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Schneeky

2 Rules Questions

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Hello all,

 

Was hoping you could help me out with two questions.

Firstly: The skeleton mass pictured below has been doing a straight charge, how does it properly square up from this point? It has come into contact with the oathsworn cavalry located in the top right of the photo and hasn't come in contact yet with the spear-men block located in the bottom left.

 

594d23d1a16dc_RunewarsPhoto.JPG.6485c8cca7ed944b3df152593c1318c8.JPG

Secondly: Does Aggressive Cornicen allow me to make a turn into a charge? Let's say I have a speed 3 march with a -1 turn modifier on my dial. Does it allow me to make that speed 2 turn into a charge, or does it simply still allow me to replace the turn and do a speed 3 forward charge? Thanks a bunch!

 

 Rwm05 card aggressive-cornicen

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I would say you've collided with Oathsworn, and can't square up front edge because of spearmen so would square up side edge, flanking each other.  

Aggressive cornicen modifies march as charge, which is additional modified with turn, so I think yes, it counts as a charge.

I will be interested to hear what the rules lawyers say on these two points.

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38 minutes ago, Ywingscum said:

I would say you've collided with Oathsworn, and can't square up front edge because of spearmen so would square up side edge, flanking each other.  

Aggressive cornicen modifies march as charge, which is additional modified with turn, so I think yes, it counts as a charge.

I will be interested to hear what the rules lawyers say on these two points.

I think you're right on except for one detail. "Flanking" is a specific game term for when one unit (the flanking unit) has its front edge touching any edge except the front edge of the flanked unit. In this case, no unit's front edge is touching the other unit, so they are not flanking. This means they do not get to add an extra die to their attack rolls against each other, and they do not lose their ability to reroll dice for having extra ranks beyond the front rank.

A little more detail about the squaring up in this situation:
1) Pivot around the Renimates' corner
2) When your back corner hits the Spearmen, stop
3) Slide the corner in contact with the Cavalry away from the Spearmen until you can pivot around that corner without hitting the Spearmen (In this case, this is impossible because the Reanimates are so large. Maybe with 2 or even 3 trays in the front, they would have been able to fit if you slid their contact point away from the Spearmen.)
4) If you still cannot square up, try pivoting the other direction (This, you can resolve easily. It leaves the Reanimates touching side-to-side to the Oathsworn Cavalry.)
5) If you cannot square up that way, either, then you just stay in the position you originally were in when you collided

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Agressive cornicen just makes your march also count as a charge.  That's in addition to whatever it was already modified with and your dials have nothing to do with that effect.

 

You would try to square up to the cavalry.  If you can't (because you'd be touching the spearmen) then I believe the rule is that you are considered to be engaged to the cavalry via your front edge, but you just leave the unit where it's at.

EDIT: Actually, this is what you do:

RR 77.1: "To square up his unit, the player pivots his unit around the point of contact with the enemy unit until the squaring-up unit’s front edge is parallel with the enemy unit’s contacted edge for that engagement. Then, the player slides the squaringup unit in either direction of his choice along the contacted edge, stopping at the first opportunity for the trays of the moving unit to be aligned with the trays of the enemy unit.

• The trays of two units are aligned when the edges of trays—or seams between trays—of the first unit that are perpendicular to its contacted edge line up and are parallel with the edges of trays—or seams between trays—of the second unit that are perpendicular to its contacted edge (i.e. the edges and seams of the units’ trays form a grid)."

As you're pivoting you'll it an obstacle (that being the spearmen) so we move to 77.3

RR 77.3: "If a moving unit would collide with another obstacle while squaring up, players resolve one of the following based on the orientation of the units in that collision:

• Edge Collision: If the moving unit collided with an enemy unit’s edge, slide the moving unit so that the contact point moves in either direction along the enemy unit’s contacted edge until the obstacle is out of the way. Then, the moving unit continues squaring up as normal.

• Corner Collision: If the moving unit collided with an enemy unit’s corner, slide the moving unit in either direction such that its edge stays in contact with the enemy unit’s corner until the obstacle is out of the way. If this does not get the obstacle out of the way, the moving unit can attempt to pivot around the corner in the other direction. Then, the moving unit continues squaring up as normal.

