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Beatty

Just discovered Genesys, skeptical

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On 7/3/2017 at 6:38 AM, Beatty said:

I just don't see myself playing this without some serious Miracle on FFG's developers part. 

Wouldn't it be wiser to, oh - I don't know, actually wait until we actually have some information about what FFG is doing before completely dismissing them out of hand? Something more than one press release and a picture of some dice?

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31 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Wouldn't it be wiser to, oh - I don't know, actually wait until we actually have some information about what FFG is doing before completely dismissing them out of hand? Something more than one press release and a picture of some dice?

Out of here with your facts, evidence and common sense! Out!! This is the internet!!! Out!!! You troublemaker!!!!

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If a RPG doesn't have a good theme it FAILS bad. That has always been the law of RPG's. I've been playing since the early 80's and I have seen many games. Some games had amazing mechanics but the theme was bad so it failed. Some the theme was great but the mechanics drove players away. The balance needs to be there and I just don't realistically see it happening. Role playing is already a niche gaming type and using a Niche theme like Runewars would fail. That theme may work for a board game but not for a RPG.

I'd put forward that a generic system is more likely to fail if it didn't first earn its stripes and work out its mechanical kinks within a good, popular setting... and is conversely more likely to succeed if it did begin with such a setting. Savage Worlds started as Deadlands, as others have pointed out. Open d20 started as 3.X Dungeons & Dragons. FATE began as Fudge and was popularized with settings like Atomic Robo, Spirit of the Century, and Dresden Files. Cypher System started with both Numenera and the Strange. Starting off with a popular setting to win converts is like setting a layup for the generic version: you have a built in group of players who know the system and presumably like it, even if they only showed up for the attractive narrative setting.

And here's the key: that's exactly what things look like for the Genesys RPG. What setting could have possibly been a better player base lure than Star Wars?

Quote

Some decent points but still Highly Skeptical. Also I played GURPS and me and my groups didn't like it. But as for Original Settings being successful I will agree that is true but definitely not in all cases.

That's a bit of a non-sequitur. You don't like GURPs, the generic system which emphasizes writing everything down on forms in triplicate or even quadruplicate... So you won't play Genesys, the generic system that focuses intensely on inspiring and promoting dramatic narration from everyone at the table. That's a bit like saying, "I don't much care for sugary sodas, so I'm highly skeptical of single malt whisky." The one just does not follow from the other.

Edited by sfRattan

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On 7/4/2017 at 2:19 PM, CitizenKeen said:

That seems like a 'you problem'. Cortex Plus Prime, 2d20, Fate, Savage Worlds, Cypher System. We're in a glut of generic systems people can hack into what they want.

And GURPS didn't start with all that. GURPS started with a core book. What makes you think Genesys won't have Horror, Magic, etc., if there's demand? FFG is known for churning out product.

 

GURPS launched with worldbooks available. Fantasy was out VERY shortly, if not with, the core. Much of 4E is selling as standalones (Vorkosigan, WWII, and Prime Directive, amongst others)

2d20 has no generic core.

Cortex Plus has no actual generic core, and the rules for each flavor (including the 3 in the Hackers's Guide) differ from each other notably. Cam's writing one.

Savage Worlds caught on about the time the standalone licensed games came out. I know that it was not within my nor most of my friends phornemae until the Pirates release.

Cypher doesn't appear have (at present, to my knowledge) a generic core; it's got several adapted cores.

Fate does have  universal core... but many of the adapted settings are in standalone versions.

EABA is a core with no standalones. Few have heard of it.

Simply Roleplaying was a generic core; I don't recall any setting books, and it didn't go anywhere of note.

Theatrix only got 2 setting books off in its run...

Palladium has no generic version; adapted corebooks only.

Jovian Chronicles and Heavy Gear don't seem to have done well as a generic engine; the adapted cores model is what they appear to be using now.

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Generic systems have never been terribly successful, but they have always had a cult following.  More than that though the ones that do exist like GURPS, have existed largely unchained for decades.  GURPS is now in its 4th edition and you can still use content from as far back as 2nd edition with the current system without any trouble/conversions or logic issues.

