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Viktor Hel pilot ability

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58 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

You're obviously entitled to your opinion :) Personally I feel quite a few things on that list were worse than Attani.

 

I can however assure you there WILL be more stuff like that in the future. The guys at FFG are doing their best, but are humans working on a deadline. Mistakes have happened, and will happen again sooner or later.

Yep, sure of course. I'm not against FFG (: I just prefer some triggered or sneaky things like Cap Nym or the Mapfield. 

 

Anyway I like Mindlink per sè. But I don't like the mix of it and large ships with a lot of greens. 

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8 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

If Expose were simply +1 Attack and -1 Agility with no Action: requirement, it might be playable on a couple ships.  Even then it might should cost 3 points.

As is, it's fun with shenanigans on RAC, and that's about it.

Expose TIE-Swarm would be hilarious. 5 TIE-Fighters with Focus + Howlrunner on 3 atk. ^_^ Almost like an Attani list. 

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3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Expose TIE-Swarm would be hilarious. 5 TIE-Fighters with Focus + Howlrunner on 3 atk. ^_^ Almost like an Attani list. 

I cannot help but notice that BSPs with 3pt EPTs are the same price as an Imperial Trainee... who would also have 3 attack and 2 agi.

And a bonus hitpoint.

You might have fun with Decimators, but it really showcases just how problematic the card was, eh?

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14 minutes ago, Reiver said:

I cannot help but notice that BSPs with 3pt EPTs are the same price as an Imperial Trainee... who would also have 3 attack and 2 agi.

And a bonus hitpoint.

You might have fun with Decimators, but it really showcases just how problematic the card was, eh?

But those BSPs would also be sporting Crackshot...

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3 hours ago, Reiver said:

I cannot help but notice that BSPs with 3pt EPTs are the same price as an Imperial Trainee... who would also have 3 attack and 2 agi.

And a bonus hitpoint.

You might have fun with Decimators, but it really showcases just how problematic the card was, eh?

Expose ones would come with the advantage of being able to not take expose to keep themselves up a little longer once the focus of the opposing attacks has been determined. 

But it does indeed highlight what is wrong with that EPT. Basically everything, price, action requirement both hurt the card heavily. The drawback itself seems mostly fine, as we can see with different ships which come with basically expose build into their frame. 

 

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Quote

There was nothing like as AM before in my opinion. I hate the combination of AM with Jumpmasters and Shadowcasters. 

did you miss Deadeye/Overclocked Torpedo Jumpmasters, or the original Cloaking rules Echo & Whisper?

Quote

Course it's only youngster thats wasting points on expose, so it isnt a perfect comparison

Indeed. In Epic, I've used a full crack shot/expose/howlrunner TIE squadron. That was moderately terrifying (especially since my first opponent hadn't realised quite how important the opening salvo in an epic game is....)

Expose is...so so at best. As noted, the extra die is rarely a good substitute for a focus token, and the main means you have of getting a second action is the elite slot you just filled. Glitterstim is a decent substitute, but stressing yourself takes away a lot of the value of stressing out the enemy...

 

 

Victor's pilot ability is good. But whilst useful, it's more discouraging your opponent from shooting than actually really hurting them. Letting your opponent stick more damage on him is only going to help so much.

You can equip him with a cloaking device, but because that's unique, I'd rather keep that for Talonbane Cobra, who can pair it with vectored thrusters and get seriously squirrely when trying to zip from range 3 to range 1.

Viktor's pilot ability is just a 'nice-to-have' - he's the same price as Graz, with a higher PS and an elite upgrade. Think of him like Maarek Stele (TIE defender) - you're buying him for a cheap PS bid that can reach PS9 with Veteran Instincts, not normally to build a ship or even squad round his ability.

I would recommend giving Viktor range 3 missiles - because the range 3 defence bonus is a good thing to have, made better. Giving him veteran instincts makes it easier to get Range 3 target locks, and even with VI he's cheaper than Talonbane. That then gives you a nasty pair of PS9 ordnance boats (but with missiles rather than torpedoes) - the one with +2 dice for range 3, or the one which stresses you to shoot at them. The fact that a Vaksai can pack guidance chips and a budget stealth device makes it even more appealing.

Alternatively, Trick Shot, Interial Dampeners and Vectored Thrusters won't break the bank, and combined with Victor's ability and the Khiraxz' good slow-turns dial, makes for a very nasty person to face in a dense asteroid belt.

 

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22 hours ago, Cerve said:

Anyway I'm not sure that on Viktor (and only on him) Expose will not value 4 points. It adds punch and a stress mechanics at the cost of -1 agi.

I should try him. 

Technically on Viktor, Expose will not value 4 points with the Vaksai title...

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8 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Technically on Viktor, Expose will not value 4 points with the Vaksai title...

That's true! So will it value 3 points after all? Mmm...

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Oh - with a scavvy crane you can potentially recycle the stealth device a couple of times, too.

 

I guess you could treat Victor Hel/Expose the same as a lot of people used to treat talonbane cobra - as a cheap kamikaze to slam into range 1 of people, hoping he'll take someone with him (much the same as Fenn Rau gets used now, albeit he's much tougher).

Victor Hel - Vaksai, Expose, Glitterstim, Experimental Interface gives you a 5-dice, range 1 target lock/focused 5 dice attack. Granted, he's probably not walking away from it either, but you should be able to trade him for a big piece of something important.

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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23 hours ago, Reiver said:

Cloaking device, too. It won't last long, but having a ship so singularly unappealing to shoot at has value in and of itself, sometimes.

