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burek277

Discarding cards for strain

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Mathematically it's simply true you don't draw less cards, just different ones. So in that aspect the consideration is to not run out of cards.

Then, given that there are cards (devotion) that can search for other cards, there is a chance you actually reduce options through discarding.

Finally, there's the access to information, which is a real and significant factor. 

I'd argue that these last two should be weighed against how much you increase the odds of your targeted figure surviving the attack/how much it matters if that figure lives or dies. This is list and boardstate dependent though, so I feel it will be hard to formulate a general rule or strategy for this.

 

Edited by Jimmy Caladro

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1 hour ago, ryanjamal said:

I agree with your math, and I agree with the above example you gave (when you quoted me above). I'm just saying that those are pretty narrow parameters. You're mainly arguing about mathematical probabilities, which I concur with, but strategically I'm still left with feeling that it's often best to discard a card. You gave the example of  game where I no longer had devotion and knew the game would end the following round. In that case I would dump the card. But if it's early game I still want to keep my cards if at all possible. And there's the open information aspect, as discussed above, which may mean I'd opt for damage instead (especially if it's a figure with, say, two health left; that guy's dying the next attack regardless). 

-ryanjamal 

Exactly the point I've been trying to make! When you narrow the situation into something (for sure last round), not taking a damage doesn't make any sense, because in most cases all remaining command cards will be waste cards. However, like @ryanjamal said, when things are that cut and dry, the mathematical probabilities are not the only thing to consider.

Edited by wannabepudge

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I do understand the logic of not wanting to let the opponent see that you've discarded SoS or Take Initiative or whatever, and how it could change your play.  But I feel like people are giving it a bit too much weight.  If you've got 10 cards left in your deck and you haven't drawn Take Initiative or SoS then there's a 20% chance that you'll show your opponent a card that may significantly change how they play.  Is that 20% chance (which really isn't that big) worth taking the damage that could end up saving your opponent an attack action or forcing them to play another card?  I'd say probably not, but maybe (such as in @ryanjamal's example above with the two-health figure who's about to bite it).

At that point it really becomes a personal valuation, and you have to weigh the pros and cons based on the situation and based on your own risk tolerance.  I'd still say that people are often a bit too conservative, but that's just my opinion and I've been known to be wrong before :P.

I think the salient point in all this, though, is that many people still have it stuck in their heads that discarding a card is inherently more risky than not drawing a card.  If you elect to take the damage because you've looked at the board state and you feel like the chance of depriving your opponent of information is more important than taking the hit, then you've made a reasoned tactical decision and that's a great thing.  But if your decision was based on the fact that "I don't want to discard because I might lose a good card!" then your thinking is flawed, full stop.

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Keeping a character on the board has more value than a card. However one card is more valuable than one damage. The key is figuring out when keeping a character on the board means you don't take one damage. You have to know the average hit of your opponents attack, likely character to do that attack, and if that one damage means death or requiring your opponent to burn yet another attack. This is why that one HP between and HK and eWeequay is huge.

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Best discusion I've seen on these boards for a while guys, great points on both sides. 

I think the important decision is to bear all these points in mind when making that decision based on the game state, what cards have gone, your opponents list etc. And you won't go far wrong. 

 

So after some great arguments made on both sides and us all having a better understanding of the impact of both actions, we have come to the unanimous conclusion that the answer to:

"should I discard a card or take the damage..." 

Is... 

"depends" 

 

:)

 

Rich

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2 hours ago, RoyalRich said:

Best discusion I've seen on these boards for a while guys, great points on both sides. 

I think the important decision is to bear all these points in mind when making that decision based on the game state, what cards have gone, your opponents list etc. And you won't go far wrong. 

 

So after some great arguments made on both sides and us all having a better understanding of the impact of both actions, we have come to the unanimous conclusion that the answer to:

"should I discard a card or take the damage..." 

Is... 

"depends" 

 

:)

 

Rich

I'd say in most scenarios the question should be "Will milling a card cause my opponent to use an extra attack killing this figure"

If the answer to that is yes and you aren't in danger of running out of cards then you should be flipping cards like no tomorrow. 

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13 hours ago, TheUnsullied said:

I'd say in most scenarios the question should be "Will milling a card cause my opponent to use an extra attack killing this figure"

If the answer to that is yes and you aren't in danger of running out of cards then you should be flipping cards like no tomorrow. 