I do agree with the poster that theme matters, though I would argue its more that tradition matters and focus matters.  When you have an RPG system that is built around a theme it typically works a lot better than one that is generic.  For example no one is going to run D&D using Genysis, D&D fans will stick with their favorite version of D&D.  Same is true for Star Wars, Game of Thrones, World of Darkness etc.. These games have systems designed very specifically for their theme and a generic system will simply not be able to compete and for good reason, simply put, specific systems are almost always better then generic system when you have a specific theme or franchise designed for it.

That said, Generic systems do have a place in the world of RPG's in particular for creative GM's who want to design their own worlds or run settings for which no system exists.  I found personally the exact opposite to be true when I create a world/setting of my own when it comes to using existing systems designed for a specific theme.  For example I find Star Wars to be a terrible system for trying to use it with a hard science-fiction setting, or trying to use D&D in a customized fantasy setting.  They just don't work and are too inflexible, requiring countless adaptations and re-writes of inner workings like say the Magic System in D&D that result in me basically creating an entirely new system on my own.  

Then there is the issue of teaching games.  I despise having to constantly switch systems and introducing them to a group every-time I invent or want to run a new setting.  A good example is Game of Thrones.  Now while I really like the Songs of Ice and Fire system, it was however a real pain in the *** to learn and teach the system just to run the game.  I would have much rather use a system that my players already know like D&D, but the D&D system simply did not support a Game of Thrones setting.  It was too high fantasy, the classes didn't make sense, abilities didn't make sense, even the general rules where just too cartoony to fit.  

With a generic system you teach it once and can run a wide range of games/settings/worlds and you don't have to introduce a new mechanic to your group.  To me this is a huge advantage.  It allows me to run a Wild West setting, Spy Setting, a steampunk settings or a super hero setting without ever having to go back and both learn and teach a new system.  GURPS was always really great for this purpose, but in my humble opinion the system is "overclocked" and just requires way too much in terms of prep, not to mention the many balance issues.  Despite decades of effort its just too heavy of a system and it really requires you to trim a lot of fat off it.

I generic system built around a narrative dice system that is approachable and easy to Teach and Learn, man that is right up my alley.  I love the freedom of being creative without having to deal with the technical bits often associated with conversions or having to learn new systems all the time.  For me Genysis gets a thumbs up.  Its a generic system, it uses an established and well received mechanic and its coming from FFG which means great long terms support and quality.  I wouldn't expect it to be a blow out success but I think there is enough of a RPG community around to embrace it and make it successful enough to keep it alive.  FFG has my full support on this one, I will definitely be picking up the core book as soon as its available.

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4 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

GURPS launched with worldbooks available. Fantasy was out VERY shortly, if not with, the core. Much of 4E is selling as standalones (Vorkosigan, WWII, and Prime Directive, amongst others)

2d20 has no generic core.

Cortex Plus has no actual generic core, and the rules for each flavor (including the 3 in the Hackers's Guide) differ from each other notably. Cam's writing one.

Savage Worlds caught on about the time the standalone licensed games came out. I know that it was not within my nor most of my friends phornemae until the Pirates release.

Cypher doesn't appear have (at present, to my knowledge) a generic core; it's got several adapted cores.

Fate does have  universal core... but many of the adapted settings are in standalone versions.

EABA is a core with no standalones. Few have heard of it.

Simply Roleplaying was a generic core; I don't recall any setting books, and it didn't go anywhere of note.

Theatrix only got 2 setting books off in its run...

Palladium has no generic version; adapted corebooks only.

Jovian Chronicles and Heavy Gear don't seem to have done well as a generic engine; the adapted cores model is what they appear to be using now.

Only going to respond to the ones I know...

Most, I would go so far as to say a vast majority of generic systems came out of a standalone. Someone wrote a cool game, and some people said "You know, this core mechanic is pretty sweet. You know what I wish I could play with it..."

