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Gilarius

'Meta' and 'Anti-Meta'

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I was also at the Beanie Games tournament. 

I came last flying 2 B-Wings and 2 Y-Wings with minimal upgrades. 

I only managed to destroy 3 ships all day. 

But I had a blast. People were so helpful and also a little confused about my list. 

I guess some of us just don't care about the meta. 

 

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3 hours ago, Arthur_McGuire said:

That's exactly what I meant with "counter-meta".

I really like it when I can challenge myself and put my mind into the game even when not playing. I scout the local meta by attending to even the smallest tournaments and start almost every morning with nice warm cup of theorycrafting (with a side of espresso).

Problem is there is absolutely no available answer to the few powercreeps at the moment outside of playing them. They are light years away from the rest of the game material. Yes you can still win if you bring something you made but your chances are much lower. Assuming equal skill and equal luck, the player with the powercreep will always win.  Thats not fun for many players.

 

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45 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

I'm taking a double phantom list to a store championship. I will break the meta with sheer force of will.

Whisper and Echo both with stygian particle accelerator and a palpmobile won me a store kit not long ago so....dreams do come true.

 

Just a week ago I got another store kit win with two defenders. 

What I am finally starting to realize is that it may not be so much about the list...as it is about knowing what your win condition is and playing that.

With two 50 point defenders I knew my win condition was scoring early points then staying alive until the end.

There's so many points stored in the ship that just surviving with one of them is a solid call.

Once you realise you don't necessarily HAVE to wipe them all out to win a game it's like taking the red pill.

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5 hours ago, Thormind said:

Problem is there is absolutely no available answer to the few powercreeps at the moment outside of playing them. They are light years away from the rest of the game material. Yes you can still win if you bring something you made but your chances are much lower. Assuming equal skill and equal luck, the player with the powercreep will always win.  Thats not fun for many players.

 

That's why I said "counter-meta" doesn't win Worlds... I might be a bit privileged but in my local community there is some kind of honor code and the more skilled players don't just bring textbook meta lists to the table. There are meta elements but mostly just fun. This is game of skill and luck and they are both variables that affect each other.

Edited by Arthur_McGuire

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1 hour ago, BadMotivator said:

I'm taking a double phantom list to a store championship. I will break the meta with sheer force of will.

I just hope someone brought double Phantoms to our Store Champs because they are the one thing my list eats for breakfast...

Edited by Arthur_McGuire

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2 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

I'm taking a double phantom list to a store championship. I will break the meta with sheer force of will.

I took buzzsaw Whisper and buzzsaw Echo to the last SC.  Finished middling, but would have done much better had I not rolled 5 greens twice and only getting one evade result - which was Juked lol.

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2 hours ago, thatdave said:

I took buzzsaw Whisper and buzzsaw Echo to the last SC.  Finished middling, but would have done much better had I not rolled 5 greens twice and only getting one evade result - which was Juked lol.

Play a tournament with twin Phantoms and this will almost certainly happen. If it doesn't then it's probably your fault you didn't win the tournament.

F**k Dengar and Tel.

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In terms of anti-meta, I just played a game with 4 Lambdas on Vassal. What do I win?

Furthermore, it was against Vessery, Quickdraw and Tomaxand I nearly won. Vessery was left alone on 2 hull, but I couldn't punch damage through.

In terms of counter-meta, whenever I know I'll be playing against jumpmasters, I fly Chiraneau with Kylo and COlzet on the side. Dengar never gets a shot off...

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11 hours ago, Thormind said:

Problem is there is absolutely no available answer to the few powercreeps at the moment outside of playing them. They are light years away from the rest of the game material. Yes you can still win if you bring something you made but your chances are much lower. Assuming equal skill and equal luck, the player with the powercreep will always win.  Thats not fun for many players.

 

Major Rhymer would like to have a word....the one below at Beanie, took out Miranda/Leebo, Poe/Dash, and was also 1HP away from killing a TelGar list, which was that lists only loss during the swiss

Major Rhymer (LWF, Rebel Captive, Tactician, Snap Shot)

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What I am finally starting to realize is that it may not be so much about the list...as it is about knowing what your win condition is and playing that.

Exactly so. I'm forever trying to explain this to some of the 'but teh interwebz said so' crowd - for any given squad, with any given opponent, you need a plan, and you need to stick to it.  I've had surprisingly fun games with just pure TIE/fo squads - with a bit of practice you can let even 'meta' squads know they've had a fight.