• Repeat these resolutions for any additional obstacles. Then, if it is still impossible for the moving unit to square up without colliding with an obstacle, the unit cannot square up and it is returned to the position it was in when it collided; the two units are still touching and are thus still engaged.

• If, after revealing its command tool, an active unit is engaged with a single enemy unit but not aligned with that enemy, the active unit attempts to square up with that enemy unit."

So here, you would concern yourself with the 'Edge Collision' case.  

Pivot the reanimates where they are until they're in as full a contact as possible with the oathsworn. This leaves you overlapping the spearmen.  You would have to live them up in order to show this (it's much easier when the obstacle is just terrain), so to avoid inconvenience just imagine them overlapping.  Then, slide the reanimates up (and away from the spearmen) along the oathsworn's edge until they no longer overlap the spearmen AND IF POSSIBLE also align with the oathsworn.  The end result of this is that the reanimates will probably end up contacting the oathsworn with their middle 2 front trays. 

That's what I get from this anyway.

Edited by Willange

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It seems like it depends whether a unit can transition from 'edge collision' to 'corner collision' during the squaring-up process. The steps, in order, should be:

  • Pivot around the point of contact with the Oathsworn until you touch the Spearmen
  • Slide the Reanimates along the edge of the Oathsworn, towards the front corner of the unit
  • Continue pivoting the Reanimates towards the Oathsworn, sliding as necessary
  • Once you reach the front corner of the Oathsworn, you either
    a) give up, move the Reanimates back to their original position, and treat them as touching or
    b) slide the Reanimates along the Oathsworn's front corner until they clear the spearmen and can successfully pivot into contact

I imagine b is the correct interpretation, but technically the Reanimates did not collide with a corner so it wouldn't apply.

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9 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

It seems like it depends whether a unit can transition from 'edge collision' to 'corner collision' during the squaring-up process. The steps, in order, should be:

  • Pivot around the point of contact with the Oathsworn until you touch the Spearmen
  • Slide the Reanimates along the edge of the Oathsworn, towards the front corner of the unit
  • Continue pivoting the Reanimates towards the Oathsworn, sliding as necessary
  • Once you reach the front corner of the Oathsworn, you either
    a) give up, move the Reanimates back to their original position, and treat them as touching or
    b) slide the Reanimates along the Oathsworn's front corner until they clear the spearmen and can successfully pivot into contact

I imagine b is the correct interpretation, but technically the Reanimates did not collide with a corner so it wouldn't apply.

I'm pretty sure it's b as well.  I think that initial pivot is meant to be 'collision free' in that you are just lining things up.  After that, you slide more as necessary to be free of collisions.

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I  think I was wrong. I mixed up edge-collision and corner-collision. I don't think turning so that your side is against their's is an option. You'd just stop where you collided. If you reveal your command tool and the Spearmen had moved, you could square up.

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Rule 77.3 is indeed the correct rule to apply and the relevant part would be the edge collision. It is clear however that even applying the methodology suggested you still cannot avoid the Spearmen when attempting to square up and as such you would remain as shown in your picture.

Since you fight as though you had been able to square up; you would count as Flanking with a threat of 4 and 2 sets of re-rolls for ranks.

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8 hours ago, stet2 said:

Rule 77.3 is indeed the correct rule to apply and the relevant part would be the edge collision. It is clear however that even applying the methodology suggested you still cannot avoid the Spearmen when attempting to square up and as such you would remain as shown in your picture.

Since you fight as though you had been able to square up; you would count as Flanking with a threat of 4 and 2 sets of re-rolls for ranks.

This is correct.  You can only slide your corner along their edge until you reach their front corner and the Spearmen are still in the way.  So you go to your original position.  Because you would square up your front edge if able, you are treated as having your front edge along their side.

The next time EITHER UNIT activates, as long as nothing else has engaged them, they must attempt to square up.  This means if the cavalry activate before the reanimates activate again, they will square up side to side.  The reanimates wouldn't be able to square up until the Spearmen are gone.

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