform. 

Edited by The Inquisitor

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you arent seeing any because most scum players simply play scum to abuse jm5k + protectorate + lancer cheese builds rather than employ any real strategy. building to max damage while having an innate, rather high evade stat and an amazing dial is not a strategy when its a thing regardless of what you do. Strategy involves planning out maneuvers or weighing strengths vs weaknesses, when you have no weakness there is no strategy only cheese.

Tugboats themselves do nothing really, and thats the problem. They do next to no damage unless lucky and typically cost enough to "rob" you of a cheap protectorate.
If flown properly though, they are a pseudo Biggs. For 20pts you can get a PS1 tug w/ Intel Agent, Tractor Array, and Pattern Analyzer. This is insanely strong because before he moves at PS1 you can see what the dial is of the guy youre gunning for, so you know exactly where to toss him so he bumps or hits a rock.
Large ship lists just get a reduced agility, which is actually larger than people think on impact. JM5K with 1 die is MUCH easier to vaporize

Another local player and myself use tugboats all the time and now we just treat him as a scum Biggs because everyone hates that ship so dang much they immediately gun for him now lol.
The amount of ships i've killed without ever shooting them with that tugboat tractor is hilarious... Sitting at about 3speed away from the board edge, boost forward, edge of the base clips the border when they do a 1turn and theys dead. Made one guy have a vendetta against that thing because of it making Tycho fly off the board at full hp lol

Edited by Vineheart01

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This has been a pretty good discussion all-around.  I appreciate the ideas that have been brought to the table. I'd like to give them a few changes.

My takeaways so far: keep them cheap, center the fight around asteroids,  and plan for as far in advance as possible.

I'm still crafting my list, but I'm thinking of going with two Quadjumpers and Asajj.

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20 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

This has been a pretty good discussion all-around.  I appreciate the ideas that have been brought to the table. I'd like to give them a few changes.

My takeaways so far: keep them cheap, center the fight around asteroids,  and plan for as far in advance as possible.

I'm still crafting my list, but I'm thinking of going with two Quadjumpers and Asajj.

That's....I'm not sure will work. I found Quadjumpers as amazing ships, but it's true that you need some firepower to pair with them. So 1 big ship+2 Jumpers doesn't sound good for me. Personally I always try to pair the Quadjumper side with almost 2 other ships. That can be 2 Aces (or almost 2 hitters) or a swarm. 
So when I run 2 Jumpers, i run almost other 2 ships that can hit almost 3 red dices (or TLTs). 

Oh and another good thing with them is that they carry bombs as well. A lot of people understimate this thing but I like to put any light bomb on theme if I need the points. Actually I still prefer bombs over crews on them.

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52 minutes ago, Cerve said:

That's....I'm not sure will work. I found Quadjumpers as amazing ships, but it's true that you need some firepower to pair with them. So 1 big ship+2 Jumpers doesn't sound good for me. Personally I always try to pair the Quadjumper side with almost 2 other ships. That can be 2 Aces (or almost 2 hitters) or a swarm. 
So when I run 2 Jumpers, i run almost other 2 ships that can hit almost 3 red dices (or TLTs). 

Oh and another good thing with them is that they carry bombs as well. A lot of people understimate this thing but I like to put any light bomb on theme if I need the points. Actually I still prefer bombs over crews on them.

So maybe pair them with a couple of TLT Y-wings? It looks like I can do two Synidcate Thugs along with Zuvio built out a bit and a Jakku Gunrunner.

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1 hour ago, jwilliamson12 said:

So maybe pair them with a couple of TLT Y-wings? It looks like I can do two Synidcate Thugs along with Zuvio built out a bit and a Jakku Gunrunner.

I tried Thug, Unkar and double Y TLTs. It work well but I can take off some upgrades and add Sunny as a fifth ship. I feel more comfy with 5 ships.

 

Or you can try Feedback Array on Quadjumpers, so they will tractor AND push some damage in the game.

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I've been playing with QJs quite a bit and have settled on this:

2x Jakku w/ Spacetug, Pattern Analyzer, Intel Agent
Syndicate Thug w/ TLT, R4 Agromech
Fenn Rau w/ Title, Autothrusters, Push The Limit

I made top 4 in a 16 player store champ, and it wasn't the QuadJumpers that let me down, but rather I made a poor play with Fenn that cost me the game. I think the key to the QJs is to fly them as blockers against large base, while just using the tractor control for small base targets. The TLT Y is also a good play against a lot of large base targets.

I had been running two QuadJumpers, Two TLT Ys and Sunny Bounder in a Scyk. It's a fun list, but is a much bigger victim of variance swings, and it lacks the pure offensive threat that Fenn brings.|

Regardless, I think the QJs are appropriately costed based on their the combination of their frailty but also their potential. There is a lot of nuance to playing them effectively since just jamming them into combat is a surefire way for them to explode very quickly.

Edited by slowdive
Added a thought.

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18 minutes ago, slowdive said:

I've been playing with QJs quite a bit and have settled on this:

2x Jakku w/ Spacetug, Pattern Analyzer, Intel Agent
Syndicate Thug w/ TLT, R4 Agromech
Fenn Rau w/ Title, Autothrusters, Push The Limit

I made top 4 in a 16 player store champ, and it wasn't the QuadJumpers that let me down, but rather I made a poor play with Fenn that cost me the game. I think the key to the QJs is to fly them as blockers against large base, while just using the tractor control for small base targets. The TLT Y is also a good play against a lot of large base targets.

I had been running two QuadJumpers, Two TLT Ys and Sunny Bounder in a Scyk. It's a fun list, but is a much bigger victim of variance swings, and it lacks the pure offensive threat that Fenn brings.|

Regardless, I think the QJs are appropriately costed based on their the combination of their frailty but also their potential. There is a lot of nuance to playing them effectively since just jamming them into combat is a surefire way for them to explode very quickly.

that is the list that I was writing few minutes ago. Nice to ear that is worthly! 

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On 7/3/2017 at 10:26 PM, Rakky Wistol said:

This looks fun:

Unkar Plutt (17)
Cikatro Vizago (0)
Cloaking Device (2)
Spacetug Tractor Array (2)

Guri (30)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Autothrusters (2)
StarViper Mk. II (-3)
Virago (1)

Fenn Rau (28)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Inaldra (15)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Anyone have any suggestions for Unkar play?  He's tough to get a handle on for me right now. 

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