Why Rogue One is THE Best Star Wars Film Since Return Of The Jedi

[DampfGecko 571]

I think I'd like to point out something rather obvious but comparatively rarely mentioned- the amazing attention to detail. I'm not even talking about the adherence to the art style of the OT, but the small things that make this movie worth watching multiple times and provide something extra to each scene and the movie as a whole.

For example: The Erso's home burning in the background after the Death Trooper finds the Stormtrooper doll- something they did to "find the child".

One of them actively aiming to the side of Chirrut to kill him indirectly. The TiE Reaper on the Rings of Kafrene. Nearly everything rummaging around in the streets of Jedha.  And of course the obvious stuff, the Ghost, D'jarek and all the other little things, such as the empty escape pod bays of the Hammerhead that we've all seen and spotted, or been told about.

 

You know, the endless list of little things that define Star Wars as the "lived in" universe, setting the stakes and defining the distribution of power and understanding through visuals alone. That Rogue put in this kind of effort even when not centering the camera on it makes it all just feel that much more organic.

[Sasajak 1,348]

On 28/06/2017 at 2:21 PM, ViscerothSWG said:

While I disagree with you about Rogue One, I agree completely about Godzilla. Such a bad film!

I was very excited to see the Edwards Godzilla as his previous and first film, Monsters, is pretty amazing for a low budget affair.  I was very disappointed; such an awful film.  When Edwards was picked for Rogue One I had very mixed feelings and when the pathetic teaser trailer landed I thought it was going to be really bad.  The full trailer however got my positive attention back.  When I saw Rogue One for the first time I was pretty bowled over and after repeated viewings, for me, it's my second favourite film after ESB.

[Scopes 530]

On 6/25/2017 at 4:32 AM, Admiral Deathrain said:

I feel that is where the reshoots really hurt that movie. I will still watch it for the finale, but oh man does that movie wear its production history on it face.

What do you mean? 

[Scopes 530]

On 7/15/2017 at 9:48 PM, DampfGecko said:

I think I'd like to point out something rather obvious but comparatively rarely mentioned- the amazing attention to detail. I'm not even talking about the adherence to the art style of the OT, but the small things that make this movie worth watching multiple times and provide something extra to each scene and the movie as a whole.

For example: The Erso's home burning in the background after the Death Trooper finds the Stormtrooper doll- something they did to "find the child".

One of them actively aiming to the side of Chirrut to kill him indirectly. The TiE Reaper on the Rings of Kafrene. Nearly everything rummaging around in the streets of Jedha.  And of course the obvious stuff, the Ghost, D'jarek and all the other little things, such as the empty escape pod bays of the Hammerhead that we've all seen and spotted, or been told about.

 

You know, the endless list of little things that define Star Wars as the "lived in" universe, setting the stakes and defining the distribution of power and understanding through visuals alone. That Rogue put in this kind of effort even when not centering the camera on it makes it all just feel that much more organic.

What? Where? 

 

[DampfGecko 571]

On 21.7.2017 at 5:46 AM, Scopes said:

What? Where? 

 

It's been pointed out by several outlets, not the least of which the Star Wars show, if I'm not mistaken. That then went around the usual YouTube channels, news sites and so on. It's been suggested and repeated quite a lot, so searching for "What happened to the Hammerhead Crew?" will probably already show you fine results.

Anyway, it was said that the empty pod bays could be seen, and sure enough, I sat down with the wookiepedia page open and my finger on the zoom button to find the **** fickle things. And sure enough, when you stop the film right before the falling ISD is shown from the far away perspective, zooming in shows you several dark holes on the side of the Hammerhead that, should the pods still be in there, would have to be either lighter in shade or even completely missing due to shutter doors still closing neatly with the hull, as far as I can tell.

However, the way I see it, that was probably the crew that evacuated before that suicidal manouvre. And we all know what happened to people on the surface of Scarif eventually...

Well, as the saying goes, heroes are the ones who pay the tab for all.

Edit: Totally forgot to write about the TiE Reaper. Right before Cassian appears for the first time, it flies right overhead. That's also shown on the bonus disc.

Edited July 23, 2017 by DampfGecko

[Verlaine 1,647]

Rogue One is certainly not the best Star Wars film since ROTJ, but I like how it pays tribute to the saga's chiastic structure: "I am one with the force/the force is with me". 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

14 hours ago, Verlaine said:

Rogue One is certainly not the best Star Wars film since ROTJ...

...Caravan of Courage doesn't count.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

On 21/07/2017 at 4:46 AM, Scopes said:

What? Where? 

 

The Reaper is visible in the inital shot just after the long range shot of the location, as the camera pans down into the trench-like street, flying straight down above the trench. 

