Why Rogue One is THE Best Star Wars Film Since Return Of The Jedi

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

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[SEApocalypse 4,443]

By this logic, I fear we most rate TPM as the best star wars movie ever. Everyone was more hyped about just holding the CDs with the cheap cam rips in their hands than those guys were over the Vader scene. And then came duel of fates and hyped them even more. ;-)

[Iceeagle85 495]

While the Vader scene is awesome the problem is he could have easily grabbed the guy with the disc with his force powers but that wouldn't fit A New Hope nad that was something I disliked about the movie.

They were showing an awesome Vader, stabbing, grabbing, throwing guys but he is unable to stop the one/two guys with the plans, seriously? For me at least that is a little unbelievable.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Iceeagle85

[Hobojebus 11,341]

First two thirds were boring and the third act good as it was can't make up for the bland uninteresting characters and needless world hopping there only to pad the run time.

I didn't care about the human rebels and felt nothing about their ultimate fate.

Ultimately the directors fault he had the same issue with monsters and Godzilla.

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

6 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

I didn't care about the human rebels and felt nothing about their ultimate fate.

Possibly says more about you than it does about the film Hobo. It's not the director's fault you lack empathy!

[Hobojebus 11,341]

I felt for the robot, watching big hero six beymax almost had a tear out of me.

I feel empathy for well done characters but rogue one didn't have that they were assassins murderers and terrorists I could feel no connection with.

Solo is a smuggler but you never get the sense he's a bad guy just a guy doing what he must to get by, by contrast the rebels are scum bags it was impossible to see them as good guys.

It can be done well look at the dirty dozen or the magnificent seven, shady characters finding a higher purpose and meeting a Nobel end.

You should never feel happy to see the heroes being taken down but I did watching rogue one they were mass murderers getting justice after a life killing people who didn't deserve it.

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

10 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

First two thirds were boring and the third act good as it was can't make up for the bland uninteresting characters and needless world hopping there only to pad the run time.

I didn't care about the human rebels and felt nothing about their ultimate fate.

Ultimately the directors fault he had the same issue with monsters and Godzilla.

I feel that is where the reshoots really hurt that movie. I will still watch it for the finale, but oh man does that movie wear its production history on it face.

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

15 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

By this logic, I fear we most rate TPM as the best star wars movie ever. Everyone was more hyped about just holding the CDs with the cheap cam rips in their hands than those guys were over the Vader scene. And then came duel of fates and hyped them even more. ;-)

See, having been around for the cinematic release of Return of the Jedi, I can remember people cheering the announcement of the prequels, and cheering the opening crawl for The Phantom Menace, and cheering when they picked up the DVD having not seen the film.  But I don't remember anyone cheering at the end of the film.

I remember lots of confusion and puzzzled looks, but not much in the way of applause or cheering.

12 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

First two thirds were boring and the third act good as it was can't make up for the bland uninteresting characters and needless world hopping there only to pad the run time.  I didn't care about the humans and felt nothing about their ultimate fate.

Could quite easily apply this statement to any or all of the prequels.

2 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

You should never feel happy to see the heroes being taken down but I did watching rogue one they were mass murderers getting justice after a life killing people who didn't deserve it.

Again, you can just as easily apply that line of thinking to the prequels.  The Jedi were stupid.  They trained their own downfall, couldn't spot the evil amongst them and cost millions of lives in the process.  Nothing you've said here comes close to refuting my statement that Rogue One is THE best Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi, Hobo, 

[SEApocalypse 4,443]

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

See, having been around for the cinematic release of Return of the Jedi, I can remember people cheering the announcement of the prequels, and cheering the opening crawl for The Phantom Menace, and cheering when they picked up the DVD having not seen the film.  But I don't remember anyone cheering at the end of the film.

If you don't remember anyone cheering after the film, you seem to have some repression in place. People came out of the cinema claiming that TPM was the best star wars movie ever
And to be fair to them, the film ended with the best lightsaber "duel" of the whole franchise … at least to most people, personally I prefer jedi, empire and even ANH over the acrobatic, inefficient style of the prequels, but that seems to be just me.

Now for the boring characters, which we don't care …I don't think that this applies on the same level to TPM. TPM and the prequels has plenty of sources of annoyance about the characters and how they act, but indifference applies imo mainly to the villains of the movie, while our anger about whiny anni for example comes from the fact that we do care about the characters. 

The jedi were indeed stupid, the prequels make a good point about this and show the order as something that should fall, they fail in making use feel emphatic to Anakin's decisions, he comes off has a whiny jerk (that gets actually solved in The Clone Wars), but it works quite well Obi-Wan as contrast point to the failing jedi, in the animated series we get a lot more backstory for individual jedi characters, which turns a weak order 66 death scene into some actually tragic. But yeah, in many ways the prequels are indeed guilty of the same thing. Never a good thing when your movie makes similar mistakes to the prequel mistakes.