Still, it's those two or you depend on range 3 and rocks. Not impossible, but not reliable either.

Or, for the maximum jank:

Viktor Hel, Title, Cloaking Device, Stygium.

Flavor to taste.

Practically useless? Yep.

Really fun? Also yep.

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12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Oh - with a scavvy crane you can potentially recycle the stealth device a couple of times, too.

 

I guess you could treat Victor Hel/Expose the same as a lot of people used to treat talonbane cobra - as a cheap kamikaze to slam into range 1 of people, hoping he'll take someone with him (much the same as Fenn Rau gets used now, albeit he's much tougher).

Victor Hel - Vaksai, Expose, Glitterstim, Experimental Interface gives you a 5-dice, range 1 target lock/focused 5 dice attack. Granted, he's probably not walking away from it either, but you should be able to trade him for a big piece of something important.

 

I feel once you've shoved an upgrade the price of Engine Upgrade on a 5HP, 2AGI ship, it doesn't really qualify as 'cheap' any more, even with the 1pt discount...

 

8 hours ago, ianediger said:

Or, for the maximum jank:

Viktor Hel, Title, Cloaking Device, Stygium.

Flavor to taste.

Practically useless? Yep.

Really fun? Also yep.

Dont forget you do actually want people to shoot at you. ;)

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Stress dealing is very good right now so I have some hope for Viktor. Especially as he is costed correctly. The fact that  he can potentially stress multiple enemy ships in a round is the exploitable power of his ability. It directly counters Mindlink. Rebel Captive is the direct comparison and it is limited to giving 1 stress per round.

Stealth Device, with Scavenger Crane would seem to be the best stand alone option.

For the truly creative, pair him with Sarco in a Quadjumper with recon spec and Bodyguard. :)

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18 hours ago, Dengar5 said:

Stress dealing is very good right now so I have some hope for Viktor. Especially as he is costed correctly. The fact that  he can potentially stress multiple enemy ships in a round is the exploitable power of his ability. It directly counters Mindlink. Rebel Captive is the direct comparison and it is limited to giving 1 stress per round.

Stealth Device, with Scavenger Crane would seem to be the best stand alone option.

For the truly creative, pair him with Sarco in a Quadjumper with recon spec and Bodyguard. :)

Mmm I like the Bodyguard flavour but not on Sarco. If he needs to take the focus, he will not Tractor. And if so, the Quadjumper becomes useless.

 

Guri maybe?

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On 7/3/2017 at 4:07 PM, Dengar5 said:

Stress dealing is very good right now so I have some hope for Viktor.

I think Viktor will fly in most of my stress exploiting lists.

Since Black Market Slicer Tools (BMST) is Scum specific and is a good anti-PTL/K-turn feature I am becoming more proficient dealing and exploiting stress. Additionally, BMST damage can trigger Captain Jostero's ability and my dedicated BMST ships are usually 13 pt. Slicer Pirates. Outfitting Vikotr and Jostero with Scavenger Cranes leverages the loss of the fragile but inexpensive Slicer Pirates.

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Everygame I play against a list with Expertise, my view of it skews towards it being an incredibly powerful upgrade. Stress is it's direct counter. Viktor Hel can be a part of that. There are only a handful of ship builds that directly counter Expertise.

Ships that counter Expertise:

  • Asajj Ventress (deals stress before combat phase)
  • Wes Janson, VI, R3-A2 (PS10 stress & anti-ordnance) (This build has shown up in regional winning lists before)
  • Serissu or Genesis Red, VI, Flechette Cannon (counters expertise & can be very useful against Miranda or Nym) (just be sure the rest of your list can deal the damage)

Here's a full on 99 point Scum stress list where Viktor Hel would be very scary.

  • Viktor Hel - Predator, Scavenger Crane, Stealth Device, Vectored Thrusters, Pulsed-Ray Shield (32)
  • Genesis Red - VI, Flechette Cannon, Heavy Scyk (24)
  • Bossk - VI, Dengar, Tactician, Zuckuss, Burnout-SLAM (43)

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I really wanna do Viktor and Assaj but with Stealth Device and Scavenger Crane on Viktor and Mindlink on both, that only leaves 32 points.  Which Fenn fits into nicely but I'm less and less convinced that Fenn works at the moment.  The PS war is real and he struggles to compete in it.

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17 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I really wanna do Viktor and Assaj but with Stealth Device and Scavenger Crane on Viktor and Mindlink on both, that only leaves 32 points.  Which Fenn fits into nicely but I'm less and less convinced that Fenn works at the moment.  The PS war is real and he struggles to compete in it.

Guri with Intensity & Autothrusters is 31 points with the new title. (there are better EPT's than Mindlink nowadays) Turrets are everywhere and I'm suspecting that Starvipers are going to be the best performing autothruster ships. Their low cost and 5 hitpoints are what give them efficiency. With PS11 Imperial alpha strike around, it's not worth fighting the PS war. Comboing ships like Guri with Intel Agent is the elegant solution.

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7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

We're actually in a meta where RAC with EI and Expose (and Palp and Kylo) could theoretically do some nastiness.  But pretty much only RAC, because of the build in eyeball mod.

VI and EU or GTFO. I will say that RAC is basically the only ship you COULD make a case for expose, but Kylo is much better at PS 10 and arc dodging helps your deci not immediately go up in flames. Plus Expose and EI ar 7 pts better spent elsewhere. 

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