I've been trying to write up little notes to myself post games with my TIE strikers in the hopes that some of the recommendations will stick. I think after the last few games, the steady escalation of unsubtle 'reminder' in the notes I'm now up to about thirty point text with the words "KILL MIRANDA DONI FIRST, YOU MORON" as the first bullet point...

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I've been trying to write up little notes to myself post games with my TIE strikers in the hopes that some of the recommendations will stick. I think after the last few games, the steady escalation of unsubtle 'reminder' in the notes I'm now up to about thirty point text with the words "KILL MIRANDA DONI FIRST, YOU MORON" as the first bullet point...

 

 

 

I do, something similar, as soon as the engagement starts (after I've selected my first target) I take a picture of the game and then review, after if the initial engagement and targeting priority was right

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5 hours ago, the1hodgy said:

Major Rhymer would like to have a word....the one below at Beanie, took out Miranda/Leebo, Poe/Dash, and was also 1HP away from killing a TelGar list, which was that lists only loss during the swiss

Major Rhymer (LWF, Rebel Captive, Tactician, Snap Shot)

You probably missed this part of the quote:

16 hours ago, Thormind said:

Yes you can still win if you bring something you made but your chances are much lower. Assuming equal skill and equal luck, the player with the powercreep will always win.  Thats not fun for many players.

Beanie being a store championship it is quite normal to see much variations between the players skill level. That could have been a major reason to see a subpar built winning. Also of the 3 builds you name, he lost to the only one thats currently part of the meta. That must mean something...

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"No, the meta matters every single day, even if you are a kitchen-table only player.  When looking to design the next wave, the design team only looks at what is winning tournaments.  They never design anything for theme or whimsy. "

I dont know the designers, so don't know if this is true but it's a pretty sad state of affairs  if it is... also they must really suck because most new things seem to have limited meta impact.

 

I find comments about x-wing not being fun if you're not wining really sad. Given for every winner there is a loser that would mean if 100 people enter an event 99 don't have fun, or at least 50 that lose more than win?? I understand it's not as much fun to have no chance of wining... but nearly all x-wing lists have a reasonable chance of winning (even if less than 50%), and surely overcoming such a challenge can be fun too ?

 

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35 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm considering getting the bolded, underlined part as a forehead tattoo...

Tattoo it on your opponent's forehead instead... if he'll let you of course.  Otherwise, you'll need a mirror and those reverse letters are a headache ;)

 

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Though, it is good to note, "Meta" and "Meta discussion" sure make it easier to pick the appropriate "tech" and to know what to practice against.

With enough "proper" preparation, having a defined meta sure makes it easier to avoid unexpected surprises.

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If you are good and the list is decent you can win against the net lists. If your list is crap (basically your list does not synergies well with itself) then you are going to have a hard time.

I have won tournaments with a generic mist hunter in my list. With 5x M3A's (that list is a beast). Came in second at a regionals running 4x barron of the empire (tap).

I have also been beat down by some crazy *** lists.

If the top players are bringing meta lists, they will do well but they would probably still do well with other lists unless there list building skills are utter ****.

 

 

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If you don't mind, let me share something that I have told people in person many times over the last few years. Some of whom (many of whom) have used it to go on to place/win at some very large events including Worlds.

Play what you love.

Yes, the "meta-lists" have some advantages over other lists that cannot be ignored. So you will want some practice against them, and you will want to know how your particular list needs to take them on. But assuming you didn't just throw together some pile of jank, that your list has some interesting synergies and strengths that you know how to exploit, you are generally much better off flying your own list.

People play better when they know their list inside and out, and especially when they really, really enjoy playing it. Towards the 6th or 7th game in a row, if you aren't really enjoying yourself you are going to start making mistakes because your game-play is all cerebral. You will be thinking everything through from beginning to end rather than simply knowing the right move, and that is exhausting/prone to error. Not to mention, if you spend 8+ hours playing a game, wouldn't you prefer to have as much fun playing it as possible?

There are very few people with enough time to get the number of repetitions in with a net-list to know it inside and out, and even fewer of those find any pleasure in doing so. If/when you finally meet someone with a top-tier meta list; who also loves flying other people's lists, has mad skills, and has had the time to practice the hell out of it, just accept that they have a LOT more desire to win tournaments than you do. Play them to the best of your ability, enjoy your day, shake everyone's hand, commiserate about that die roll that almost won it for you anyway, and leave with a smile.

JMO

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