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Budgernaut

On activating units

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I've played a few games and watched several battle reports, including demo games. One thing I've noticed a lot is the 1st player saying, "Three! Anybody have any threes?" Then the second player acknowledges that they do, and then the first player reveals that they, too, have a three. This is not in keeping with how the rules are intended to work. The key issue hear is that it forces the second player to reveal more information than they are required to by the rules.

Section 6: "During the Activation Phase, players activate each of their units, starting with the unit that has the lowest initiative and continuing in order of ascending initiative.
6.1  Players resolve the Activation Phase by counting out loud, starting with “one.” At each number during the count, the first player declares if he has a unit with an initiative value that matches that number. If he does, he activates one unit that has that initiative value. Then, the second player declares if he has a unit with that initiative value. If he does, he activates one unit that has that initiative value. This process continues back and forth until both players have activated all units with that initiative value. Then, players continue counting out loud, stopping to activate units as appropriate, until all units have activated."

The key thing is that you are not supposed to know how many units your opponent is activating at the current initiative.

Take this example. The first player has two units to activate. The second player has one. The first player asks if there are any units of the given initiative. The second player says he does. Now, depending on that initiative, the second player may have given away some crucial information. If he doesn't have very many units of that initiative, the first player now knows which unit is activating, and very likely knows which action it is doing, as well. Now the first player can use that information to choose which unit to activate first and try to mess up the second player's turn.

Likewise, you don't want to use plurals and give away how many activations you have. For example, as the first player, you don't want to say, "Fours. I have some fours." Now your opponent knows more about your activation than they should know. Maybe there's nothing they can do about it, but if they can figure out which two you are activating, then they know those units will not be activating later.
 

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Indeed.

It's an easy thing to overlook how important it can be.

Locally, we have adopted a policy of having the player with initiative do the count. If you have a unit at the initiative number, you activate it, then ask your opponent if he has any. If he does, he goes, if he doesn't you finish activating that initiative.

Rinse. Repeat.

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1 hour ago, Tvayumat said:

Indeed.

It's an easy thing to overlook how important it can be.

Locally, we have adopted a policy of having the player with initiative do the count. If you have a unit at the initiative number, you activate it, then ask your opponent if he has any. If he does, he goes, if he doesn't you finish activating that initiative.

Rinse. Repeat.

Going to steal that -- good idea.

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8 hours ago, Tvayumat said:

Indeed.

It's an easy thing to overlook how important it can be.

Locally, we have adopted a policy of having the player with initiative do the count. If you have a unit at the initiative number, you activate it, then ask your opponent if he has any. If he does, he goes, if he doesn't you finish activating that initiative.

Rinse. Repeat.

That is how we have been doing it also. But  Player 2  counting is the simplest , since it is up to Player 1 to play first when they have a unit with that initiative.    

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I do the count as the first player on any given turn, but if I've got something to activate on an initiative, I just leap straight into it. So it goes something like... "Nobody has a 1, right? Okay, do you have a two? No? Alright, I've got a three, so I'll activate this here to do such-and-such. Do you have an action on three?" and so on.

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22 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I've played a few games and watched several battle reports, including demo games. One thing I've noticed a lot is the 1st player saying, "Three! Anybody have any threes?" Then the second player acknowledges that they do, and then the first player reveals that they, too, have a three. This is not in keeping with how the rules are intended to work. The key issue hear is that it forces the second player to reveal more information than they are required to by the rules.

Section 6: "During the Activation Phase, players activate each of their units, starting with the unit that has the lowest initiative and continuing in order of ascending initiative.
6.1  Players resolve the Activation Phase by counting out loud, starting with “one.” At each number during the count, the first player declares if he has a unit with an initiative value that matches that number. If he does, he activates one unit that has that initiative value. Then, the second player declares if he has a unit with that initiative value. If he does, he activates one unit that has that initiative value. This process continues back and forth until both players have activated all units with that initiative value. Then, players continue counting out loud, stopping to activate units as appropriate, until all units have activated."

The key thing is that you are not supposed to know how many units your opponent is activating at the current initiative.

Take this example. The first player has two units to activate. The second player has one. The first player asks if there are any units of the given initiative. The second player says he does. Now, depending on that initiative, the second player may have given away some crucial information. If he doesn't have very many units of that initiative, the first player now knows which unit is activating, and very likely knows which action it is doing, as well. Now the first player can use that information to choose which unit to activate first and try to mess up the second player's turn.

Likewise, you don't want to use plurals and give away how many activations you have. For example, as the first player, you don't want to say, "Fours. I have some fours." Now your opponent knows more about your activation than they should know. Maybe there's nothing they can do about it, but if they can figure out which two you are activating, then they know those units will not be activating later.
 

Well said.  I made sure when my girl and I started playing we got this right.

Our practice is the first player calls it outsaying "i don't have any 1s" then waiting for the opponnt "I do not have any 1s"  and so on.  Even though we both know nobody can activate on 1 yet but it got us into the good rythem.

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