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devotedknight

Would Ruthlessness work well with TLT?

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I'm gonna say yes. If both attacks hit, each would proc Ruthlessness.

That actually sounds kinda nasty. Shame there isn't a generic Aggressor with an EPT.

Kinda makes me want to fly this when I finally get my aggressors.

“Double Edge” (30)
TIE Aggressor (19), Ruthlessness (3), Unguided Rockets (2), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Lieutenant Kestal (33)
TIE Aggressor (22), Ruthlessness (3), Unguided Rockets (2), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Darth Vader (37)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Predator (3), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Up to 4 points of damage from Ruthlessness, and Vader can fly escort as you buzz around the board.

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I'm pretty sure it proc's twice per TLT. Since Ruthlessness says "After you perform an attack that hits". And TLT says "Perform this attack twice".

TLT's wording also says "When this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage, then cancel all dice results".

So obviously, each TLT shot is itself an individual attack that can hit. Both Ruthlessness and the TLT itself have the same trigger(attack that hits).

So the order would be,

Declare shot with TLT.

1st Attack: Hits. Defender suffers 1 damage. After performing this attack that hit, another ship at range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage.

2nd attack: Hits. Defender suffers 1 damage. After performing this attack that hit, another ship at range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage.

 

Each TLT shot is an individual attack. Thus anything that triggers off an attack will trigger off it resolving, and resolve before you make the 2nd TLT shot.

Edited by BadMotivator

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2 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

I'm pretty sure it proc's twice per TLT. Since Ruthlessness says "After you perform an attack that hits". And TLT says "Perform this attack twice".

TLT's wording also says "When this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage, then cancel all dice results".

So obviously, each TLT shot is itself an individual attack that can hit. Both Ruthlessness and the TLT itself have the same trigger(attack that hits).

So the order would be,

Declare shot with TLT.

1st Attack: Hits. Defender suffers 1 damage. After performing this attack that hit, another ship at range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage.

2nd attack: Hits. Defender suffers 1 damage. After performing this attack that hit, another ship at range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage.

 

Each TLT shot is an individual attack. Thus anything that triggers off an attack will trigger off it resolving, and resolve before you make the 2nd TLT shot.

You'd be wrong. TLT is a single attack - hence it only working once with Miranda, tactician, stressbot, etc etc.

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4 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

I'm pretty sure it proc's twice per TLT. Since Ruthlessness says "After you perform an attack that hits". And TLT says "Perform this attack twice".

TLT's wording also says "When this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage, then cancel all dice results".

So obviously, each TLT shot is itself an individual attack that can hit. Both Ruthlessness and the TLT itself have the same trigger(attack that hits).

So the order would be,

Declare shot with TLT.

1st Attack: Hits. Defender suffers 1 damage. After performing this attack that hit, another ship at range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage.

2nd attack: Hits. Defender suffers 1 damage. After performing this attack that hit, another ship at range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage.

 

Each TLT shot is an individual attack. Thus anything that triggers off an attack will trigger off it resolving, and resolve before you make the 2nd TLT shot.

You would have been correct before the timing chart clarification.

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9 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

So obviously, each TLT shot is itself an individual attack that can hit.

Since the timing chart I think of TLT as two phases of one attack.  Only one phase has to hit for the attack as a whole to hit.  If both phases hit the attack as a whole has still only hit once.

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35 minutes ago, Incard said:

Also great against Rebel lists with Biggs.

Indeed. Whilst swarms aren't all that common, finding a single enemy ship within range to 'splash' damage isn't rare, and Biggs is an especially common case. Double Edge is probably a good case for this; with a Twin Laser Turret he's got three bites at getting 'a hit' provided he's lined up on a target, whilst Lt Kestal is best used turret-firing at autothruster aces, who probably aren't flying in formation with one another.

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3 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Since the timing chart I think of TLT as two phases of one attack.  Only one phase has to hit for the attack as a whole to hit.  If both phases hit the attack as a whole has still only hit once.

Not quite accurate.

With Perform This Attack Twice (PTAT) weapons, there's only one instance of the After Attacking trigger point, which takes place only after both the component attacks have resolved.

So Ruthlessness only has one chance to trigger, for both attacks.

It's still probably at its best with TLT, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's *good* still.

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10 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

I'm gonna say yes. If both attacks hit, each would proc Ruthlessness.

That actually sounds kinda nasty. Shame there isn't a generic Aggressor with an EPT.

Kinda makes me want to fly this when I finally get my aggressors.

“Double Edge” (30)
TIE Aggressor (19), Ruthlessness (3), Unguided Rockets (2), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Lieutenant Kestal (33)
TIE Aggressor (22), Ruthlessness (3), Unguided Rockets (2), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Darth Vader (37)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Predator (3), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Up to 4 points of damage from Ruthlessness, and Vader can fly escort as you buzz around the board.

 

1 hour ago, Incard said:

Also great against Rebel lists with Biggs.

I really dig this idea as a pre-nerf Biggs attack; but with Wookie Gunships arriving with the aggressor, Biggs might not be the man by then. However, it will splash a close Selflessness carrying ship too huh?

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3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Not quite accurate.

With Perform This Attack Twice (PTAT) weapons, there's only one instance of the After Attacking trigger point, which takes place only after both the component attacks have resolved.

So Ruthlessness only has one chance to trigger, for both attacks.

It's still probably at its best with TLT, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's *good* still.

Thought that's what I said.  Obviously not! :lol:

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42 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Mostly you did, but 'two phases of one attack' isn't *quite* accurate.

Cool... My casual land brain tends to short circuit steps on the timing chart which I suppose lets small (but significant) inaccuracies to creep in. :)

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6 hours ago, HammerGibbens said:

Countdown maybe? Since he never counts as "getting hit."

He's not immune to it but he makes his allies immune to it, up to once per round (more with Yorr).  He wouldn't work against ruthlessness TLT either unless one of the shots missed naturally and he made the other miss as well.e

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I would argue that "after you perform an attack that hits" is a much different trigger than "after attacking," so Ruthlessness should work for both TLT shots, assuming both shots hit the target.  I don't believe they actually cover this situation in the timing chart. 

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