Cortex Plus does in fact have a generic core, I would argue each of the variants in the Hacker's Guide are a generic core. But they came out of other games. 2d20 is getting a generic core, as stated by the team at Modiphius, but it's coming out of other games first. Savage Worlds came (with a hop-skip) from Deadlands. The Hero System came from Champions. Cypher System (generic book here) came out of Numenera. Fate Core came out of Spirit of the Century (will cede to pedants). And regarding GURPS, the first edition, as I recall, launched by itself, not with Fantasy, etc, and mostly came out of The Fantasy Trip way back in the 80s.

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Okay. Taking out Android and Runebound as per OP's post. Below are a few settings that FFG owns and can run with to start with.

  • Fireborn - Mythic/Modern setting playing ancient dragons reincarnated into human bodies in London. Better than it sounds. Small audience.
  • Twilight Imperium - Galactic military spare opera. Based on the best-selling boardgame. Decent sized audience.
  • Legend of the 5 Rings - Probably THE game for fantasy samurai. Insanely in depth lore. Dedicated fanbase.
  • Midnight - Dark fantasy setting where evil won. Small audience.
  • Tannhäuser - WW2 alternate history setting. Small audience, but a lot of WW2 enthusiasts.

So I think FFG are going to be fine for a while. And they've got a lot of talented people on board. I'm sure they've got more ideas up their sleeve.

And if they run out of ideas, they can always PM me. I've got a few brilliant ideas, as always. :)

Edited by lumia2

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I agree with most of what BigKahuna says above (and now CitizenKeen and his comments). As a lover of generic systems in general (pun somewhat intended) I feel that the simulation of the feel for a game and the requirements (do we need a system focused on crunch, hard boiled, Narritive, fast Chargen, etc.) I mean it's a toolbox, right? 

So, for me, Hero (champions) was my standard... especially in 4th edition. I could make that system do what I wanted no worries.... but Chargen (character generation) was pretty long, even at it's fastest, and needed me there working with people. more so as editions went on. I now use their on line resource to make characters, which ties me to a computer, if I want to make characters. So now it's my "Large powers and cinematic assumptions generic"

Savage Worlds is good for me for a fast game. Combat goes quick, and with it's miniatures background, it's designed as such. The one page adventures I've gotten and used, prove this more so. It's also tied, more than I'd like, to a mini's board/setup. I don't always have mini's on hand. But, it's easily portable, so it's my go anywhere/quick game system. Chargen and combat are both pretty quick. problem being difference between like classed PC's (or NPC's) If I want to do a Harry Potter game... well, since every magic user is almost like every other... then it's not that good. Spec Ops games in SW is similarly boring as everyone is basically playing the same stats, just with different personalities. GURPS is my system to rectify that.

GURPS is my hard boiled, gritty, "street level" game. From Dresden files, to a Spec ops game (As a former Airborne Infantry soldier and gun nut, the firearms in GURPS really give the feel that I want them to), so for my soldier and militariana games, GURPS can't be beat, Weapons have different stats, that mimic the differences you want to show in a "toolkit" not just "Does this one do more damage..." type thing. Accuracy, magazine size, ease or complexity of autofire. Really my only gripe is that all in all, in GURPS, other than ammo conservation, why not autofire, When, in IRL, when I do it, it becomes especially difficult to hit what I'm aiming at, especially with a .50 cal, but GURPS makes it more likely to hit. But, you can't win 'em all.

Basic Roleplay I don't really use that much anymore, TBH. I prefer just using Stormbringer, Elf Quest, and CoC in their elements, and even CoC I normally port out to either SW or GURPS. 

TriStat... well This is another one like BRP. I used it for very Anime theme's, but recently I've come to the realization that most "anime that can't be covered by Hero, Savage Worlds, or GURPS really centers around what I call the Will-Fighter. Bleach, Naurto, many others all center around this character who's real "power" is the Will to carry on (peter parker/Spiderman suffers from this to an american extent). They get beat initially, into a bloody pulp, and only then does their "fight" start to show. I've found no system that can properly mimic this, and will continue to look, but Cowboy Bebop, any of the above can do "that game" Bubblegum Crisis, already played it in Palladium, Hero, GURPS, etc. So Tristat is still on my shelf, but it's collecting dust.