[Scopes 530]

9 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The Reaper is visible in the inital shot just after the long range shot of the location, as the camera pans down into the trench-like street, flying straight down above the trench. 

Not sure how I missed that. Thanks, though, for pointing it out. 

[BenderIsGreat 685]

I thought the most interesting characters were Chirrut and Baze. I could've watched an entire movie starring those guys.
Jyn was boring, could've been replaced by a message carried by an R2 unit (the R2 could've blown out the window, flown up, and gotten the hard drive, too) and I wouldn't have missed her. There, I said it. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by BenderIsGreat
content

[DampfGecko 571]

On 27.7.2017 at 7:11 PM, BenderIsGreat said:

I thought the most interesting characters were Chirrut and Baze. I could've watched an entire movie starring those guys.
Jyn was boring, could've been replaced by a message carried by an R2 unit (the R2 could've blown out the window, flown up, and gotten the hard drive, too) and I wouldn't have missed her. There, I said it. 

Well, I for one am not the biggest fan of the addition to flight thrusters on R2, so prefer JN- RS0 to any other such unit

Seriously though, I found each of the characters to be quite engaging. Jyn, after all, has some quite painful background both shown and and hinted at. And thus beatifully completes her arc after being told by Cassian that "her father would be proud". Remember, this is a man that almost killed her father, but their mutual respect has grown over the **** they've been through together, respect that in Cassian's case is not easily earned. 

By the way, thank GOD they kept that relationship platonic. That would have severely lessened the impact of that "accepting the inevitable"- hug at the end.

[Astech 1,540]

On 26/07/2017 at 4:40 AM, Verlaine said:

Rogue One is certainly not the best Star Wars film since ROTJ, but I like how it pays tribute to the saga's chiastic structure: "I am one with the force/the force is with me". 

I think that such a definitive statement requires justification. Are you saying that one of the prequels is a better move, or TFA? If it's the former, you're going against the vast majority. And for the latter, TFA was rife with major errors.

The real-world parallels to major religions is very nice, and it was great to see some of the "lesser" followers getting decent screen time.

[Verlaine 1,647]

6 minutes ago, Astech said:

...you're going against the vast majority.

I think such a statement requires justification. I'm going against a vocal hate group, that's for sure. But many love the prequels, then and now.

[Astech 1,540]

Just now, Verlaine said:

I think such a statement requires justification. I'm going against a vocal hate group, that's for sure. But many love the prequels, then and now.

I'm among them, but that vocal group is wide and varied. They also make good points like, for instance, 'Aniiiiieee!'...

[Verlaine 1,647]

5 minutes ago, Astech said:

I'm among them, but that vocal group is wide and varied. They also make good points like, for instance, 'Aniiiiieee!'...

I understand that that is very convincing for a certain type of person, but I'm just indifferent to it, shrug it off and enjoy Star Wars.

[Astech 1,540]

1 minute ago, Verlaine said:

I understand that that is very convincing for a certain type of person, but I'm just indifferent to it, shrug it off and enjoy Star Wars.

Eh...

To the original question, which Movie(s) after RotJ was better than Rogue One, and for what reasons?

[Verlaine 1,647]

Just now, Astech said:

Eh...

To the original question, which Movie(s) after RotJ was better than Rogue One, and for what reasons?

I've only seen Rogue One once, so my opinion is hardly settled. RotS was certainly better; the story was more ambitious, it was thematically stronger and had better visual storytelling. TPM also beats Rogue One in these categories, I suspect. AotC is a kind of pastiche of themes and tales, which is close to Rogue One's hard-to-follow plot.

But RotS is really in a category of its own compared to the rest of Star Wars. The finale is a major achievement in film, as grand in scope as some famous composer's magnum opus; Wagner's Ring, Schubert's Winterreise, etc.  The list of themes it contains is long and it is all symphonically integrated in one flowing piece, really overwhelming the viewer with sounds and images. It's an experience I had with 2001, but no other film, and even 2001 didn't touch on so many themes. So Revenge of the Sith really pushed the limit in what is creatively possible in this genre. And boy do I love it. The film itself is a great antidote against the stupidity of those who think that pointing at some fictitious majority  helps whatever case they're making against it.

@markcsoul

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

I love the prequels for the memes...

[Astech 1,540]

10 hours ago, Verlaine said:

I've only seen Rogue One once, so my opinion is hardly settled. RotS was certainly better; the story was more ambitious, it was thematically stronger and had better visual storytelling. TPM also beats Rogue One in these categories, I suspect. AotC is a kind of pastiche of themes and tales, which is close to Rogue One's hard-to-follow plot.