Be it like it is, RO's biggest sin is imho, that the movie itself is boring. The space battle was cool, but they played everything in the most predictable way, which might be the reason why the Vader scene got so much positive feedback, it's the one thing which actually surprises the audience to see, even when the man in the black suit is giving is merely a spectacle and actually ignoring his objective for the most part. So the scene itself is not aimed at telling a story, but at just showing some spectacle. Another weakness shared with the prequel movies. ;-)

Edited June 25, 2017 by SEApocalypse

[DampfGecko 571]

I'd say the reason the third act hit home as well as it did was BECAUSE of what the film built up to before. Rogue One did a terrific job actually depicting people tackling political issues that are far beyond the point of peaceful solutions. The film opened up the Star Wars Universe in ways it has not been done on the big screen before- by providing a tangible baseline functionality of the universe. 

We saw the Tarkin Doctrine in action. We got the most impressive Death Star scene since Alderaan, if ever. Krennic, to my mind, is one of the if not the best non-force Imperial in Star Wars save for Thrawn and Pellaeon, as he is not just always cynical and quick-thinking, but also provides excellent understanding just why he is still in way over his head. His interactions with Tarkin and Vader brilliantly provide context to the difference in not just power, but simple unterstanding of the inner workings of the Empire that put them apart from the upstart military director and his *ahem* "aspirations". Most importantly, however, the Empire is finally presented as a credible threat again, as their short reaction times and sheer potential for military force projection constantly force the Rebels' hands.

At this point I should probably admit that I am not a particularly fond of overuse of the force. This and my enjoyment of the Military Sci-Fi aspects of Star Wars just provided all kinds of pleasant surprises. The fantastic Vader scene is the icing on the cake- because they did not overuse him. Instead, they used the time they had to paint the rebels as far more fractured and morally grey than before, an aspect that has often been sorely lacking. And quite contrary to the prequels, Rogue One brilliantly fits in with the OT.

I will not pretend as if Rogue is above its flaws. The pacing issues have been discussed at length, Saw Guerrera and his partisans are less fleshed out than I'd like, among others, and I'm sure that the characters, detached and dulled by the war as they are, while quite interesting to me personally, may feel distinctly un-starwars-y to many. But to judge the movie on its brilliant space battle alone would do the movie a massive disservice.

Rogue One steers away heavily from the "space adventure" profile we have had so far, and consequently sheds a more serious and brutal light on the galaxy far, far away, with characters to match. For some, this may well be sucking the fun out of it- to me, it means providing depth and complexity on an atmospherically intense and thematically fitting level, which is much appreciated.

Tl;dr: Rogue One has great action, sure- but it is great precisely because the film set up the stakes brilliantly beforehand.

[markcsoul 2,135]

Best film since sith for me.

And speaking of cool reaction videos...

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by markcsoul

[Vellcrow 101]

I loved Rogue One.  It's possibly the best Star Wars movie for me.  However, I think the biggest issue was not so much the theatrical release, but the idea of what could have been.

The first trailer, along with the teaser, showed so much that was never in the film.  After some research, I found that the original storyline and character backgrounds would have made for a better movie.

Jyn being a Rebel Alliance sergeant, Saw wanting her to stay out of the fight, plus all the scenes that show a different story than what we got...yes, the reshoots hurt the film.  Hey Hollywood, don't show me any more stuff that I won't get to see in the movie!  Doesn't Rogue One hold the record for the number of things in a trailer that never make I to the big screen?

Overall, Rogue One satisfies immensely.  I just wish I had never seen the shiny bits in the trailer that were just false advertising.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

See, having been around for the cinematic release of Return of the Jedi, I can remember people cheering the announcement of the prequels, and cheering the opening crawl for The Phantom Menace, and cheering when they picked up the DVD having not seen the film.  But I don't remember anyone cheering at the end of the film.

I remember lots of confusion and puzzzled looks, but not much in the way of applause or cheering.

Could quite easily apply this statement to any or all of the prequels.

Again, you can just as easily apply that line of thinking to the prequels.  The Jedi were stupid.  They trained their own downfall, couldn't spot the evil amongst them and cost millions of lives in the process.  Nothing you've said here comes close to refuting my statement that Rogue One is THE best Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi, Hobo, 

Yeah and I hate the prequel films they are garbage movies with terrible scripts bad acting and poor direction.

I don't hate rogue one its just very average.

[drunkensith 104]

55 minutes ago, Vellcrow said:

I loved Rogue One.  It's possibly the best Star Wars movie for me.  However, I think the biggest issue was not so much the theatrical release, but the idea of what could have been.

The first trailer, along with the teaser, showed so much that was never in the film.  After some research, I found that the original storyline and character backgrounds would have made for a better movie.

Jyn being a Rebel Alliance sergeant, Saw wanting her to stay out of the fight, plus all the scenes that show a different story than what we got...yes, the reshoots hurt the film.  Hey Hollywood, don't show me any more stuff that I won't get to see in the movie!  Doesn't Rogue One hold the record for the number of things in a trailer that never make I to the big screen?