The D6 System - it was my pick up game before Savage Worlds came out. I was able to do a fairly fast port of the Marvel Card based RPG (using the SAGA system) and liked that much better than the system I ported it from. I still like it for a quick pickup game... But the later iterations of the system gave it too much bloat. Most of my time in this system was in the D6 Star Wars game, or their Metabaraons (a comic out of the "art" rag Heavy Metal).

This one, has the potential to knock GURPS from the king of my mountain. As it could be fast chargen, fast play, highly narrative content, scalability, and enough "crunch..." I really want to see what they do for their magic system(s), and how they handle the species/Career/Spec setup in this new iteration. 

To the point of this general thread. Generic systems have been a nitch within a nitch of RPG's for a long time. They have the potential to just hang on. GURPS now has, like, 3 guys working on it. Hero has been the same for a while. I think SW has been a bit more than that... and don't really know as much about some of the more indi stuff out there... though I've got spirit of the century, and dresden files stuff.... just haven't found a group to play those with.

But more now since the rise of the D20 takeover of the TTRPG market, we are living in a world where other games are getting their weight, and some press time... I think that's awesome. I'm definitely getting this when it comes out... I'm just not really sure where in my systems it's going to fit. 

Obviously it'll be the home of Star Wars for the foreseeable future. possibly the L5R stuff, however I still have the complete set of 1st edition D10 RVK Books, and have no desire to play that in any other system. because I too believe that D&D does D&D best, Star Wars does Star Wars best, L5R does L5R best, Elf Quest does Elf Quest best... but for everything that doesn't fit, and all the stories you want to tell.. there's a generic system out there that will work perfectly.

Edited by Hexnwolf

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@Hexnwolf - I'm fairly interested in a modern setting that is paramilitary in nature - spies, mercs, etc. I was trying to figure out how I'd approach handguns in the event they're not covered - and if they are, at launch they're unlikely to comtemplate scenarios where a series of modifications can be employed to enhance the usability, at the expense of concealability.

If I start a thread to Genesys for modern games, would you be interested in discussing some of that detail?

 

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23 hours ago, Endersai said:

@Hexnwolf - I'm fairly interested in a modern setting that is paramilitary in nature - spies, mercs, etc. I was trying to figure out how I'd approach handguns in the event they're not covered - and if they are, at launch they're unlikely to comtemplate scenarios where a series of modifications can be employed to enhance the usability, at the expense of concealability.

If I start a thread to Genesys for modern games, would you be interested in discussing some of that detail?

 

Sure man. My old group was pretty military heavy, my buddy and I went airborne infantry when we were in the army, so there's that. My buddy is more of a spec ops nerd than I am, but I have some carryover because friends talk, n' stuff. But I'd be happy to man.

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On 7/5/2017 at 11:06 AM, 2P51 said:

Out of here with your facts, evidence and common sense! Out!! This is the internet!!! Out!!! You troublemaker!!!!

Facts and common sense?!?  Those are the hallmarks of Fake News!  Get that bird!

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On 2017-7-6 at 3:12 PM, lumia2 said:

Okay. Taking out Android and Runebound as per OP's post. Below are a few settings that FFG owns and can run with to start with.

  • Fireborn - Mythic/Modern setting playing ancient dragons reincarnated into human bodies in London. Better than it sounds. Small audience.
  • Twilight Imperium - Galactic military spare opera. Based on the best-selling boardgame. Decent sized audience.
  • Legend of the 5 Rings - Probably THE game for fantasy samurai. Insanely in depth lore. Dedicated fanbase.
  • Midnight - Dark fantasy setting where evil won. Small audience.
  • Tannhäuser - WW2 alternate history setting. Small audience, but a lot of WW2 enthusiasts.

So I think FFG are going to be fine for a while. And they've got a lot of talented people on board. I'm sure they've got more ideas up their sleeve.

And if they run out of ideas, they can always PM me. I've got a few brilliant ideas, as always. :)

Android and runebound are the only confirmed settings so far, that's enough for me to buy in.