But RotS is really in a category of its own compared to the rest of Star Wars. The finale is a major achievement in film, as grand in scope as some famous composer's magnum opus; Wagner's Ring, Schubert's Winterreise, etc.  The list of themes it contains is long and it is all symphonically integrated in one flowing piece, really overwhelming the viewer with sounds and images. It's an experience I had with 2001, but no other film, and even 2001 didn't touch on so many themes. So Revenge of the Sith really pushed the limit in what is creatively possible in this genre. And boy do I love it.

@markcsoul

If you read the novel Catalyst (by James Luceno), you'll find that there is an enormous amount of subtext to Rogue One that is largely overlooked. In particular, the interactions between Krennic, Tarkin and Galen as their pawn. I don't think TPM can hold up to rogue one, mainly because of Jar-Jar's wasted screen time, and and overall 'just-good' plot compared to a dynamic one.

RotS was certainly a brilliant film, but it isn't without flaws. The whole romance was quite forced, and "losing the will to live" only works because the plot wants it to. The finale was well-executed, but then again, so was Rogue One's. I think RotS is a great film, but that Rogue One is better for its own reasons.

Quote

The film itself is a great antidote against the stupidity of those who think that pointing at some fictitious majority  helps whatever case they're making against it.

The majority is real, but very few people hate the prequels, most just argue the classics are better. It seems you're trying to make a definitive statement about the quality of RotS in comparison to RO, but every viewer likes different movies for their own reasons.

[DampfGecko 571]

18 hours ago, Astech said:

If you read the novel Catalyst (by James Luceno)[...]

Come on, a movie has to be able to stand on its own.  

Fortunately, Rogue One usually does. I mean, come on, that initial interaction between Krennic and Galen has more facets than basically any dialogue in the prequels. It's full of subtle hints that just get reinforced by Catalyst. The prequels have some merit in that regard, but the art direction and writing are usually so on the nose that it takes away many avenues of interpretation.

However, speaking of visual storytelling done right- have we ever gotten any representation of the balance of power this good since the origninal Star Destroyer fly-by?

Edited July 30, 2017 by DampfGecko
Forgetfulness (see below)

[markcsoul 2,135]

1 hour ago, DampfGecko said:

However, speaking of visual storytelling done right- have we ever gotten any representation of the balance of power since the origninal Star Destroyer fly-by?

Well in TESB they kind of copy it by showing the normal star destroyers being eclipsed by the super star destroyer.

A more original one is in TPM with the "always a bigger fish" sequence.

I could list at least one example of great use of scale for every sw movie probably but don't want to take the time.

[DampfGecko 571]

4 hours ago, markcsoul said:

Well in TESB they kind of copy it by showing the normal star destroyers being eclipsed by the super star destroyer.

A more original one is in TPM with the "always a bigger fish" sequence.

I could list at least one example of great use of scale for every sw movie probably but don't want to take the time.

I meant between Rebellion and Empire, but the comparison with that fish line is amazing.

Shoul've also written "this good"

Edited July 30, 2017 by DampfGecko

[Verlaine 1,647]

19 hours ago, Astech said:

The whole romance was quite forced, and "losing the will to live" only works because the plot wants it to.

That's a bit like saying the scenery in Dogville was bad because it didn't look like a village.

[Kassill 4]

For me, the more I think about it Rogue One really steps up to the plate in easily being top 3 movie material for SW. It fills gaps that were created by my personal favorite, A New Hope, and really is like some have said, a gritty war movie set in the SW universe. The humor was kept to a minimum, and the attention to detail and the brilliant shots of archival footage blended with newer scenes just gives me goosebumps every single time. 

If I had to criticize anything, it would be the almost necessary inclusion of yet another Tatooine-esque planet and the fact that Saw really doesn't contribute much past a few minutes of emotional support, sort of...

[Ravncat 1,989]

On 2017/6/25 at 5:21 AM, Iceeagle85 said:

While the Vader scene is awesome the problem is he could have easily grabbed the guy with the disc with his force powers but that wouldn't fit A New Hope nad that was something I disliked about the movie.

They were showing an awesome Vader, stabbing, grabbing, throwing guys but he is unable to stop the one/two guys with the plans, seriously? For me at least that is a little unbelievable.

I don't think it makes sense for Vader to know that a guy in the dim-lit halls has a small disk in his hand, he doesn't wave it and say look what I have. I'd agree with you if Vader knew one of those guys was actually carrying the plans. Why would vader know who has the plans or where they are - since he is only aware that they were transmitted to the ship.

If we assume vader doesn't know, then it makes sense that Vader is focused on all the combat guys, cutting them down.  I love how vader rips open the jammed door with the force as if it was no trouble at all.