I would change "extra attack" to "extra attack or another resource." Losing a figure to Chopper's bump, Palpatine's tempt or Terro's flame rather than leaving it on 1 health because of an extra damage you took is just as bad.

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Hey, this might be a language barrier issue but someone please explain if I have to discard one Command card for each strain or if one Command Card hinders any strains (say 2,3,4) to be suffered? The way it is phrased it certainly implies 1 for each 1, which sounds such high a costs I don't think I would ever do it. I am not worried about loosing a specific card, but if would get 3 Command Cards at start of each round and don't have Leia I would run out of Commands Cards very quickly...

Here's the quote from the reference guide: "can prevent any of this DAMAGE by discarding one Command card from the top of his deck for each STRAIN that he wishes to prevent"

Thanks all

Edited by roland4print

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24 minutes ago, roland4print said:

Hey, this might be a language barrier issue but someone please explain if I have to discard one Command card for each strain or if one Command Card hinders any strains (say 2,3,4) to be suffered? The way it is phrased it certainly implies 1 for each 1, which sounds such high a costs I don't think I would ever do it. I am not worried about loosing a specific card, but if would get 3 Command Cards at start of each round and don't have Leia I would run out of Commands Cards very quickly...

Here's the quote from the reference guide: "can prevent any of this DAMAGE by discarding one Command card from the top of his deck for each STRAIN that he wishes to prevent"

Thanks all

You discard 1 card per 1 strain. Hope that helps :)

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(Minor detail: Actually, the strain is suffered as damage instead, and discarding a card prevents one damage suffered due to suffering strain for each card discarded.

This distinction comes up when a mission rule disallows a figure suffering damage ("cannot suffer strain") - abilities with strain costs are also not possible then, because you cannot choose to suffer strain. Cannot covers both voluntarily and involuntarily suffering strain.)

 

Edited by a1bert

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Soooooo..... what you are saying is I can discard one Command Card to not suffer any number of Strain = Damage in this case? Like, a Trandoshen gives me 2 strain = 2 damage but I discard 1 Command Card to get rid of both? Sorry you two appear to contradict each other. Thanks for clarifying 

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16 minutes ago, roland4print said:

Soooooo..... what you are saying is I can discard one Command Card to not suffer any number of Strain = Damage in this case? Like, a Trandoshen gives me 2 strain = 2 damage but I discard 1 Command Card to get rid of both? Sorry you two appear to contradict each other. Thanks for clarifying 

You may discard 1 command card to prevent the "1 strain = 1 damage"

iirc Trando only give you 1 strain (when it declares an attack within 3 spaces), but if some source gives you 2 strain then yes you would have to discard 2 cards to prevent 2 damage, not 1 command card

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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎29 at 9:50 AM, burek277 said:

In skirmish, if a figure qould suffer strain, its controller may discard a card from the top of their command deck to prevent this strain. I've noticed that a lot of people don't really understand this. In short, discarding cards does NOTHING to affect the quality of your deck and outside of "tutor" effects, the ONLY consideration should be whether you think you will run out of cards in the command deck or not.

Minor elaboration: Discarding a card from the deck will absolutley affect the quality of the deck. Weather or not it affects the deck in a positive or negative way is random. Discarding a less relevant zero Point card in general improves the quality the next draw. Discarding a 3-point card in general decreases said quality.  The chance of drawing SoS in an eleven card deck increases from 1/11 to 1/10 when miling a card UNLESS the card milled is SoS. Then the chance of drawing SoS is to no suprise 0/10.

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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎30 at 11:44 PM, Mep said:

Keeping a character on the board has more value than a card. However one card is more valuable than one damage. The key is figuring out when keeping a character on the board means you don't take one damage. You have to know the average hit of your opponents attack, likely character to do that attack, and if that one damage means death or requiring your opponent to burn yet another attack. This is why that one HP between and HK and eWeequay is huge.

In general I agree, but there is sooo much more to it then this. It will depend on the number of cards remaining in your command deck, the cards drawn/discarded, the position on the board, the cards remaining in the deck that can really make a difference, the cost/role/ability of the figure, the cards in hand, has the figure activated, ...

 

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