Overall, Rogue One satisfies immensely.  I just wish I had never seen the shiny bits in the trailer that were just false advertising.

the first couple teasers for the force awakens had a bumch of things that never showed up in the film

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

No scene in Star Wars gave me chills before that one. Still good. Maybe the best.

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Just now, TasteTheRainbow said:

No scene in Star Wars gave me chills before that one. Still good. Maybe the best.

Yup, same here.  And the use of archive footage for the X-Wing pilots was inspired.

Also, this Edrio and Benthic:

Probably one of the best alien character designs in the entire series.

[Iceeagle85 495]

One more thing, isn't Spaceballs considered the best Star Wars movie ever? 

[Frimmel 2,593]

The Vader scene is why everyone forgives Rogue One for its mediocrity.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Frimmel

[Celestial Lizards 2,222]

5 hours ago, Frimmel said:

The Vader scene is why everyone forgives Rogue One for its mediocrity.

You honestly didn't like the story? Jyn and K2SO have more chemistry then Padme and Ani. And about as much as Chewie and Han did.

[Frimmel 2,593]

12 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

You honestly didn't like the story? Jyn and K2SO have more chemistry then Padme and Ani. And about as much as Chewie and Han did.

The general story concept is fine. The space battle is pretty good (despite the distracting footage from Star Wars) and despite the shaky-cam so is the Vader ending. The execution overall is off.

The movie isn't about stealing the Death Star plans. We as an audience don't care about that so much. The plans are the Macguffin. But the film-makers themselves got distracted by it. You can also see all the fan service added and chief amongst it is the ending with Vader. I did not like K2SO or Jyn particularly. It felt like the movie was trying to be a cynical war picture and then they changed stream and tried to make a rah-rah war picture ("Full Metal Jacket" turning into "The Green Berets.")

If I didn't play X-wing and see the cards I don't think I'd know the names of any of the characters not Tarkin or Vader or Mon Mothma in the movie at this point. I didn't care about most of the characters. They were meant to be a motley band in the vein of "Kelly's Heroes" or "Dirty Dozen" or any of those sorts of war pictures but they just missed the mark all the way around (although I don't think that is particularly the fault of the actors but script/direction/editing.) As the picture headed towards its climax I knew how it was going to end. 

Without the Vader ending or rather James Bond style pre-credits prologue to "Star Wars"" that is one bummer of an ending. 

The film also bodes ill for these anthology movies. They're not going to be allowed to do anything new in them. They're just going to be really expensive fan service. 

Final Verdict: It doesn't suck but it isn't very good either. 

[Frimmel 2,593]

See also this story related to the Han Solo flick. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-han-solo-movie-firing-new-details-behind-phil-lord-chris-miller-exit-1016619?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It supports the changing stream and not do anything new comments I made, "Edwards, who conceived of Rogue One as a dark war film, was shunted aside; and now this. For all the talk of hiring filmmakers with their own vision, observers say Kennedy and Disney may be learning that the franchise is defined by a particular set of parameters."

Seems to me Kennedy had illusions of being artistic but they're just going to make another MCU with this stuff. Which isn't a bad thing but... *** shrug *** 

[ViscerothSWG 3,940]

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

If I didn't play X-wing and see the cards I don't think I'd know the names of any of the characters not Tarkin or Vader or Mon Mothma in the movie at this point.

I've seen it twice and can't remember most names yet. That's no different than anyone that saw the original star wars. Have you seen the Mark Hamil appearance on the Muppet Show just after Star Wars? They say the movie character names about 30 times in 8 minutes on screen to remind everyone what people and droids are called. Name recognition comes through merchandising, and takes time. I'm sure kids with the action figures know all their names already.   ...I used to know every Joe on G.I.Joe, and had most of their toys. My parents were relatively clueless.

I'm just saying, that isn't a detriment to the film to not remember all the names yet. I remember there was a badass blind guy with a bff that had a big gun, and a snarky robot. That's enough to remember the movie fondly at this point. And in time I'll have used their names enough to remember them..

[Hobojebus 11,341]

In general if you can't remember character names after the first viewing then the film failed to make characters you care about.

I can having watched Logan only once name you the important players no problem, same with Dr strange and I've never read that comic.

I can't even name the robot from rogue one and thats the one character I liked.

A good director could of made it work but as monsters and Godzilla showed he sucks at making interesting human characters.

I wanted that kid from Godzilla to die on that bridge so badly just so he'd stop cutting away from the **** monsters, that family killed that movie dead every time they appeared.

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

1 hour ago, Hobojebus said:

I can't even name the robot from rogue one and thats the one character I liked.

Possibly says more about you than it does about the film Hobo. It's not the director's fault you have attention deficit disorder!

K2-S0 is even mentioned by name in this very topic.  If you still can't name him, then it's through sheer bloody-mindedness.