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On 06/07/2017 at 3:20 PM, Hexnwolf said:

I've come to the realization that most "anime that can't be covered by Hero, Savage Worlds, or GURPS really centers around what I call the Will-Fighter. Bleach, Naurto, many others all center around this character who's real "power" is the Will to carry on (peter parker/Spiderman suffers from this to an american extent). They get beat initially, into a bloody pulp, and only then does their "fight" start to show. I've found no system that can properly mimic this, and will continue to look

Fate Core may be the system you are looking for. It was actually designed with the intent of, ultimately, writing an RPG for the Dresden Files books, a series famous for having a character who spends the first 80% of every book having the tar kicked out of him. 

Early in a game arc you are suppose to get set backs and take beatings, which let you accrue Fate Points, for these to be used in the ultimate showdown of the adventure and so overcome an enemy or obstacle that would otherwise be far to difficult for the character(s). 

It requires a lot of meta-buy-in from the players but can deliver an experience where the only way to win in the end is to ride the wave of misfortune. 

Edited by dbm_

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On 7/9/2017 at 3:09 PM, dbm_ said:

Fate Core may be the system you are looking for. It was actually designed with the intent of, ultimately, writing an RPG for the Dresden Files books, a series famous for having a character who spends the first 80% of every book having the tar kicked out of him. 

Early in a game arc you are suppose to get set backs and take beatings, which let you accrue Fate Points, for these to be used in the ultimate showdown of the adventure and so overcome an enemy or obstacle that would otherwise be far to difficult for the character(s). 

It requires a lot of meta-buy-in from the players but can deliver an experience where the only way to win in the end is to ride the wave of misfortune. 

I'll certainly have to check it out. But I've got to get to an area where I've got some good gamers. My current group is my Brother in law's friends. who have spent almost their entire gaming time playing Warhammer 40K and Magic the Gathering... They have a hard time treating even D&D as something other than basically a table version of Diablo. I mean, I should give them some credit, as they are trying... (very trying, LOL) and I'm doing EotE with them, but it's pretty hard work. I think something that level would just break them at this point. That said, when I lived in Ohio, I had a much more narrative group. I could do on line, but... personally it comes close, but doesn't really scratch the itch (that may have something to do with having 4 kids ages 2-9, And not much free time... lol).

 

That all being said... I have the PDF's, I just haven't spent time reading them. Thank you for the mini-review, I'll take it into consideration when I do get the chance.

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On 2.7.2017 at 8:52 PM, Desslok said:

Um, GURPS and HERO? They're still going strong, even 30 years later.

Ahhhh, while it causes physical pain to call into question a point that my favourite penguin has raised, I cannot avoid doing so here. As far as (my former favourite roleplaying game system) GURPS is concerned I wouldn't consider "going strong" a truly 100% accurate synonym for "still existing". Considering the amount of materiel published since 5ed came out it has almost ground to a halt.

But that is of course beside the point here. And GURPS still rules as far as background books with thorough research is concerned!

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4 hours ago, Spraug said:

Ahhhh, while it causes physical pain to call into question a point that my favourite penguin has raised, I cannot avoid doing so here. As far as (my former favourite roleplaying game system) GURPS is concerned I wouldn't consider "going strong" a truly 100% accurate synonym for "still existing". Considering the amount of materiel published since 5ed came out it has almost ground to a halt.

But that is of course beside the point here. And GURPS still rules as far as background books with thorough research is concerned!

Yes.

HERO is my group's primary system, and has been for 20 years, but "going strong" is not a descriptor of the publishing schedule/company right now, sadly.

 

My interest in Genesys is that it is a generic system. I liked what little I knew of the Star Wars games, but I've never really wanted to game in that universe - the movies and books are good enough for me.

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21 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

Did you mean 4th ed GURPS, or did they do an entire new edition that I missed?

Lol, sorry, of course it's 4th ed. (in fifth printing). 5th ed is the one I was dreaming of. ;)

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Eh, that's what I get for only playing Star Wars. I see still HERO and GURPS on the shelves and I assumed that they were still spitting out supplements all the time. 

Still, that was a 25-30 year run for both. Pretty impressive.

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If Genesys manages to let people play their popular TV shows in a way that works, which, by far not every so called generic system manages like the Cypher System, which is not a iota generic, Genesys might be an interesting alternative. No setting needed but your own ideas you always wanted ti rp.

Edited by DarthDude

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